All the oil ran out of my new 2007 CR-V !!

Dave and Trudy wrote:
> "Chuck Connell" <connell.RemoveThis@chc-3.com> wrote in message
> news:Q92dnVpBprf9Y-LYnZ2dnUVZ_s6onZ2d@conversent.net...
> >I have not yet heard back from the dealer, about their intended resolution.
> >I am now driving a rental, which they are paying for. If the dealer offers
> >to install a new engine, I am wondering if I should accept it... It seems
> >pretty complicated to me to replace the whole engine, with all of its many
> >interconnections, and do it as well as the engine in a new car.
> >
> > Thoughts on whether I could trust a dealer to do this right?
> >
> > Chuck
>
> Chuck,
> I wonder why you think you are entitled to a new engine let alone a new car?
> I believe that you should make your decision based on what the dealer finds
> with your present car. If it was a manufacturing defect or a construction
> mistake, then I would agree that you should be entitled to a new engine. If
> it turns out that your problem resulted from damage caused by a road hazard,
> such as a hole in the oil pan or something striking the filter and
> dislodging it then the situation is completely different. To illustrate; if
> you bought a new battery for your car, and during installation you dropped
> the battery and knocked a hole in it, would you expect a replacement under
> warranty? I don't think so. Furthermore, you exacerbated the situation by
> continuing to drive the vehicle after the idiot light illuminated. If they
> really wish to do so, Honda can argue that you are responsible, at least in
> part, for damage to the engine. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that I
> agree with that position, rather I am simply pointing out to you what may
> come down the pike. I would prepare myself for all contingencies and have
> arguments to counter them. As far as accepting a new engine, definitely! A
> new engine, installed by the dealership, should carry the same warranty as
> the original engine. In any case, good luck and I hope this all works out
> for the best for you.
>
> DaveD
>

He should get new engine if not get a new car even if the fault is on
the driver.
If this happens to Hyundai, with Hyundai aggressive service will
replace new engine based on Hyundia's 5 years or 100,000 miles
guarantee.
 >> Stay informed about: All the oil ran out of my new 2007 CR-V !! 

Based on the fact that I drove the car for 4-5 days, with the engine dry
(or nearly dry) of oil, I am asking Honda for a new car or factory-new
engine. Here is the letter I just faxed to the dealer....

+++++++++++++++++++++

Notes about 2007 CR-V Oil Loss
December 12, 2006
Chuck Connell, 781-939-0505
Car purchased from Herb Chambers Honda

Driving home from work last night, about 2-3 miles from home, I thought I
saw a light flicker on the dashboard. I looked, but saw nothing. I
continued to drive. I saw another flicker, looked again, and just saw the
oil light go out. I continued to drive. The light came on again, and then
went off. I was now about one mile from home. I continued home, and checked
the dip stick as soon as I got there. It was hard to read in the dark, and
I had just stopped the engine, but it appeared low. I added a quart of oil.

I drove my daughter to dance class (5 miles total) without the oil light
coming on. I checked the dipstick when I got home anyway. It appeared low,
so I added another quart of oil and parked the car for the night.

This morning, I checked the dipstick. The oil was completely off the stick,
or perhaps just a drop at the bottom. I added two quarts, bringing the oil
level up to full (2nd hole in the stick). The crankcase had been down four
quarts of oil. I drove directly to the dealer, about 6 miles.

Looking back, the leak started at least 5 days earlier.

- There are two large oil spots in my driveway. One where the CRV
was parked, and another at the entrance to the driveway. I saw both of
these over the previous weekend, but did not imagine they were from my new
car. The first one, I assumed was from my 10-year-old Saturn which had a
large transmission leak a few months ago. The second one, I assumed was
from another car that had visited our house or turned around in the
driveway. The driveway is black and old, so it is not obvious when a new
oil spot appears.

- There are two oil spots at my office parking lot, where I parked
my CRV the previous week. I remember where I parked because I had backed my
car in there, so that a glass company could easily fix the front
windshield, which had been cracked by a stone.

I now realize that the engine was dry of oil for 4-5 days, or more. When I
started the car those mornings, it started slowly, as if the battery were
low. I thought, at the time, that this seemed strange. Why would a new
battery be sluggish? But the car started, and ran fine, so I dismissed it.
I now understand that the reason the battery seemed weak is because the
engine was dry and not lubricated. This period covers at least 8-10 dry
starts, because each day I started it again after work, after 9 hours of
non-use.

-- END --
 >> Stay informed about: All the oil ran out of my new 2007 CR-V !! 

