shifting too soon in Type-S deadly?

write2here.RemoveThis@hotmail.com wrote in news:1178663696.155572.256540
@u30g2000hsc.googlegroups.com:

> Hello All,
>
> Tried looking to see if this question was every asked before but
> couldn't find an answer, so I'll ask it now.
>
> A friend of mine (and self-proclaimed manual-speed know it all)
> constantly criticizes my shifting habits telling me I'm killing my
> transmission...which I find dubious since my old car (94 Probe GT) is
> still on original clutch with over 160K and never had a speck of
> transmission problems throughout its still-continuing life.


Cool. But 160K isn't very much these days, and how do you know there's
no damage? Can you tell what bearing noise sounds like?


>
> Have an '06 Type S with approx. 25K on it. Love it...and so much so, I
> try not to "beat on" the engine (wish I had another Type S so I could
> really put it through its paces). To do this I don't push the engine
> all that much when I shift, and therefore often skip gears proceeding
> through to 6th. Sometimes I'll shift 1 to 3 to 5 to 6.



Bad. This tears up the synchros. Go through the gears properly. If you
don't like shifting, you should have bought an automatic.



> Other times
> from a stop sign (if slightly rolling through it...shhh, don't tell
> any one) I'll go 2 to 4 to 6 sometimes. I'll occasionally downshift to
> slow car down (mixed with braking),



Proper "downshifting" does not involve the brakes, and does not cause
any sort of jerks or bumps as you let the clutch out.


> and usually coast into turns
> adjusting shift afterwards for putting less torque-stress on the
> engine as well.


But adding side-load on the tranny bearings, plus hammering the engine
crank and connecting rod bearings.

Why did you buy a manual again?


>
> In general I'll also try and always cruise in 6th even at 30 to 35
> mph...as long there's nowhere near the too -low-rpm -sputtering that
> would make the engine die.



Not good. This is called "lugging". Major long-term engine bearing
damage. Why did you buy a manual in the first place?



> Rarely do my RPM ever exceed 5000!
> Occasionaly but not all that much.


It ought to, at least once in a while. If you putter around like an old
man all the time, soft carbon deposits can accumulate, holding valves
open, causing driveability problems and valve burning. And that's quite
expensive.


>
> According to my friend, I'm ruining the transmission by not following
> the when-to-shift speeds according to the manual. I'm having a hard
> time agreeing with him.


*He* isn't right, *HONDA* is right.

Do you think Honda put those specifications in the manual for fun? Or
just for something to fill up pages with?


>
> Is he correct? Or are my conservative shifting habits guaranteeing my
> beloved Type-S's transmission a slow death?


Yep. You want 300K out of your tranny? Observe the manual's directives.
And change the tranny oil every 30K miles, with Honda MTF.

Manual transmissions are for people who like shifting and exploring the
interaction of man and machine. If you want the shifter to be as
unobtrusive as possible, you should have got an automatic.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
 >> Stay informed about: shifting too soon in Type-S deadly? 

"Neal Hudson" <nealwh.DeleteThis@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:2f80i.2025$zj3.456@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net:

> You sure are NOT helping your car any......there is a reason for all
> those gears.



Yeah, power and acceleration. Has nothing to do with tranny life.



--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
 >> Stay informed about: shifting too soon in Type-S deadly? 

Tegger <tegger.RemoveThis@tegger.c0m> wrote in
news:Xns992AD3C3DC4CDtegger@207.14.116.130:

> "Neal Hudson" <nealwh.RemoveThis@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
> news:2f80i.2025$zj3.456@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net:
>
>> You sure are NOT helping your car any......there is a reason for all
>> those gears.
>
>
>
> Yeah, power and acceleration. Has nothing to do with tranny life.
>
>
>

Skipping gears does wear the synchros more.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
 >> Stay informed about: shifting too soon in Type-S deadly? 

