lexus has a problem

> "2sw" wrote in message
>
> > We bought a 2004 Lexus ES330 new . We looked at Avalon and Camry before
> > we bought. The ES330 is basically the same running gear and engine as
> > the Avalon and the Camry. FWD 3.3 liter 6cyl. It was updated in '04 to
> > 3.3 liters from the previous 3.0 liters (the ES330) The car is a great
> > car, we have the Navigation also and it works reasonably well although
> > can be confusing at times.We have been very happy with the car
> > ....until last Sunday.....
> >
> > Now the bad:
> > While in Las Vegas this last weekend (1-28, 1-29-06) I was driving the
> > car and stopped at a light. The brake pedal then slowly sunk to the
> > floor! Whoa! says I, this ain't right! I pumped the pedal and the brake
> > returned to a normal brake height.

The unasked question: did your car move actually move forward at all?
Perhaps you were stressed out about how much money you lost in Vegas
and were venting your frustrations subconciously by pressing your brake
foot down. Kind've like when you're a passenger and the person who's
driving doesn't seem like they're going to stop in time; you
subconciously push your left foot down on the non-existent right side
brake pedal.


> >At the next light, guess what?... it
> > sunk to the floor again! No brakes!

No brakes as in the "car began to move forward-again"?

Next time when the pedal sinks to the floor, try moving to a safe
location, try to duplicate the condition, transfer your left foot onto
the brake pedal while holding it down to the floor, then try pressing
progressively harder on the accelerator with your right foot to see if
your brakes will hold the car?

Any dealer should use (or quickly acquire) some people skills here. I
checked with a Lexus engineer and confirmed that all brake pedals do sink
slightly while at rest. However, I my opinion, any dealer should recognize
that you don't feel safe, and offer to replace the master cylinder under
warranty. I know the issue is that head office may reject the warranty
claim and the dealer then gets stuck with the bill - and that is likely the
primary problem with the dealer. I would try another dealer and work with
them -- in the dealer's eyes, they should see this is a cheaper fix than a)
losing a Lexus customer for life or b) having to force Lexus to buy back the
vehicle under the lemon law.

If that doesn't work, dribble a little brake fluid onto the underside of the
master cylinder and remove a few teaspoons from the reservoir and then drive
it in to the dealer with the check engine light on.


"2sw" wrote in message

> We bought a 2004 Lexus ES330 new . We looked at Avalon and Camry before
> we bought. The ES330 is basically the same running gear and engine as
> the Avalon and the Camry. FWD 3.3 liter 6cyl. It was updated in '04 to
> 3.3 liters from the previous 3.0 liters (the ES330) The car is a great
> car, we have the Navigation also and it works reasonably well although
> can be confusing at times.We have been very happy with the car
> ....until last Sunday.....
>
> Now the bad:
> While in Las Vegas this last weekend (1-28, 1-29-06) I was driving the
> car and stopped at a light. The brake pedal then slowly sunk to the
> floor! Whoa! says I, this ain't right! I pumped the pedal and the brake
> returned to a normal brake height. At the next light, guess what?... it
> sunk to the floor again! No brakes! I pumped it again a couple of times
> and the brake pedal returns to normal height. I does this 2- 3 times
> again on the way back to our lodging in Las Vegas. When I parked it in
> the parking space at our apt, I was able to make it go to the floor
> again with very little pressure on the brake pedal.
> We called Lexus of Las Vegas on Monday 1-30-06 and had them flatbed the
> car to the dealer for repairs. They at first told me it was a "bubble
> in the brake line and they "bled it out"...BS..there was no bubble,
> there was no loss of fluid, there was no repair. They said because they
> "couldn't duplicate the problem" they weren't authorized to change the
> master cyl. That we should just come pick it up and drive it until it
> looses it brakes again!
> I said .."NO WAY!!!!" Fix it , it's under warranty and it only has
> 17,000 miles on it.
> Well it turns out that Lexus won't let there service mgrs. make a
> decision on their own, but must be able to "duplicate the problem" in
> order to authorize a repair.
> My position was that the brakes had failed not once on Sunday, but
> several times and that anything over once was one time to many.
> I asked if the service manager would put his wife in a car that had the
> brake pedal go to the floor and tell her that he can't do anything
> unless he actually sees the brake pedal on the floor. ( He'll be
> sleeping on the couch for a while!)
>
> I told him I wasn't willing to see the brake pedal on the floor and my
> significant other on a stretcher being taken to a hospital because he
> couldn't "duplicate the failure" in his shop. I asked him if he had
> heard the term "intermittent failure" . He said yes, but his mantra was
> : I can't replace the part unless I can "dup......Blah , Blah , Blah" .
>
> We live in Los Angeles, the car's in Las Vegas, & so is my S.O. And
> nothing is fixed, NO loan car for 3 days.
> I then called the Lexus dealer in Van Nuys where we bought the car new
> (Keyes Lexus in Van Nuys Ca) and asked if they could intervene. I got
> the same answer: We can't do anything unless they can "Duplicate the
> failure"
> Then I tried to call the Lexus customer service line (1800 25-LEXUS)
> and there's no answer at 4:15 pm PST. I tried it 4 times , It just
> rings and rings and finally hangs up on you. ( I guess their cars only
> break before 4:15 PM )
> Bottom line: You may think you're getting the best, but sometimes you
> don't get what you pay for.
> Today is Wednesday, 2-1-06 and the car has been at Las Vegas Lexus for
> 3 days, no repair, NO loan car. Refusal to tow it to our home so we can
> have it fixed in Los Angeles and ....A very Pi---- off customer.
> A customer who when we signed the purchase contract also was given a
> warranty.. and they are not living up to their obligations on the
> agreement we both entered into.
>
> So folks, like the housing market, so is the Vehicle market turning.
> Customer satisfaction is slowly going out the window. I hope the
> quality stays above water until Somebody out there cares enough to take
> care of the customer after the sale. If not, Toyota Motors USA will be
> joining GM and Ford, et al, in the slippery slide.
> By the way, I was in the automotive field in the 70's and 80's and saw
> the dismal products that were made in those two decades, so I left the
> business. I ran an automotive service center. I still am an automotive
> enthusiast and work on my own antique, classic & street rod vehicles
> that embrace all of the new technology. I am not afraid of the new
> technology and have a broad understanding of it including the
> Computerization of the automobile.
>
> BUT... I have a warranty.
>