The dealer (and Honda corporate) has come back with their latest offer...
No new car, no new engine, but a 7 year / 100K warranty. I am thinking
about it.... Comments?

Chuck


"Chuck Connell" <connell.TakeThisOut@chc-3.com> wrote in message
news:nqSdnZV3zoPqIOPYnZ2dnUVZ_oannZ2d@conversent.net...
>I have a one-month old 07 CRV with about 900 miles. Last night I noticed
>the oil light blinking randomly. I checked the oil level as soon as I got
>home, just a couple miles later. It was down, so I added a quart. I did
>another short errand (5 miles), then checked the oil again. Still low, so
>I added another quart and parked it for the night. This morning I checked
>the stick and it showed nothing. So I added two more quarts, bringing the
>level up to full (2nd hole in the stick). I drove the car directly to the
>dealer this morning (about 5 miles) with no oil light coming on.
>
> I now realize that the oil has been running out for a week or more. There
> are oil spots where I park my car at work, and two large spots in my
> driveway. The oil level was down 4 quarts!
>
> Some questions...
>
> - Has anyone else had this problem?
>
> - What is the total oil capacity of this vehicle? I suspect it is just
> over 4q, so my oil was VERY low.
>
> - Should I demand a new car from the dealer, since I drove it for some
> days this way? (Probably about 20-30 miles per day.)
>
> - Any other thoughts/insights?
>
> TIA,
> Chuck Connell
> http://www.chc-3.com -- My home page
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: All the oil ran out of my new 2007 CR-V !! 

"Red Cloud" <mmdir2005.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1166085369.179513.138720@t46g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Chuck Connell wrote:
>> Just got off the phone with the service rep at the dealer (Herb Chambers
>> in
>> Burlington MA). The crank seal was blown. The oil was pumping onto the
>> ground as the engine ran. He said "it looks like everything is OK inside
>> the engine". I said there is no way to know that without putting the
>> crankshaft and cylinder walls under a microscope. He more or less agreed.
>>
>> I said that I want a new car, and he agreed to escalate this to his
>> manager.
>>
>> Chuck
>
> Wow! Already engine trouble on brand new cars??? Wow! Way too early.
>
> I bet that Hyundai dealer will exchange with a new car.
>
It would be a real scandal if there were a lot of these, but this is the
first one I've heard of in the five years or so I've been here. Of course it
is most likely a failure of the seal itself, and it's a good bet Hyundai
gets their seals from the same vendor, for the same reasons Honda buys from
them.

Few dealers would want to exchange the entire car; I doubt the Hyundai
dealers are as foolish as you suggest. (You wouldn't do that, would you?)
Infancy failures are legion - that's why warranties exist, you know - and
they are usually handled on the concept of the "FRU" (field replaceable
unit). In this case the unit is the engine, because the whole car isn't
riddled with defects. A new car would mean the customer is exposed to being
the field tester for a whole new vehicle again, with the increased risk of
failures that implies.

Mike
 >> Stay informed about: All the oil ran out of my new 2007 CR-V !! 

"Red Cloud" <mmdir2005 DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1166086097.812921.220340@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> He should get new engine if not get a new car even if the fault is on
> the driver.
> If this happens to Hyundai, with Hyundai aggressive service will
> replace new engine based on Hyundia's 5 years or 100,000 miles
> guarantee.
>
You notice he is in line to get a new engine under the Honda warranty, too?
Hyundai isn't as stupid as you suggest; they are pretty smart people. They
won't warranty something that is damaged through owner negligence, because
it is spelled out in the warranty and that would be simply bad business.
Leading car makers, including Honda and Toyota, have consistently given
customers the benefit of the doubt and footed the bill for major failures
that may be brought on by customer negligence. But that doesn't mean they
are foolish about it.

Mike
 >> Stay informed about: All the oil ran out of my new 2007 CR-V !! 

"Chuck Connell" <connell DeleteThis @chc-3.com> wrote in message
news:J9GdnZSV_Z6IKxzYnZ2dnUVZ_tunnZ2d@conversent.net...
> The dealer (and Honda corporate) has come back with their latest offer...
> No new car, no new engine, but a 7 year / 100K warranty. I am thinking
> about it.... Comments?
>
> Chuck

Not surprised. Figured they would fix it rather than replace the engine or
the car. The bad part about this is if there is failure at an inopportune
time -- on a trip somewhere -- you are inconvenienced considerably.

