more prius questions

On Mar 10, 9:40 pm, "zzznot" wrote:
> yes I know it's the Honda group, but ...
>
> this last runaway report in San Diego, the driver said:
>
> A.  He didn't want to hit the power button
> at speed to turn off the ignition,
> because he feared it would lock the steering.
>
> B.  He didn't want to shift to neutral, because he was
> afraid it might accidentally shift to reverse.
>
> I'm pretty sure (B) was not a real danger, all cars
> have had lockout since decades ago, right?
>
> Anybody know if (A) was real?
>
> J.



The correct answer is C. Unskilled driver.


However, point D. is the most important. Faulty equipment.

A lot of Toyotas have major safety issues.

This car, instead of being on a highway, could have easily accelerated
out of control in a busy parking lot, killing or injuring dozens of
people.

We should focus our attention on WHY these cars are accelerating
suddenly, THEN focus on the drivers.
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On 03/10/10 21:40, zzznot wrote:
> yes I know it's the Honda group, but ...
>
> this last runaway report in San Diego, the driver said:
>
> A. He didn't want to hit the power button
> at speed to turn off the ignition,
> because he feared it would lock the steering.

Can't speak for Prius, but my Accord's steering lock doesn't engage
until the key is removed, so not a problem to turn it to OFF.

> B. He didn't want to shift to neutral, because he was
> afraid it might accidentally shift to reverse.

Yes, only in books like "Stroker Ace" do people shift into R at 100 kpm.
.... Maybe it's a knew Toyota defect?

FWIW, this guy's story doesn't smell right.
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"zzznot" wrote in

> yes I know it's the Honda group, but ...
>
> this last runaway report in San Diego, the driver said:
>
> A. He didn't want to hit the power button
> at speed to turn off the ignition,
> because he feared it would lock the steering.
>
> B. He didn't want to shift to neutral, because he was
> afraid it might accidentally shift to reverse.
>
>
> I'm pretty sure (B) was not a real danger, all cars
> have had lockout since decades ago, right?
>
> Anybody know if (A) was real?
>



No, it's not.

You mean this report?:
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local-beat/Runaway-Prius-Needs-Help-to...opCHP-8

That incident is /extremely/ suspicious.

The driver admitted he floored the gas pedal in order to
pass another car, so there's a VERY strong possibility that
he's just trying to get out of a speeding ticket.

The Prius does not have the CTS gas pedal unit, and this
particular one was not part of the Prius recall.

The Prius has regenerative braking. Touch the brakes, and the
power to the wheels is automatically killed. It's basically
the same idea as Toyota is now applying to all non-hybrids,
such as the one in which the San Diego cop died.

The way the Prius throttle and brake work, it is /impossible/ for
the car to keep accelerating if the brake pedal is touched.

Plus the shifter is a completely independent circuit. The claim
that the shifter would not go into Neutral is clearly bogus. It
went into Park just fine after the driver stopped the car.

It is very odd how as soon as the cop pulled in front of the Prius
(thus presenting the driver of the Prius with the very real
danger of damage to his car), the car STOPPED. How so
very convenient!


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"Tegger" wrote in message

> "zzznot" wrote in
>
>
> You mean this report?:
> http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local-beat/Runaway-Prius-Needs-Help-to...opCHP-8
>
> That incident is /extremely/ suspicious.

That's the incident, but I saw another report that
the driver REFUSED to even attempt to turn off the ignition
at speed or to shift to neutral, for the reasons I listed above.


> The driver admitted he floored the gas pedal in order to
> pass another car, so there's a VERY strong possibility that
> he's just trying to get out of a speeding ticket.

While making a five-minute 911 call?

I have not heard that the police were anywhere in sight,
until he called for them.


> The Prius does not have the CTS gas pedal unit, and this
> particular one was not part of the Prius recall.

Right.


> The Prius has regenerative braking. Touch the brakes, and the
> power to the wheels is automatically killed. It's basically
> the same idea as Toyota is now applying to all non-hybrids,
> such as the one in which the San Diego cop died.

I thought I heard only some/all Lexus models have the
cutout.


> The way the Prius throttle and brake work, it is /impossible/ for
> the car to keep accelerating if the brake pedal is touched.

The tv reports all have the cop saying he could smell
the burnt brakes, apparently as he drove behind.

> Plus the shifter is a completely independent circuit. The claim
> that the shifter would not go into Neutral is clearly bogus. It
> went into Park just fine after the driver stopped the car.

The driver would not ATTEMPT it.


> It is very odd how as soon as the cop pulled in front of the Prius
> (thus presenting the driver of the Prius with the very real
> danger of damage to his car), the car STOPPED. How so
> very convenient!

Er, yes, but that may be the first time the
driver tried it.

I'm curious how the cop managed to catch up with a car
going 90. I'm even curious how there was such a stretch
of freeway anywhere in socal, that was open enough to go
90mph for more than about one minute - and heard at least
one local news guy ask the same question!

So, my take is that it was a real runaway, even if
it did begin with the guy putting the pedal to the metal,
but that he REFUSED to try TWO things that might have
cut it short.

Another part of this is the claim that the brakes
would NOT stop the runaway, which still seems bogus
to me in ALL of these incidents.

But if it's true, they might want to put bigger
brakes on these suckers. And maybe a tail hook.

J.
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Some peopel say this is hoax.

Some people say Toyota PR people or lawyers are planting the
suspicions of a hoax too.
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On Mar 11, 10:53 am, "zzznot" wrote:

>
> Another part of this is the claim that the brakes
> would NOT stop the runaway, which still seems bogus
> to me in ALL of these incidents.