Jim Yanik <jyanik.RemoveThis@abuse.gov> wrote in news:Xns992AEB839FA9jyanikkuanet@
64.209.0.84:

> Tegger <tegger.RemoveThis@tegger.c0m> wrote in
> news:Xns992AD3C3DC4CDtegger@207.14.116.130:
>
>> "Neal Hudson" <nealwh.RemoveThis@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
>> news:2f80i.2025$zj3.456@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net:
>>
>>> You sure are NOT helping your car any......there is a reason for all
>>> those gears.
>>
>>
>>
>> Yeah, power and acceleration. Has nothing to do with tranny life.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Skipping gears does wear the synchros more.
>


Sure does. Even Honda said so in a recent issue of Honda Service News.

Earlier I meant to say that the number of gears has to do with power and
acceleration, not tranny life.

--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
 >> Stay informed about: shifting too soon in Type-S deadly? 

ACAR <dimndsonmywndshld DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in
news:1178740512.816592.228130@y5g2000hsa.googlegroups.com:


>
>
> Someone should pass this vital information to GM, whose Corvette comes
> standard with a device that FORCES the driver to shift from 1st to 4th
> under slow acceleration situations.



Have you considered that GM might have explicitly designed the
transmission to survive that? Honda did not.


>
> Skipping gears when accelerating slowly and done smoothly can't be
> that harmful.
> Just about everyone I know who has a 5 or 6 speed skips
> gears on a routine basis.



The Honda Service News issue I mentioned warns mechanics to check for
skip-shifting if a car comes in with shifting problems.




--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
 >> Stay informed about: shifting too soon in Type-S deadly? 

On Wed, 9 May 2007 21:44:39 +0000 (UTC), Tegger <tegger RemoveThis @tegger.c0m>
wrote:

>ACAR <dimndsonmywndshld RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in
>news:1178740512.816592.228130@y5g2000hsa.googlegroups.com:
>
>> Someone should pass this vital information to GM, whose Corvette comes
>> standard with a device that FORCES the driver to shift from 1st to 4th
>> under slow acceleration situations.
>
>Have you considered that GM might have explicitly designed the
>transmission to survive that? Honda did not.

I believe that the GM forced shift of which you speak is done only
when the engine is below operating temperature, and is a trick to get
it past emissions regulations under such conditions.

Whether or not the transmission is designed to handle it is kind of
moot. IMHFO anyone who 'gets on' an engine and transmission before
its oil is up to operating temperature deserves all he/she gets.
--
Dan.
 >> Stay informed about: shifting too soon in Type-S deadly? 

On May 9, 6:48 pm, Dean Dark <ddr....DeleteThis@comcast.notthis.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 9 May 2007 21:44:39 +0000 (UTC), Tegger <teg....DeleteThis@tegger.c0m>
> wrote:
>
> >ACAR <dimndsonmywnds....DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in
> >news:1178740512.816592.228130@y5g2000hsa.googlegroups.com:
>
> >> Someone should pass this vital information to GM, whose Corvette comes
> >> standard with a device that FORCES the driver to shift from 1st to 4th
> >> under slow acceleration situations.
>
> >Have you considered that GM might have explicitly designed the
> >transmission to survive that? Honda did not.
>
> I believe that the GM forced shift of which you speak is done only
> when the engine is below operating temperature, and is a trick to get
> it past emissions regulations under such conditions.

Nope, it is not temperature dependent.

>
> Whether or not the transmission is designed to handle it is kind of
> moot. IMHFO anyone who 'gets on' an engine and transmission before
> its oil is up to operating temperature deserves all he/she gets.

The Corvette prevents this, as do other high performance cars.


> --
> Dan.
 >> Stay informed about: shifting too soon in Type-S deadly? 

On May 9, 5:44 pm, Tegger <teg....TakeThisOut@tegger.c0m> wrote:
> ACAR <dimndsonmywnds....TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote innews:1178740512.816592.228130@y5g2000hsa.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
> > Someone should pass this vital information to GM, whose Corvette comes
> > standard with a device that FORCES the driver to shift from 1st to 4th
> > under slow acceleration situations.
>
> Have you considered that GM might have explicitly designed the
> transmission to survive that? Honda did not.
>
Do I believe the Corvette trans. is built to withstand more abuse than
a Honda manual trans.? Yup, esp. 1st and 2nd gear.
>
>
> > Skipping gears when accelerating slowly and done smoothly can't be
> > that harmful.
> > Just about everyone I know who has a 5 or 6 speed skips
> > gears on a routine basis.
>
> The Honda Service News issue I mentioned warns mechanics to check for
> skip-shifting if a car comes in with shifting problems.

