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Next: Backup lights switch
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External
Since: Jul 15, 2006
Posts: 13
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 6:29 pm
Post subject: main relay vs ignition switch while driving
Archived from groups: alt>autos>honda (more info?)
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Hi,
When there is a problem with the ignition switch
the car can stop even after the engine has ignited.
(I 've experienced that already!)
Can the same thing happen when the main relay has gone
bad?
I am afraid my Honda Accord has a bad main relay.
After (if!) the engine starts, is it dangerous to drive it?
Can the car stop suddenly even while running, or a bad
main relay basically affects only the ignition process? |
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External
Since: Sep 02, 2003
Posts: 740
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 1:55 pm
Post subject: Re: main relay vs ignition switch while driving [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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michalis0.DeleteThis@gmail.com wrote in
news:1157160596.754049.189120@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> Hi,
>
> When there is a problem with the ignition switch
> the car can stop even after the engine has ignited.
> (I 've experienced that already!)
>
> Can the same thing happen when the main relay has gone
> bad?
>
> I am afraid my Honda Accord has a bad main relay.
> After (if!) the engine starts, is it dangerous to drive it?
> Can the car stop suddenly even while running, or a bad
> main relay basically affects only the ignition process?
>
>
Generally,ordinary body vibrations keep the main relay working once the
motor has started running.(and that the car's interior is usually cooler
once you have it running)
A bad relay affects the fuel pressure available;that's why the failure
moded is often "starts then immediately quits,then only cranks,no
startup,until the car sits for several minutes".
The motor uses up the stored fuel pressure,then starves and quits because
the fuel pump is not running,because the relay is not powering it.
The fuel injectors need a pressurized fuel supply rail.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net |
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External
Since: Jul 15, 2006
Posts: 13
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:22 am
Post subject: Re: main relay vs ignition switch while driving [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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So if I understand well the car can die while driving,
when there is a problematic main relay?
(it affects not only the ignition process...)
TIA
michael
Jim Yanik wrote:
> michalis0 RemoveThis @gmail.com wrote in
> news:1157160596.754049.189120@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > When there is a problem with the ignition switch
> > the car can stop even after the engine has ignited.
> > (I 've experienced that already!)
> >
> > Can the same thing happen when the main relay has gone
> > bad?
> >
> > I am afraid my Honda Accord has a bad main relay.
> > After (if!) the engine starts, is it dangerous to drive it?
> > Can the car stop suddenly even while running, or a bad
> > main relay basically affects only the ignition process?
> >
> >
>
> Generally,ordinary body vibrations keep the main relay working once the
> motor has started running.(and that the car's interior is usually cooler
> once you have it running)
>
> A bad relay affects the fuel pressure available;that's why the failure
> moded is often "starts then immediately quits,then only cranks,no
> startup,until the car sits for several minutes".
> The motor uses up the stored fuel pressure,then starves and quits because
> the fuel pump is not running,because the relay is not powering it.
>
> The fuel injectors need a pressurized fuel supply rail.
>
> --
> Jim Yanik
> jyanik
> at
> kua.net >> Stay informed about: main relay vs ignition switch while driving |
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External
Since: Sep 02, 2003
Posts: 740
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 2:55 pm
Post subject: Re: main relay vs ignition switch while driving [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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michalis0 DeleteThis @gmail.com wrote in
news:1157296923.272873.214700@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com:
> So if I understand well the car can die while driving,
> when there is a problematic main relay?
No,it won't "die while driving".
Not with the typical main relay failure mode.
>> Generally,ordinary body vibrations keep the main relay working once
>> the motor has started running.(and that the car's interior is usually
>> cooler once you have it running)
> (it affects not only the ignition process...)
>
> TIA
> michael
>
> Jim Yanik wrote:
>> michalis0 DeleteThis @gmail.com wrote in
>> news:1157160596.754049.189120@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>>
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > When there is a problem with the ignition switch
>> > the car can stop even after the engine has ignited.
>> > (I 've experienced that already!)
>> >
>> > Can the same thing happen when the main relay has gone
>> > bad?
>> >
>> > I am afraid my Honda Accord has a bad main relay.
>> > After (if!) the engine starts, is it dangerous to drive it?
>> > Can the car stop suddenly even while running, or a bad
>> > main relay basically affects only the ignition process?
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Generally,ordinary body vibrations keep the main relay working once
>> the motor has started running.(and that the car's interior is usually
>> cooler once you have it running)
>>
>> A bad relay affects the fuel pressure available;that's why the
>> failure moded is often "starts then immediately quits,then only
>> cranks,no startup,until the car sits for several minutes".
>> The motor uses up the stored fuel pressure,then starves and quits
>> because the fuel pump is not running,because the relay is not
>> powering it.
>>
>> The fuel injectors need a pressurized fuel supply rail.
>>
>> --
>> Jim Yanik
>> jyanik
>> at
>> kua.net
>
>
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net >> Stay informed about: main relay vs ignition switch while driving |
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External
Since: Aug 20, 2006
Posts: 1210
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 4:17 pm
Post subject: Re: main relay vs ignition switch while driving [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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michalis0 DeleteThis @gmail.com wrote:
> Hi,
>
> When there is a problem with the ignition switch
> the car can stop even after the engine has ignited.
