more prius questions

Tony Harding wrote in


> On 03/24/10 08:53, Jim Yanik wrote:
>> Tony Harding wrote in
>>
>>
>>> On 03/16/10 23:33, jim beam wrote:
>>>> On 03/16/2010 11:48 AM, Tony Harding wrote:
>>>>> On 03/15/10 10:25, jim beam wrote:
>>>>>> On 03/15/2010 04:54 AM, Jim Yanik wrote:
>>>>>>> Tony Harding wrote in
>>>>>
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Newer cars need black boxes (recorders). The issues we're
>>>>>>>> discussing are so obscure& intermittent we'll never be able to
>>>>>>>> work our way back to the failure retroactively. I think anyone
>>>>>>>> who's done a lot of debugging understands how difficult this
>>>>>>>> is.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> newer cars(since 1996) have OBDII,and there are "black box
>>>>>>> recorders" that
>>>>>>> can plug into the OBDII port.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Many newer cars do record certain parameters,but they're more
>>>>>>> oriented towards crash evaluations,and can be subpoenaed by
>>>>>>> courts and the evidence used against the driver.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there enough data available to reconstruct various failures? My
>>>>> sense is that there isn't, thus the suggestion for an aircraft
>>>>> style block box.
>>>>>
>>>>>> yeah, we need much more of that! we should all have wireless data
>>>>>> transmitters uploading our exact gps location
>>>>>
>>>>> Your cell phone will do, thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>>> and our speed so we can
>>>>>> save all those poor hard working highway patrol officers from
>>>>>> having to manually write tickets - each time you speed, you get a
>>>>>> ticket automatically from the national speed limit enforcement
>>>>>> bureau.
>>>>>
>>>>> No such thing (or are you speaking hyperbolically?)
>>>>
>>>> no, prophetically. it's possible to do this now - the only question
>>>> is whether the second amendment will be revoked before it's
>>>> implemented.
>>>
>>> "Prophetically"?<in my best Inigo Montoya voice> I don't think that
>>> word means what you think it means.
>>>
>>> IIRC it still takes 3/4 of the states to ratify a new amendment and
>>> make it part of the Constitution - repeal/revoke the 2nd? Not in my
>>> lifetime or yours - time better spent worrying about being hit by
>>> lightning or attacked by a great white shark.
>>>
>>
>> the path for negating the Second Amendment is thru the UN's Small
>> Arms Treaty; once the treaty is signed and ratified accepting UN Gun
>> Control,our RKBA will be taken away.
>> Obama has said he will "work with the UN" on the Small Arms Treaty.
>> Obama is anti-gun.(Per his established voting record)
>
> Noticing a lot of black helicopters these days?

right out of Alinsky's Rules for Radicals.
>
> I stand by my original post.
>
>

you stand blind.
"it'll never happen"...
we're seeing stuff right now that people thought would never happen in the
US.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com
 >> Stay informed about: more prius questions 

Thus spake Tegger :

>"zzznot" wrote in
>
>
>> "Tegger" wrote in message
>>
>
>>
>> That's the incident, but I saw another report that
>> the driver REFUSED to even attempt to turn off the ignition
>> at speed or to shift to neutral, for the reasons I listed above.
>
>
>
>All he did was shake his head at the cop. That could mean a number of
>things.
>
>
>>
>>
>>> The driver admitted he floored the gas pedal in order to
>>> pass another car, so there's a VERY strong possibility that
>>> he's just trying to get out of a speeding ticket.
>>
>> While making a five-minute 911 call?
>>
>> I have not heard that the police were anywhere in sight,
>> until he called for them.
>
>
>
>All you know are the TV reports, which will be found later on to be full
>of omissions and errors. Guaranteed.

Cop said he could see the brakes smoking. Same said brakes were later
shown to have wear within the normal range for a car with the miles on
that one.