This doesn't seem bogus to me; most drivers do not know how to apply
maximum pressure to the brakes all at once. Riding the brakes with an
open throttle will quickly overheat the brakes greatly reducing/
eliminating their effectiveness.

>
> But if it's true, they might want to put bigger
> brakes on these suckers.

No, the cars need brake assist. See Mercedes Benz.


>  And maybe a tail hook.

And that's called brake override.
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On Mar 11, 2:09 pm, Tegger wrote:
> ACAR wrote in
> 03e8d7623... DeleteThis @j27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com:
>
> > On Mar 11, 10:53 am, "zzznot" wrote:
>
> >> Another part of this is the claim that the brakes
> >> would NOT stop the runaway, which still seems bogus
> >> to me in ALL of these incidents.
>
> > This doesn't seem bogus to me; most drivers do not know how to apply
> > maximum pressure to the brakes all at once. Riding the brakes with an
> > open throttle will quickly overheat the brakes greatly reducing/
> > eliminating their effectiveness.
>
> YOU CANNOT DO THAT ON A PRIUS.

Yeah, I knew that about Prius; I was referring to the more general
statement re. "in ALL of these incidents." I should have been more
specific.
>
> The Prius system kills power to the engine when the brake is pressed. It is
> IMPOSSIBLE to have both gas and brake activated at the same time on the
> Prius. IMPOSSIBLE. Ask any Prius driver.

Well,all but at least one.
I wonder if they'll have enough to convict him of something; perhaps
reckless endangerment.
>
> > And that's called brake override.
>
> Which all Prius's with regenerative braking have had all along. The
> driver's Prius also has a brake override. In fact, it has TWO independent
> override circuits.
>
> --
> Tegger
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"zzznot" wrote in


> "Tegger" wrote in message
>

>
> That's the incident, but I saw another report that
> the driver REFUSED to even attempt to turn off the ignition
> at speed or to shift to neutral, for the reasons I listed above.



All he did was shake his head at the cop. That could mean a number of
things.


>
>
>> The driver admitted he floored the gas pedal in order to
>> pass another car, so there's a VERY strong possibility that
>> he's just trying to get out of a speeding ticket.
>
> While making a five-minute 911 call?
>
> I have not heard that the police were anywhere in sight,
> until he called for them.



All you know are the TV reports, which will be found later on to be full
of omissions and errors. Guaranteed.


>
>
>> The Prius does not have the CTS gas pedal unit, and this
>> particular one was not part of the Prius recall.
>
> Right.
>
>
>> The Prius has regenerative braking. Touch the brakes, and the
>> power to the wheels is automatically killed. It's basically
>> the same idea as Toyota is now applying to all non-hybrids,
>> such as the one in which the San Diego cop died.
>
> I thought I heard only some/all Lexus models have the
> cutout.



Well you thought incorrectly.

All Priuses with regenerative braking have /always/ had the brake
override.



>
>
>> The way the Prius throttle and brake work, it is /impossible/ for
>> the car to keep accelerating if the brake pedal is touched.
>
> The tv reports all have the cop saying he could smell
> the burnt brakes, apparently as he drove behind.
>



You have no idea if the driver had been braking hard immediately prior
to the alleged acceleration incident.

If you have ANY idea of how a Prius works, you'd know that what the
driver alleges is impossible.

The Prius has regenerative braking. The system not only applies the
regenerative brakes when the brake pedal is pressed, but ALSO kills
power to the engine. It would be senseless to have it any other way,
since the regenerative braking would be negated if power were applied at
the same time.

In addition to the above, the stop lamp switch acts as a backup, so if
for some reason the regen system doesn't kick in, current through the
stop lamp circuit tells the PCM to kill engine power on its own.

The driver SAID he tried to put it in neutral and the shifter would not
move. This is also impossible.

Too many things would have to fail for the car to actually be impossible
to stop. The driver is lying.


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ACAR wrote in
03e8d7623177.TakeThisOut@j27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com:

> On Mar 11, 10:53 am, "zzznot" wrote:
>
>>
>> Another part of this is the claim that the brakes
>> would NOT stop the runaway, which still seems bogus
>> to me in ALL of these incidents.
>
> This doesn't seem bogus to me; most drivers do not know how to apply
> maximum pressure to the brakes all at once. Riding the brakes with an
> open throttle will quickly overheat the brakes greatly reducing/
> eliminating their effectiveness.



YOU CANNOT DO THAT ON A PRIUS.

The Prius system kills power to the engine when the brake is pressed. It is
IMPOSSIBLE to have both gas and brake activated at the same time on the
Prius. IMPOSSIBLE. Ask any Prius driver.



> And that's called brake override.


Which all Prius's with regenerative braking have had all along. The
driver's Prius also has a brake override. In fact, it has TWO independent
override circuits.



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"Elmo P. Shagnasty" wrote in
14AA54.18460611032010 RemoveThis @nothing.attdns.com:

> In article ,
> Tegger wrote:
>
>> The Prius has regenerative braking. The system not only applies the
>> regenerative brakes when the brake pedal is pressed, but ALSO kills
>> power to the engine.
>
> specifically, it kills spark and gas. At that speed, the engine itself
> is in fact turning. At any speed over 42mph, the engine must physically
> turn--that's inherent in the design.
>


OK, to be more specific... when the PCM sees both throttle and brake, it
shuts off the injectors, which is how it "kills power". The engine may
still be turning, but it is now a drag on the car, not a power source.

I'm not too sure the PCM kills the spark as well. Spark is normally left
running so as to retain the ability to be able to pulse the injectors in
order to prevent O2-poisoning of the cat.


--
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The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
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