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External
Since: Apr 22, 2006
Posts: 2
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 3:39 pm
Post subject: 2 part question  Add to elertz
Archived from groups: alt>autos>honda (more info?)
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i have a 93 civic lx (engine = D15B7) that was not manufactured with
an EGR valve, which is weird to me cause i thought all modern
vehicles had one (since the late 70's). I failed california smog 4
times with twice the legal limits of NOX but everything else was fine,
i'm assuming the catalytic converter is the only thing that fixes this
right, as it is likely a 3-way cat?
also does anyone know is using a PCV catch can (oil catch can) is smog
legal in california? i know they are sticklers when it comes to
anything emissions related, as most things need to have a CARB
approved # stamped on them, but since the catch can only catches the
oil and does not stop the air from recirculating and burning up as
intended i dont see why it would be illegal, lowers emissions right?
i know high nox is due to high combustion chamber temps, besides
de-carbonizing the piston tops what else would lower nox on a non egr
vehicle? |
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External
Since: Oct 30, 2004
Posts: 1802
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 6:48 pm
Post subject: Re: 2 part question Add to elertz [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"vairox" <nothere.RemoveThis@spammasters.com> wrote in message
news:81cl429vgo5ejvaen1sd9dcegi3imdgaa1@4ax.com...
>i have a 93 civic lx (engine = D15B7) that was not manufactured with
> an EGR valve, which is weird to me cause i thought all modern
> vehicles had one (since the late 70's). I failed california smog 4
> times with twice the legal limits of NOX but everything else was fine,
> i'm assuming the catalytic converter is the only thing that fixes this
> right, as it is likely a 3-way cat?
>
> also does anyone know is using a PCV catch can (oil catch can) is smog
> legal in california? i know they are sticklers when it comes to
> anything emissions related, as most things need to have a CARB
> approved # stamped on them, but since the catch can only catches the
> oil and does not stop the air from recirculating and burning up as
> intended i dont see why it would be illegal, lowers emissions right?
>
> i know high nox is due to high combustion chamber temps, besides
> de-carbonizing the piston tops what else would lower nox on a non egr
> vehicle?
That's about the size of it - the NOx stage of the cat is bad... assuming it
is a 3-stage cat. The absence of EGR makes me think that is so.
Make sure the timing is correct. Advanced timing will raise the NOx level,
but AFAIK a 3-stage catalytic converter hides that as long as it is working.
Mike |
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External
Since: Apr 22, 2006
Posts: 2
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:28 pm
Post subject: Re: 2 part question Add to elertz [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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thanks guys... the O2 sensor was replaced by a shop the last time it
failed (in july 04) and it failed with harder NOX and a higher amount
of HC, though it was still in the legal limit....
no ECU codes...
might install a magnaflow direct fit replacement, if i can get them to
confirm it is california smog/noise legal...
sort of stumped cause i have another inspection coming up in june or
july.... i am now using the proper OEM NGK plugs, did some intake
cleaner throught the booster, idles much better, drives smoother...
cleaned a lot of carbon off the pistons.
you guys know what effect a PCV catch can would have on emissions? i
know it wouldnt do squat on NOX, thats temp related....but any others? >> Stay informed about: 2 part question |
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External
Since: Sep 02, 2003
Posts: 740
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:55 pm
Post subject: Re: 2 part question Add to elertz [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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vairox <nothere RemoveThis @spammasters.com> wrote in
news:81cl429vgo5ejvaen1sd9dcegi3imdgaa1@4ax.com:
> i have a 93 civic lx (engine = D15B7) that was not manufactured with
> an EGR valve, which is weird to me cause i thought all modern
> vehicles had one (since the late 70's). I failed california smog 4
> times with twice the legal limits of NOX but everything else was fine,
> i'm assuming the catalytic converter is the only thing that fixes this
> right, as it is likely a 3-way cat?
maybe a bad O2 sensor? any codes set on the ECU?
>
> also does anyone know is using a PCV catch can (oil catch can) is smog
> legal in california? i know they are sticklers when it comes to
> anything emissions related, as most things need to have a CARB
> approved # stamped on them, but since the catch can only catches the
> oil and does not stop the air from recirculating and burning up as
> intended i dont see why it would be illegal, lowers emissions right?
>
> i know high nox is due to high combustion chamber temps, besides
> de-carbonizing the piston tops what else would lower nox on a non egr
> vehicle?
>
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net >> Stay informed about: 2 part question |
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External
Since: Oct 30, 2004
Posts: 1802
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 12:57 pm
Post subject: Re: 2 part question Add to elertz [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"vairox" <nothere RemoveThis @spammasters.com> wrote in message
news:kfkn42tvaipokjplcnm1arlpqt85j3rehc@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 13:33:47 GMT, "Elle"
> <honda.lioness RemoveThis @nospam.earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
> what are the other causes of high nox? high combustion chamber temps
> due to carbon buildup is one but im not sure of any others
>
Technically, the causes are high temperatures and rapid cooling, which
causes the NOx to "freeze" instead of decaying as the gases cooled.
Since the expansion time is pretty much determined by engine speed, that
leaves combustion temperature as the factor we can control. Carbon really
isn't an issue directly, but it can cause preignition which has the same
effect as advanced ignition timing. The two big culprits are ignition timing
and mixture. Advanced timing increases combustion temperatures, and a leaner
mixture at high throttle settings (when it should be rich anyway to
forestall detonation) does the same. EGR reduces the temperature by diluting
the mixture without affecting the air/fuel ratio.
Mike >> Stay informed about: 2 part question |
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External
Since: Jul 09, 2004
Posts: 320
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 1:26 pm
Post subject: Re: 2 part question Add to elertz [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Michael Pardee wrote:
> "vairox" <nothere.DeleteThis@spammasters.com> wrote in message
> news:kfkn42tvaipokjplcnm1arlpqt85j3rehc@4ax.com...
>
>>On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 13:33:47 GMT, "Elle"
>><honda.lioness.DeleteThis@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>what are the other causes of high nox? high combustion chamber temps
>>due to carbon buildup is one but im not sure of any others
>>
>
> Technically, the causes are high temperatures and rapid cooling, which
> causes the NOx to "freeze" instead of decaying as the gases cooled.
>
> Since the expansion time is pretty much determined by engine speed, that
> leaves combustion temperature as the factor we can control. Carbon really
> isn't an issue directly, but it can cause preignition which has the same
> effect as advanced ignition timing. The two big culprits are ignition timing
> and mixture. Advanced timing increases combustion temperatures, and a leaner
> mixture at high throttle settings (when it should be rich anyway to
> forestall detonation) does the same. EGR reduces the temperature by diluting
> the mixture without affecting the air/fuel ratio.
>
> Mike
>
>
good post. yes, check timing and mixture. mixture can be assisted by
running a couple of tanks with injector cleaner through the vehicle.
timing should be set with the maintenance jumper connected. and it
should be dead-on, not just close. regarding egr, it's often addressed
these days by increasing the overlap between exhaust and inlet valve
timing, so make sure the valve clearances are correct.
to the op, no, an oil catch can is illegal in california. >> Stay informed about: 2 part question |
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