> (I 've experienced that already!)
>
> Can the same thing happen when the main relay has gone
> bad?
>
> I am afraid my Honda Accord has a bad main relay.
> After (if!) the engine starts, is it dangerous to drive it?
> Can the car stop suddenly even while running, or a bad
> main relay basically affects only the ignition process?
>
kindly indicate the model and age and mileage - it helps a lot in giving
you the advice you seek.
usually, if it dies while driving, it's the ignition switch - main
relays prevent starting, but not running, in my experience at any rate. >> Stay informed about: main relay vs ignition switch while driving |
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External
Since: Dec 15, 2004
Posts: 90
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:55 pm
Post subject: Re: main relay vs ignition switch while driving [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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jim beam wrote:
> michalis0.DeleteThis@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> When there is a problem with the ignition switch
>> the car can stop even after the engine has ignited.
>> (I 've experienced that already!)
>>
>> Can the same thing happen when the main relay has gone
>> bad?
>>
>> I am afraid my Honda Accord has a bad main relay.
>> After (if!) the engine starts, is it dangerous to drive it?
>> Can the car stop suddenly even while running, or a bad
>> main relay basically affects only the ignition process?
>>
> kindly indicate the model and age and mileage - it helps a lot in giving
> you the advice you seek.
>
> usually, if it dies while driving, it's the ignition switch - main
> relays prevent starting, but not running, in my experience at any rate.
The main relay, IIRC, controls both starter and injectors... an intermittant one
could most certainly affect running... >> Stay informed about: main relay vs ignition switch while driving |
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External
Since: Sep 02, 2003
Posts: 740
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:55 pm
Post subject: Re: main relay vs ignition switch while driving [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Matt Ion <soundy.RemoveThis@moltenimage.com> wrote in
news:0d2Lg.502068$Mn5.43715@pd7tw3no:
> jim beam wrote:
>> michalis0.RemoveThis@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> When there is a problem with the ignition switch
>>> the car can stop even after the engine has ignited.
>>> (I 've experienced that already!)
>>>
>>> Can the same thing happen when the main relay has gone
>>> bad?
>>>
>>> I am afraid my Honda Accord has a bad main relay.
>>> After (if!) the engine starts, is it dangerous to drive it?
>>> Can the car stop suddenly even while running, or a bad
>>> main relay basically affects only the ignition process?
>>>
>> kindly indicate the model and age and mileage - it helps a lot in
>> giving you the advice you seek.
>>
>> usually, if it dies while driving, it's the ignition switch - main
>> relays prevent starting, but not running, in my experience at any
>> rate.
>
> The main relay, IIRC, controls both starter and injectors... an
> intermittant one could most certainly affect running...
>
When you are driving,the interior is not as hot as when the car has been
closed up for awhile,and normal running vibrations keep the relay working.
No one here has ever reported having their main relay cut out their car -
while running-,only when it's been sitting,and more often in hot weather.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net >> Stay informed about: main relay vs ignition switch while driving |
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External
Since: Mar 06, 2004
Posts: 385
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:55 pm
Post subject: Re: main relay vs ignition switch while driving [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Jim Yanik wrote:
> When you are driving,the interior is not as hot as when the car has been
> closed up for awhile and normal running vibrations keep the relay working.
> No one here has ever reported having their main relay cut out their car -
> while running, only when it's been sitting, and more often in hot weather.
>
> --
> Jim Yanik
-------------------------------
Precisely.
'Curly' >> Stay informed about: main relay vs ignition switch while driving |
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External
Since: Dec 15, 2004
Posts: 90
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:55 am
Post subject: Re: main relay vs ignition switch while driving [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Jim Yanik wrote:
> Matt Ion <soundy RemoveThis @moltenimage.com> wrote in
> news:0d2Lg.502068$Mn5.43715@pd7tw3no:
>
>
>>jim beam wrote:
>>
>>>michalis0@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hi,
>>>>
>>>>When there is a problem with the ignition switch
>>>>the car can stop even after the engine has ignited.
>>>>(I 've experienced that already!)
>>>>
>>>>Can the same thing happen when the main relay has gone
>>>>bad?
>>>>
>>>>I am afraid my Honda Accord has a bad main relay.
>>>>After (if!) the engine starts, is it dangerous to drive it?
>>>>Can the car stop suddenly even while running, or a bad
>>>>main relay basically affects only the ignition process?
>>>>
>>>
>>>kindly indicate the model and age and mileage - it helps a lot in
>>>giving you the advice you seek.
>>>
>>>usually, if it dies while driving, it's the ignition switch - main
>>>relays prevent starting, but not running, in my experience at any
>>>rate.
>>
>>The main relay, IIRC, controls both starter and injectors... an
>>intermittant one could most certainly affect running...
>>
>
>
> When you are driving,the interior is not as hot as when the car has been
> closed up for awhile,and normal running vibrations keep the relay working.
> No one here has ever reported having their main relay cut out their car -
> while running-,only when it's been sitting,and more often in hot weather.