Cop (or someone) said that the driver was told to use his "emergency
brake". Errh, what's that? The "parking brake", which I prefer to
call the hand brake? The one which is nothing more than a mechanical
connection to the brakes which were reported to be burning out?

>
>
>>
>>
>>> The Prius does not have the CTS gas pedal unit, and this
>>> particular one was not part of the Prius recall.
>>
>> Right.
>>
>>
>>> The Prius has regenerative braking. Touch the brakes, and the
>>> power to the wheels is automatically killed. It's basically
>>> the same idea as Toyota is now applying to all non-hybrids,
>>> such as the one in which the San Diego cop died.
>>
>> I thought I heard only some/all Lexus models have the
>> cutout.
>
>
>
>Well you thought incorrectly.
>
>All Priuses with regenerative braking have /always/ had the brake
>override.
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>> The way the Prius throttle and brake work, it is /impossible/ for
>>> the car to keep accelerating if the brake pedal is touched.
>>
>> The tv reports all have the cop saying he could smell
>> the burnt brakes, apparently as he drove behind.
>>
>
>
>
>You have no idea if the driver had been braking hard immediately prior
>to the alleged acceleration incident.
>
>If you have ANY idea of how a Prius works, you'd know that what the
>driver alleges is impossible.
>
>The Prius has regenerative braking. The system not only applies the
>regenerative brakes when the brake pedal is pressed, but ALSO kills
>power to the engine. It would be senseless to have it any other way,
>since the regenerative braking would be negated if power were applied at
>the same time.
>
>In addition to the above, the stop lamp switch acts as a backup, so if
>for some reason the regen system doesn't kick in, current through the
>stop lamp circuit tells the PCM to kill engine power on its own.
>
>The driver SAID he tried to put it in neutral and the shifter would not
>move. This is also impossible.
>
>Too many things would have to fail for the car to actually be impossible
>to stop. The driver is lying.

Toyota and the Feds both report that there were a couple of hundred
small applications of the brakes and multiple applications of the
throttle, from the pedal. One must wonder.
--

- dillon I am not invalid

You know, I can't think of nothing finer than a fine
naked woman holding a gun. And you got all kinds of
fine going on.

Frankie Figs
 >> Stay informed about: more prius questions 

On 03/28/2010 07:40 PM, Dillon Pyron wrote:
> Thus spake Tegger :
>
>> "zzznot" wrote in
>>
>>
>>> "Tegger" wrote in message
>>>
>>
>>>
>>> That's the incident, but I saw another report that
>>> the driver REFUSED to even attempt to turn off the ignition
>>> at speed or to shift to neutral, for the reasons I listed above.
>>
>>
>>
>> All he did was shake his head at the cop. That could mean a number of
>> things.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> The driver admitted he floored the gas pedal in order to
>>>> pass another car, so there's a VERY strong possibility that
>>>> he's just trying to get out of a speeding ticket.
>>>
>>> While making a five-minute 911 call?
>>>
>>> I have not heard that the police were anywhere in sight,
>>> until he called for them.
>>
>>
>>
>> All you know are the TV reports, which will be found later on to be full
>> of omissions and errors. Guaranteed.
>
> Cop said he could see the brakes smoking. Same said brakes were later
> shown to have wear within the normal range for a car with the miles on
> that one.
>
> Cop (or someone) said that the driver was told to use his "emergency
> brake". Errh, what's that? The "parking brake", which I prefer to
> call the hand brake?

it's not operated by hand on the prius - it's operated by foot. just
like many domestics. and once applied, it's stays on. i wouldn't want
to lock up my rear wheels if i couldn't release them again and maintain
directional control.