While I believe what you are saying, I often skip gears in my '89
Legend with over 210K miles and have had zero trans. problems. Other
owners I know report similar experiences. Oh yeah, I used to skip
shift my '72 Porsche, my old Audi and Integra, too. No trans. problem
with any of these.

Having driven with other, shall we say less mechanically inclined
drivers, may I say that Honda is probably on the right track but
they've taken a wrong turn. LOTS of Honda manual trans. drivers
DOWNSHIFT without attempting to blip the throttle via heel/toe or
double clutching. There's the wear, they're using the clutch and
trans. for braking. I have a hard time buying into the Honda line that
skipping gears while gently accelerating is causing any damage. Sure,
if you force the gear change, you're gonna cause damage. But for the
most part, Honda is blowing smoke to cover up a weak trans. design,
IMHO.

>
> --
> Tegger
>
> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQwww.tegger.com/hondafaq/
 >> Stay informed about: shifting too soon in Type-S deadly? 

write2here.DeleteThis@hotmail.com wrote in
news:1178753776.056631.313610@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com:


>
> About the awareness of knowing what one's engine doesn't like? Have
> always liked to think I had a good sense of that. In my RSX, I rarely
> ever (may just once or twice) have experienced any even slight lugging
> when letting clutch out in lower gears as I shift to higher ones.



Don't let the engine go below 2K rpm after shifting and you're fine.



> Have
> never noticed any lack of "shift quality" when gear skipping either.



You won't notice until the damage is done. And once it's done, the fix is
expensive. Damage takes time; it doesn't happen in a few months.



--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
 >> Stay informed about: shifting too soon in Type-S deadly? 

On 9 May 2007 19:56:46 -0700, ACAR <getoutanpush.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:

>> >> Someone should pass this vital information to GM, whose Corvette comes
>> >> standard with a device that FORCES the driver to shift from 1st to 4th
>> >> under slow acceleration situations.

>> I believe that the GM forced shift of which you speak is done only
>> when the engine is below operating temperature, and is a trick to get
>> it past emissions regulations under such conditions.
>
>Nope, it is not temperature dependent.

OK, I see now that it's not temperature dependent. But it *is* done
for emissions purposes. And there's a straightforward chip mod. to
defeat it.

>> Whether or not the transmission is designed to handle it is kind of
>> moot. IMHFO anyone who 'gets on' an engine and transmission before
>> its oil is up to operating temperature deserves all he/she gets.
>
>The Corvette prevents this, as do other high performance cars.

Only up to a point. I can still abuse a cold engine.
--
Dan.
 >> Stay informed about: shifting too soon in Type-S deadly? 

On May 10, 4:48 am, Dean Dark <ddr....DeleteThis@comcast.notthis.net> wrote:
>
> >Nope, it is not temperature dependent.
>
> OK, I see now that it's not temperature dependent. But it *is* done
> for emissions purposes. And there's a straightforward chip mod. to
> defeat it.

The point being that GM designed the Corvette to skip gears under
light throttle. No trans. damage. And the 1st to 4th feature doesn't
interfere with routine driving.

>
> >> Whether or not the transmission is designed to handle it is kind of
> >> moot. IMHFO anyone who 'gets on' an engine and transmission before
> >> its oil is up to operating temperature deserves all he/she gets.
>
> >The Corvette prevents this, as do other high performance cars.
>
> Only up to a point. I can still abuse a cold engine.

Fine. Maybe the OP can figure out your point. If you are implying that
you need heavy throttle to defeat the Corvette's 1st to 4th skip shift
feature you are incorrect. You don't actually own a Corvette, do you?