>
>
> "Chuck Connell" <connell DeleteThis @chc-3.com> wrote in message
> news:nqSdnZV3zoPqIOPYnZ2dnUVZ_oannZ2d@conversent.net...
> >I have a one-month old 07 CRV with about 900 miles. Last night I noticed
> >the oil light blinking randomly. I checked the oil level as soon as I got
> >home, just a couple miles later. It was down, so I added a quart. I did
> >another short errand (5 miles), then checked the oil again. Still low, so
> >I added another quart and parked it for the night. This morning I checked
> >the stick and it showed nothing. So I added two more quarts, bringing the
> >level up to full (2nd hole in the stick). I drove the car directly to
the
> >dealer this morning (about 5 miles) with no oil light coming on.
> >
> > I now realize that the oil has been running out for a week or more.
There
> > are oil spots where I park my car at work, and two large spots in my
> > driveway. The oil level was down 4 quarts!
> >
> > Some questions...
> >
> > - Has anyone else had this problem?
> >
> > - What is the total oil capacity of this vehicle? I suspect it is just
> > over 4q, so my oil was VERY low.
> >
> > - Should I demand a new car from the dealer, since I drove it for some
> > days this way? (Probably about 20-30 miles per day.)
> >
> > - Any other thoughts/insights?
> >
> > TIA,
> > Chuck Connell
> > http://www.chc-3.com -- My home page
> >
> >
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: All the oil ran out of my new 2007 CR-V !! 

"Chuck Connell" <connell RemoveThis @chc-3.com> wrote in
news:AqCdnYLbHe-g_RzYnZ2dnUVZ_uS3nZ2d@conversent.net:


<snip>

Chuck, while I sympathize with your problem and have been following this
thread with interest, I must point up something nobody has as yet: It is
poor procedure to keep changing the Subject line with each message. Some
newsreaders have fits with changing Subject lines.

The subject line should stay the same throughout the thread unless the
suject changes enough to send the thread off-topic, which this one has not.



--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
 >> Stay informed about: All the oil ran out of my new 2007 CR-V !! 

OK. Sorry. I am using a graphical reader, which displays the whole thread
nicely indented as appropriate. So changing subject lines is helpful
sometimes in that case.

Chuck


"Tegger" <tegger.RemoveThis@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
news:Xns98998B1E06AA4tegger@207.14.116.130...
> "Chuck Connell" <connell.RemoveThis@chc-3.com> wrote in
> news:AqCdnYLbHe-g_RzYnZ2dnUVZ_uS3nZ2d@conversent.net:
>
>
> <snip>
>
> Chuck, while I sympathize with your problem and have been following this
> thread with interest, I must point up something nobody has as yet: It is
> poor procedure to keep changing the Subject line with each message. Some
> newsreaders have fits with changing Subject lines.
>
> The subject line should stay the same throughout the thread unless the
> suject changes enough to send the thread off-topic, which this one has
> not.
>
>
>
> --
> Tegger
>
> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
> www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
 >> Stay informed about: All the oil ran out of my new 2007 CR-V !! 

Can you compare the vehicle MPG before and after the incident? If the MPG
drops, that would be an indication of increased friction due to damage. Or
it could be colder weather and longer warm up times. Either way, it is a
possible data point.

Paul.
Phoenix, AZ

"Chuck Connell" <connell RemoveThis @chc-3.com> wrote in message
news:J9GdnZSV_Z6IKxzYnZ2dnUVZ_tunnZ2d@conversent.net...
> The dealer (and Honda corporate) has come back with their latest offer...
> No new car, no new engine, but a 7 year / 100K warranty. I am thinking
> about it.... Comments?
>
> Chuck
>
>
> "Chuck Connell" <connell RemoveThis @chc-3.com> wrote in message
> news:nqSdnZV3zoPqIOPYnZ2dnUVZ_oannZ2d@conversent.net...
>>I have a one-month old 07 CRV with about 900 miles. Last night I noticed
>>the oil light blinking randomly. I checked the oil level as soon as I got
>>home, just a couple miles later. It was down, so I added a quart. I did
>>another short errand (5 miles), then checked the oil again. Still low, so
>>I added another quart and parked it for the night. This morning I checked
>>the stick and it showed nothing. So I added two more quarts, bringing the
>>level up to full (2nd hole in the stick). I drove the car directly to the
>>dealer this morning (about 5 miles) with no oil light coming on.
>>
>> I now realize that the oil has been running out for a week or more. There
>> are oil spots where I park my car at work, and two large spots in my
>> driveway. The oil level was down 4 quarts!
>>
>> Some questions...
>>
>> - Has anyone else had this problem?
>>
>> - What is the total oil capacity of this vehicle? I suspect it is just
>> over 4q, so my oil was VERY low.
>>
>> - Should I demand a new car from the dealer, since I drove it for some
>> days this way? (Probably about 20-30 miles per day.)
>>
>> - Any other thoughts/insights?
>>
>> TIA,
>> Chuck Connell
>> http://www.chc-3.com -- My home page
>>
>>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: All the oil ran out of my new 2007 CR-V !! 