> The one which is nothing more than a mechanical
> connection to the brakes which were reported to be burning out?
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> The Prius does not have the CTS gas pedal unit, and this
>>>> particular one was not part of the Prius recall.
>>>
>>> Right.
>>>
>>>
>>>> The Prius has regenerative braking. Touch the brakes, and the
>>>> power to the wheels is automatically killed. It's basically
>>>> the same idea as Toyota is now applying to all non-hybrids,
>>>> such as the one in which the San Diego cop died.
>>>
>>> I thought I heard only some/all Lexus models have the
>>> cutout.
>>
>>
>>
>> Well you thought incorrectly.
>>
>> All Priuses with regenerative braking have /always/ had the brake
>> override.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> The way the Prius throttle and brake work, it is /impossible/ for
>>>> the car to keep accelerating if the brake pedal is touched.
>>>
>>> The tv reports all have the cop saying he could smell
>>> the burnt brakes, apparently as he drove behind.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> You have no idea if the driver had been braking hard immediately prior
>> to the alleged acceleration incident.
>>
>> If you have ANY idea of how a Prius works, you'd know that what the
>> driver alleges is impossible.
>>
>> The Prius has regenerative braking. The system not only applies the
>> regenerative brakes when the brake pedal is pressed, but ALSO kills
>> power to the engine. It would be senseless to have it any other way,
>> since the regenerative braking would be negated if power were applied at
>> the same time.
>>
>> In addition to the above, the stop lamp switch acts as a backup, so if
>> for some reason the regen system doesn't kick in, current through the
>> stop lamp circuit tells the PCM to kill engine power on its own.
>>
>> The driver SAID he tried to put it in neutral and the shifter would not
>> move. This is also impossible.
>>
>> Too many things would have to fail for the car to actually be impossible
>> to stop. The driver is lying.
>
> Toyota and the Feds both report that there were a couple of hundred
> small applications of the brakes and multiple applications of the
> throttle, from the pedal. One must wonder.


--
nomina rutrum rutrum
 >> Stay informed about: more prius questions 

On 03/26/10 09:03, Jim Yanik wrote:
> Tony Harding wrote in
>
>
>> On 03/24/10 08:53, Jim Yanik wrote:
>>> Tony Harding wrote in
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 03/16/10 23:33, jim beam wrote:
>>>>> On 03/16/2010 11:48 AM, Tony Harding wrote:
>>>>>> On 03/15/10 10:25, jim beam wrote:
>>>>>>> On 03/15/2010 04:54 AM, Jim Yanik wrote:
>>>>>>>> Tony Harding wrote in
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Newer cars need black boxes (recorders). The issues we're
>>>>>>>>> discussing are so obscure& intermittent we'll never be able to
>>>>>>>>> work our way back to the failure retroactively. I think anyone
>>>>>>>>> who's done a lot of debugging understands how difficult this
>>>>>>>>> is.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> newer cars(since 1996) have OBDII,and there are "black box
>>>>>>>> recorders" that
>>>>>>>> can plug into the OBDII port.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Many newer cars do record certain parameters,but they're more
>>>>>>>> oriented towards crash evaluations,and can be subpoenaed by
>>>>>>>> courts and the evidence used against the driver.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is there enough data available to reconstruct various failures? My
>>>>>> sense is that there isn't, thus the suggestion for an aircraft
>>>>>> style block box.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> yeah, we need much more of that! we should all have wireless data
>>>>>>> transmitters uploading our exact gps location
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your cell phone will do, thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and our speed so we can
>>>>>>> save all those poor hard working highway patrol officers from
>>>>>>> having to manually write tickets - each time you speed, you get a
>>>>>>> ticket automatically from the national speed limit enforcement
>>>>>>> bureau.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No such thing (or are you speaking hyperbolically?)
>>>>>
>>>>> no, prophetically. it's possible to do this now - the only question
>>>>> is whether the second amendment will be revoked before it's
>>>>> implemented.
>>>>
>>>> "Prophetically"?<in my best Inigo Montoya voice> I don't think that
>>>> word means what you think it means.
>>>>
>>>> IIRC it still takes 3/4 of the states to ratify a new amendment and
>>>> make it part of the Constitution - repeal/revoke the 2nd? Not in my
>>>> lifetime or yours - time better spent worrying about being hit by
>>>> lightning or attacked by a great white shark.
>>>>
>>>
>>> the path for negating the Second Amendment is thru the UN's Small
>>> Arms Treaty; once the treaty is signed and ratified accepting UN Gun
>>> Control,our RKBA will be taken away.
>>> Obama has said he will "work with the UN" on the Small Arms Treaty.
>>> Obama is anti-gun.(Per his established voting record)
>>
>> Noticing a lot of black helicopters these days?
>
> right out of Alinsky's Rules for Radicals.

