Why won't Toyota make a hybrid with a plug?

Forbes had an article that hybrids with plugs would get 30% more milage
as they would be on the electric motor more. The cost of electricity
is less than the gas used.

The most effecient would be diesel hybrids with plugs. 80 to 100 mpgs
would be realistic. We could tell the Saudis to go to hell, brong the
troops home, protect the borders, nuke Mecca is the Muslims acted up
and Cindy Sheehan would be off the TV with her ravings and ranting.
The Muslims in the ME would be bankrupt and life would be good.

Please Toyota.
 >> Stay informed about: Why won't Toyota make a hybrid with a plug? 

Yeah, but the point was about a HYBRID with a plug, which implies the
presence of a gas engine.

I would be interested in comparing the cost and efficiency of pure
electric (with enough batteries for a "regular" 10-mile commute at
reasonable speed) and a plug for recharging vs. a hybrid. Obviously
gas gives you freedom to roam and not plug in, but I have to believe
that an all-electric system would be more efficient for charging the
batteries.

No doubt YMMV, LOL
 >> Stay informed about: Why won't Toyota make a hybrid with a plug? 

"Mark" <bogusmailmark RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1124376184.667706.166150@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> What would be the purpose of the plug again? Aren't the batteries
> already charged with energy gathered from the brakes?


Not enough to power the car. The gas engine is required to charge the
batteries when they get low. You reclaim *some* lost power through brake
chargers, but due to losses it's only a very small amount compared to what
is drawn from the batteries to drive the car, unless your trip is mostly
downhill and at relatively low speeds. The higher speed you go, the higher
percentage of power is used to overcome wind resistance (I believe wind drag
increases eightfold with every doubling in speed.)
 >> Stay informed about: Why won't Toyota make a hybrid with a plug? 

"Ernie Sty" <fake_email.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:grydnVAsI9kSu5veRVn-1A@giganews.com...
>
> "Mark" <bogusmailmark.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1124376184.667706.166150@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> What would be the purpose of the plug again? Aren't the batteries
>> already charged with energy gathered from the brakes?
>

Not only that, if you have an 10 - mile commute to work, a 10 mil long
extension cord would cost and weigh a lot and people might trip over it!
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply
 >> Stay informed about: Why won't Toyota make a hybrid with a plug? 

"Ray O" <rokigawa.TakeThisOut@tristarassociatesDOT.com> wrote in message
news:de4a3$430628b5$44a4a10d$24167@msgid.meganewsservers.com...
>
> "Ernie Sty" <fake_email.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:grydnVAsI9kSu5veRVn-1A@giganews.com...
>>
>> "Mark" <bogusmailmark.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:1124376184.667706.166150@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>> What would be the purpose of the plug again? Aren't the batteries
>>> already charged with energy gathered from the brakes?
>>
>
> Not only that, if you have an 10 - mile commute to work, a 10 mil long
> extension cord would cost and weigh a lot and people might trip over it!


LOL I was assuming they meant you plug it in while it is parked to charge
the batteries.
 >> Stay informed about: Why won't Toyota make a hybrid with a plug? 

"Ernie Sty" <fake_email.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:19OdnZ2dnZ3_aAPSnZ2dne29l96dnZ2dRVn-0p2dnZ0@giganews.com...
>
> "Ray O" <rokigawa.RemoveThis@tristarassociatesDOT.com> wrote in message
> news:de4a3$430628b5$44a4a10d$24167@msgid.meganewsservers.com...
>>
>> "Ernie Sty" <fake_email.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:grydnVAsI9kSu5veRVn-1A@giganews.com...
>>>
>>> "Mark" <bogusmailmark.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:1124376184.667706.166150@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>>> What would be the purpose of the plug again? Aren't the batteries
>>>> already charged with energy gathered from the brakes?
>>>
>>
>> Not only that, if you have an 10 - mile commute to work, a 10 mil long
>> extension cord would cost and weigh a lot and people might trip over it!
>
>
> LOL I was assuming they meant you plug it in while it is parked to charge
> the batteries.