"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull.RemoveThis@cybertrails.com> wrote in
news:_Kmdnbo0q4smchzYnZ2dnUVZ_tKjnZ2d@sedona.net:

> Infancy failures are legion



Actully, they're extremely rare. The problem is, even a 0.01% field failure
rate is considered catastrophic due to the absolute numbers involved. Plus
the bad publicity generated therefrom.



> that's why warranties exist, you
> know



And the worse the perceived quality, often the better the warranty, in an
attempt at putting peoples' minds at ease. Anybody remember NSU's rotaries?




--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
 >> Stay informed about: All the oil ran out of my new 2007 CR-V !! 

Chuck Connell wrote:
> I have not yet heard back from the dealer, about their intended
> resolution. I am now driving a rental, which they are paying for. If
> the dealer offers to install a new engine, I am wondering if I should
> accept it... It seems pretty complicated to me to replace the whole
> engine, with all of its many interconnections, and do it as well as
> the engine in a new car.
> Thoughts on whether I could trust a dealer to do this right?
>
> Chuck

The install new engines in the factory all the time.
 >> Stay informed about: All the oil ran out of my new 2007 CR-V !! 

If you are reasonably sure that it never actually ran bone dry, chances are
that it really wasn't damaged. If they are offering to extend the bumper to
bumper warranty and not just the engine internals, I would take the
warranty, it would turn it into the cheapest to maintain car you could get.

I know, a lot of "if"s. You will need to decide based on how much damage,
if any, you think was actually done to it.

On 12/14/06 2:35 PM, in article
J9GdnZSV_Z6IKxzYnZ2dnUVZ_tunnZ2d DeleteThis @conversent.net, "Chuck Connell"
<connell DeleteThis @chc-3.com> wrote:

> The dealer (and Honda corporate) has come back with their latest offer...
> No new car, no new engine, but a 7 year / 100K warranty. I am thinking
> about it.... Comments?
>
> Chuck
>
>
> "Chuck Connell" <connell DeleteThis @chc-3.com> wrote in message
> news:nqSdnZV3zoPqIOPYnZ2dnUVZ_oannZ2d@conversent.net...
>> I have a one-month old 07 CRV with about 900 miles. Last night I noticed
>> the oil light blinking randomly. I checked the oil level as soon as I got
>> home, just a couple miles later. It was down, so I added a quart. I did
>> another short errand (5 miles), then checked the oil again. Still low, so
>> I added another quart and parked it for the night. This morning I checked
>> the stick and it showed nothing. So I added two more quarts, bringing the
>> level up to full (2nd hole in the stick). I drove the car directly to the
>> dealer this morning (about 5 miles) with no oil light coming on.
>>
>> I now realize that the oil has been running out for a week or more. There
>> are oil spots where I park my car at work, and two large spots in my
>> driveway. The oil level was down 4 quarts!
>>
>> Some questions...
>>
>> - Has anyone else had this problem?
>>
>> - What is the total oil capacity of this vehicle? I suspect it is just
>> over 4q, so my oil was VERY low.
>>
>> - Should I demand a new car from the dealer, since I drove it for some
>> days this way? (Probably about 20-30 miles per day.)
>>
>> - Any other thoughts/insights?
>>
>> TIA,
>> Chuck Connell
>> http://www.chc-3.com -- My home page
>>
>>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: All the oil ran out of my new 2007 CR-V !! 

On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 01:55:12 +0000, L Alpert wrote:

> Chuck Connell wrote:
>> I have not yet heard back from the dealer, about their intended
>> resolution. I am now driving a rental, which they are paying for. If
>> the dealer offers to install a new engine, I am wondering if I should
>> accept it... It seems pretty complicated to me to replace the whole
>> engine, with all of its many interconnections, and do it as well as
>> the engine in a new car.
>> Thoughts on whether I could trust a dealer to do this right?
>>
>> Chuck
>
> The install new engines in the factory all the time.

The dealer doesn't work at the factory, and the factory uses machinery for
most of the work.

But installing an engine should be doable by any competent mechanic. It
takes time and work, but it isn't something new to the automotive world.
 >> Stay informed about: All the oil ran out of my new 2007 CR-V !!