Who?

>> I stand by my original post.
>
> you stand blind.
> "it'll never happen"...
> we're seeing stuff right now that people thought would never happen in the
> US.

Well, that's true enough.
 >> Stay informed about: more prius questions 

Tony Harding wrote in


> On 03/26/10 09:03, Jim Yanik wrote:
>> Tony Harding wrote in
>>
>>
>>> On 03/24/10 08:53, Jim Yanik wrote:
>>>> Tony Harding wrote in
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 03/16/10 23:33, jim beam wrote:
>>>>>> On 03/16/2010 11:48 AM, Tony Harding wrote:
>>>>>>> On 03/15/10 10:25, jim beam wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 03/15/2010 04:54 AM, Jim Yanik wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Tony Harding wrote in
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Newer cars need black boxes (recorders). The issues we're
>>>>>>>>>> discussing are so obscure& intermittent we'll never be able
>>>>>>>>>> to work our way back to the failure retroactively. I think
>>>>>>>>>> anyone who's done a lot of debugging understands how
>>>>>>>>>> difficult this is.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> newer cars(since 1996) have OBDII,and there are "black box
>>>>>>>>> recorders" that
>>>>>>>>> can plug into the OBDII port.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Many newer cars do record certain parameters,but they're more
>>>>>>>>> oriented towards crash evaluations,and can be subpoenaed by
>>>>>>>>> courts and the evidence used against the driver.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is there enough data available to reconstruct various failures?
>>>>>>> My sense is that there isn't, thus the suggestion for an
>>>>>>> aircraft style block box.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> yeah, we need much more of that! we should all have wireless
>>>>>>>> data transmitters uploading our exact gps location
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Your cell phone will do, thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> and our speed so we can
>>>>>>>> save all those poor hard working highway patrol officers from
>>>>>>>> having to manually write tickets - each time you speed, you get
>>>>>>>> a ticket automatically from the national speed limit
>>>>>>>> enforcement bureau.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No such thing (or are you speaking hyperbolically?)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> no, prophetically. it's possible to do this now - the only
>>>>>> question is whether the second amendment will be revoked before
>>>>>> it's implemented.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Prophetically"?<in my best Inigo Montoya voice> I don't think
>>>>> that word means what you think it means.
>>>>>
>>>>> IIRC it still takes 3/4 of the states to ratify a new amendment
>>>>> and make it part of the Constitution - repeal/revoke the 2nd? Not
>>>>> in my lifetime or yours - time better spent worrying about being
>>>>> hit by lightning or attacked by a great white shark.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> the path for negating the Second Amendment is thru the UN's Small
>>>> Arms Treaty; once the treaty is signed and ratified accepting UN
>>>> Gun Control,our RKBA will be taken away.
>>>> Obama has said he will "work with the UN" on the Small Arms Treaty.
>>>> Obama is anti-gun.(Per his established voting record)
>>>
>>> Noticing a lot of black helicopters these days?
>>
>> right out of Alinsky's Rules for Radicals.
>
> Who?

Man,WHERE have you been? Are you a hobbit?
HOW could you have not heard about Saul Alinsky or his Rules for Radicals?
(Obama's a celebrated disciple of Alinsky.)
DAGS.

Wake UP.


>
>>> I stand by my original post.
>>
>> you stand blind.
>> "it'll never happen"...
>> we're seeing stuff right now that people thought would never happen
>> in the US.
>
> Well, that's true enough.
>



--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com
 >> Stay informed about: more prius questions