> --
> Dan.
 >> Stay informed about: shifting too soon in Type-S deadly? 

On May 11, 5:10 am, Dean Dark <ddr....TakeThisOut@comcast.notthis.net> wrote:
> On 10 May 2007 20:54:53 -0700, ACAR <getoutanp....TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >On May 10, 4:48 am, Dean Dark <ddr....TakeThisOut@comcast.notthis.net> wrote:
>
> >> >Nope, it is not temperature dependent.
>
> >> OK, I see now that it's not temperature dependent. But it *is* done
> >> for emissions purposes. And there's a straightforward chip mod. to
> >> defeat it.
>
> >The point being that GM designed the Corvette to skip gears under
> >light throttle. No trans. damage. And the 1st to 4th feature doesn't
> >interfere with routine driving.
>
> So you think that GM though that a *design* that would force people to
> skip gears would be a neat feature that Corvette drivers would
> *really* like? Hmmmm...
Yeah, that's exactly what I said.
>
> In fact, it's a kludge they had to make late in the game to meet
> regulations. They don't put it that way in the glossy brochure of
> course, they spin it to look like a brilliant design feature that they
> intended all along. And you believed them...
Yeah, that's exactly what I said.

What I said was the skip shift feature does not harm the Corvette
transmission.
Nothing more.
How you care to spin this, well, who knows...
But thanks for the insight re. the skip shift.
And it's to avoid the gas guzzler tax, which is not exactly the same
as meeting regulations.

>
>
>
> >> >The Corvette prevents this, as do other high performance cars.
>
> >> Only up to a point. I can still abuse a cold engine.
>
> >Fine. Maybe the OP can figure out your point. If you are implying that
> >you need heavy throttle to defeat the Corvette's 1st to 4th skip shift
> >feature you are incorrect. You don't actually own a Corvette, do you?
>
> I never said I owned a Corvette. They're OK but they're not my cup of
> tea.
>
> What I actually said, if you read for comprehension, is that there's
> an aftermarket chip mod. to defeat the forced shift. It's simple and
> inexpensive, and all self-respecting Corvette owners have installed
> it.

Sure, they have.
You spend quite a bit of time reading catalogs, don't you?

Yes, I admit, I almost bought the aftermarket part when I first got
the 'Vette but after a short while I discovered that it really wasn't
necessary. However, if I drove it in urban traffic (lots of slow
acceleration) then I'd install it. Happily, that's not my situation.
 >> Stay informed about: shifting too soon in Type-S deadly? 

On 10 May 2007 20:54:53 -0700, ACAR <getoutanpush.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On May 10, 4:48 am, Dean Dark <ddr....TakeThisOut@comcast.notthis.net> wrote:
>>
>> >Nope, it is not temperature dependent.
>>
>> OK, I see now that it's not temperature dependent. But it *is* done
>> for emissions purposes. And there's a straightforward chip mod. to
>> defeat it.
>
>The point being that GM designed the Corvette to skip gears under
>light throttle. No trans. damage. And the 1st to 4th feature doesn't
>interfere with routine driving.

So you think that GM though that a *design* that would force people to
skip gears would be a neat feature that Corvette drivers would
*really* like? Hmmmm...

In fact, it's a kludge they had to make late in the game to meet
regulations. They don't put it that way in the glossy brochure of
course, they spin it to look like a brilliant design feature that they
intended all along. And you believed them...
>
>> >The Corvette prevents this, as do other high performance cars.
>>
>> Only up to a point. I can still abuse a cold engine.
>
>Fine. Maybe the OP can figure out your point. If you are implying that
>you need heavy throttle to defeat the Corvette's 1st to 4th skip shift
>feature you are incorrect. You don't actually own a Corvette, do you?

I never said I owned a Corvette. They're OK but they're not my cup of
tea.

What I actually said, if you read for comprehension, is that there's
an aftermarket chip mod. to defeat the forced shift. It's simple and
inexpensive, and all self-respecting Corvette owners have installed
it.
--
Dan.
 >> Stay informed about: shifting too soon in Type-S deadly?