I was just making a point that anyone could claims of giant leaps in hybrid
fuel economy or X number of miles range on batteries merely by adding more
batteries and a separate charging system or even using a long extension
cord. It's a little trickier to come up with a cost-effective, consumer
friendly and commercially viable solution.

The whole story behind the electrical engineer who spent $3,000 tinkering on
his Prius to boost the mileage to 80 MPG is that it only gets 80 MPG for his
20 mile commute to work, then he gets typical Prius economy after that. Of
course, I'm sure his labor isn't included in the $3,000 so if you add those
costs, the payback gets even longer, if it is even achievable.
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply
 >> Stay informed about: Why won't Toyota make a hybrid with a plug? 

On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 14:19:24 -0500, "Ray O"
<rokigawa.DeleteThis@tristarassociatesDOT.com> wrote:
>"Ernie Sty" <fake_email.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:19OdnZ2dnZ3_aAPSnZ2dne29l96dnZ2dRVn-0p2dnZ0@giganews.com...
>> "Ray O" <rokigawa.DeleteThis@tristarassociatesDOT.com> wrote in message
>> news:de4a3$430628b5$44a4a10d$24167@msgid.meganewsservers.com...
>>> "Ernie Sty" <fake_email.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:grydnVAsI9kSu5veRVn-1A@giganews.com...
>>>> "Mark" <bogusmailmark.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:1124376184.667706.166150@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

>>>>> What would be the purpose of the plug again? Aren't the batteries
>>>>> already charged with energy gathered from the brakes?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Not only that, if you have an 10 - mile commute to work, a 10 mil long
>>> extension cord would cost and weigh a lot and people might trip over it!
>>
>>
>> LOL I was assuming they meant you plug it in while it is parked to charge
>> the batteries.
>
>I was just making a point that anyone could claims of giant leaps in hybrid
>fuel economy or X number of miles range on batteries merely by adding more
>batteries and a separate charging system or even using a long extension
>cord. It's a little trickier to come up with a cost-effective, consumer
>friendly and commercially viable solution.
>
>The whole story behind the electrical engineer who spent $3,000 tinkering on
>his Prius to boost the mileage to 80 MPG is that it only gets 80 MPG for his
>20 mile commute to work, then he gets typical Prius economy after that. Of
>course, I'm sure his labor isn't included in the $3,000 so if you add those
>costs, the payback gets even longer, if it is even achievable.

Ah, but that was $3,000 by that electrical engineer as a one-off.
If you added up a bill including the actual expert engineering and
labor hours spent on the conversion (instead of just for parts and
materials as I bet he did) it would be prohibitively expensive to do.

But done as a factory option that many people choose, or better as
a regular part of the production car, the costs get spread out over
the entire production run. And suddenly it isn't that expensive to
add that feature to the cars.

--<< Bruce >>--

--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.
 >> Stay informed about: Why won't Toyota make a hybrid with a plug? 

"Bruce L. Bergman" <blPYTHONbergman.RemoveThis@earthlink.invalid> wrote in message
news:684lg1584eva01icu5b1d14cao821k6f5i@4ax.com...

<snipped>

>>>> Not only that, if you have an 10 - mile commute to work, a 10 mil long
>>>> extension cord would cost and weigh a lot and people might trip over
>>>> it!
>>>
>>>
>>> LOL I was assuming they meant you plug it in while it is parked to
>>> charge
>>> the batteries.
>>
>>I was just making a point that anyone could claims of giant leaps in
>>hybrid
>>fuel economy or X number of miles range on batteries merely by adding more
>>batteries and a separate charging system or even using a long extension
>>cord. It's a little trickier to come up with a cost-effective, consumer
>>friendly and commercially viable solution.
>>
>>The whole story behind the electrical engineer who spent $3,000 tinkering
>>on
>>his Prius to boost the mileage to 80 MPG is that it only gets 80 MPG for
>>his
>>20 mile commute to work, then he gets typical Prius economy after that.
>>Of
>>course, I'm sure his labor isn't included in the $3,000 so if you add
>>those
>>costs, the payback gets even longer, if it is even achievable.
>
> Ah, but that was $3,000 by that electrical engineer as a one-off.
> If you added up a bill including the actual expert engineering and
> labor hours spent on the conversion (instead of just for parts and
> materials as I bet he did) it would be prohibitively expensive to do.
>
> But done as a factory option that many people choose, or better as
> a regular part of the production car, the costs get spread out over
> the entire production run. And suddenly it isn't that expensive to
> add that feature to the cars.
>
> --<< Bruce >>--
>