True enough, but just because no-one has reported it here doesn't mean it
couldn't happen, or hasn't happened. The fact is, the main relay energizes the
injectors, and thus COULD cause a problem with the car running. And if one is
counting on "vibrations" to "keep the relay working", I'd be very concerned
about vibrations keeping it FROM working normally as well - such a device in a
car should be virtually impervious to vibrations, period. >> Stay informed about: main relay vs ignition switch while driving |
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External
Since: Jul 15, 2006
Posts: 13
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 9:48 am
Post subject: Re: main relay vs ignition switch while driving [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Honda Accord '94, ~90K miles.
I changed already the ignition switch!
> kindly indicate the model and age and mileage - it helps a lot in giving
> you the advice you seek.
>
> usually, if it dies while driving, it's the ignition switch - main
> relays prevent starting, but not running, in my experience at any rate. >> Stay informed about: main relay vs ignition switch while driving |
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External
Since: Sep 02, 2003
Posts: 740
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 10:55 pm
Post subject: Re: main relay vs ignition switch while driving [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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michalis0 RemoveThis @gmail.com wrote in
news:1157561302.318080.8340@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com:
> Honda Accord '94, ~90K miles.
> I changed already the ignition switch!
>
>> kindly indicate the model and age and mileage - it helps a lot in giving
>> you the advice you seek.
>>
>> usually, if it dies while driving, it's the ignition switch - main
>> relays prevent starting, but not running, in my experience at any rate.
>
>
I resoldered the main relay on my 94 Integra GSR about 4 years ago,no
problems since.(hot/humid central Florida)
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net >> Stay informed about: main relay vs ignition switch while driving |
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External
Since: Mar 27, 2006
Posts: 29
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:55 am
Post subject: Re: main relay vs ignition switch while driving [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Jim Yanik" <jyanik RemoveThis @abuse.gov> wrote in message news:Xns98327FC2171F4jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.83...
> Generally,ordinary body vibrations keep the main relay working once the
> motor has started running. (and that the car's interior is usually cooler
once you have it running)
I don't believe vibrations keep the main relay working once the motor
has started. At certain rpm the vibration is hardly there. ...How did you
come up with your conclusion? >> Stay informed about: main relay vs ignition switch while driving |
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External
Since: Mar 27, 2006
Posts: 29
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:55 am
Post subject: Re: main relay vs ignition switch while driving [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Jim Yanik" <jyanik.RemoveThis@abuse.gov> wrote in message news:Xns9834D160EFF56jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.86...
> No one here has ever reported having their main relay cut out their car -
> while running-,only when it's been sitting,and more often in hot weather.
Then I shall be the first. Mine stalled in traffic years ago. The indications
are the main relay shuts down prior to rpm going to zero. Had no "fuel
pump" click from the relay when the car wouldn't restart. Most people
don't report their problem because most don't know for sure. And
most often, it happens only once in a blue moon.
One other note, this car never stalls in its 280k miles of lifetime. >> Stay informed about: main relay vs ignition switch while driving |
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External
Since: Dec 15, 2004
Posts: 90
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:55 pm
Post subject: Re: main relay vs ignition switch while driving [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Burt wrote:
> "Jim Yanik" <jyanik.TakeThisOut@abuse.gov> wrote in message news:Xns98327FC2171F4jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.83...
>
>
>>Generally,ordinary body vibrations keep the main relay working once the
>>motor has started running. (and that the car's interior is usually cooler
>
> once you have it running)
>
> I don't believe vibrations keep the main relay working once the motor
> has started. At certain rpm the vibration is hardly there. ...How did you
> come up with your conclusion?
Such a relay should be designed to NOT be affected by vibrations, for good or bad. >> Stay informed about: main relay vs ignition switch while driving |
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External
Since: Dec 15, 2004
Posts: 90
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:55 pm
Post subject: Re: main relay vs ignition switch while driving [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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jim beam wrote:
> Matt Ion wrote:
>
>> Burt wrote:
>>
>>> "Jim Yanik" <jyanik.RemoveThis@abuse.gov> wrote in message
>>> news:Xns98327FC2171F4jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.83...
>>>
>>>
>>>> Generally,ordinary body vibrations keep the main relay working once the
>>>> motor has started running. (and that the car's interior is usually
>>>> cooler
>>>
>>>
>>> once you have it running)
>>>
>>> I don't believe vibrations keep the main relay working once the motor
>>> has started. At certain rpm the vibration is hardly there. ...How did
>>> you
>>> come up with your conclusion?
>>
>>
>> Such a relay should be designed to NOT be affected by vibrations, for
>> good or bad.
>
>
> come on matt, there's limits to that. vibrations at what frequency?
> what g's? how much do you want to spend?
Don't be silly... I was responding to the assertion that the vibrations help to
keep the relay working right. That's just silly - if a relay is RELYING on
vibrations from the running car to work properly, it's either faulty, or a
really poor design to begin with.
> besides, it's not vibration that causes the solder to crack - it's thermal cycling.
Or a combination thereof... >> Stay informed about: main relay vs ignition switch while driving |
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