The premium for a hybrid is probably around $4,000 or $5,000 over a
conventionally powered car.

Assuming the factory could get the $3,000 in parts for the additional
battery packs and power source for half the cost and then add in engineering
and installation, you're probably back to $3,000 for the additional package.
Add that $3,000 to the original $4k or $5k premium and I'm not sure you can
ever recover $8,000 or $9,000 in fuel savings.
--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply
 >> Stay informed about: Why won't Toyota make a hybrid with a plug? 

"Ray O" <rokigawa.RemoveThis@tristarassociatesDOT.com> wrote in message
news:a1875$430a2548$44a4a10d$11811@msgid.meganewsservers.com...
> "Ernie Sty" <fake_email.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:19OdnZ2dnZ3_aAPSnZ2dne29l96dnZ2dRVn-0p2dnZ0@giganews.com...

>>
>> LOL I was assuming they meant you plug it in while it is parked to
>> charge the batteries.
>
> I was just making a point that anyone could claims of giant leaps in
> hybrid fuel economy or X number of miles range on batteries merely by
> adding more batteries and a separate charging system or even using a long
> extension cord. It's a little trickier to come up with a cost-effective,
> consumer friendly and commercially viable solution.
>
> The whole story behind the electrical engineer who spent $3,000 tinkering
> on his Prius to boost the mileage to 80 MPG is that it only gets 80 MPG
> for his 20 mile commute to work, then he gets typical Prius economy after
> that.

Good point. In order to have accurate numbers for mileage, an MPG average
over a variety of trips, driving conditions and terrain would need to be
made. I could say I get infinite MPG on my way to work if it's down a steep
hill all the way and I just coast without starting the engine...
 >> Stay informed about: Why won't Toyota make a hybrid with a plug? 

"Ernie Sty" <fake_email.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:CIWdnQ-wKuqdOZbeRVn-tg@giganews.com...
>
> "Ray O" <rokigawa.TakeThisOut@tristarassociatesDOT.com> wrote in message
> news:a1875$430a2548$44a4a10d$11811@msgid.meganewsservers.com...
>> "Ernie Sty" <fake_email.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:19OdnZ2dnZ3_aAPSnZ2dne29l96dnZ2dRVn-0p2dnZ0@giganews.com...
>
>>>
>>> LOL I was assuming they meant you plug it in while it is parked to
>>> charge the batteries.
>>
>> I was just making a point that anyone could claims of giant leaps in
>> hybrid fuel economy or X number of miles range on batteries merely by
>> adding more batteries and a separate charging system or even using a long
>> extension cord. It's a little trickier to come up with a cost-effective,
>> consumer friendly and commercially viable solution.
>>
>> The whole story behind the electrical engineer who spent $3,000 tinkering
>> on his Prius to boost the mileage to 80 MPG is that it only gets 80 MPG
>> for his 20 mile commute to work, then he gets typical Prius economy after
>> that.
>
> Good point. In order to have accurate numbers for mileage, an MPG average
> over a variety of trips, driving conditions and terrain would need to be
> made. I could say I get infinite MPG on my way to work if it's down a
> steep hill all the way and I just coast without starting the engine...
>

If something sounds too good to be true...


--
Ray O
correct the return address punctuation to reply
 >> Stay informed about: Why won't Toyota make a hybrid with a plug?