Someone please help!!

In article <TnkYj.482$ju1.374@trndny06>, "Rodan" <Rodan RemoveThis @verizon.NOT>
wrote:

> Mike Hunt must be a god here.

Nope, just an incoherent moron with lots of tall tales but no
credibility.
 >> Stay informed about: Someone please help!! 

On Sun, 18 May 2008 11:15:07 -0400, "Mike hunt" <mikehunt22 RemoveThis @lycos.com>
wrote:

>If it were me I would take the vehicle to a combatant shop, with the proper
>diagnostic equipment, that can determines WHY the CAT NEEDS to be cleaning
>things up. Apparently he CAT is trying to do more than that for which it
>was designed. Obviously the fuel/air is operating outside of the design
>specs, if the CAT can not clean up the exhaust. The problem could be as
>simple as a bad plug or two.

I assume you mean COMPETENT shop.
I suspect the one she is using IS competent, and the reduction bed of
the factory cat is dead. Adding a reduction bed cat would likely solve
the problem, for now - but it really should have the "3 way" catalyst
replaced. The reduction cat will not work properly if too far from the
manifold as it needs to run hot, The oxydation bed of the 3 way cat
makes sure the reduction bed runs hot enough to function.
>
>"cmanke" <none RemoveThis @000.com> wrote in message
>news:1203373_16d8a0216689f50c4c2cca3cc2c0c9c0@0000.com...
>> My 1996 Ford Windstar has failed aircare due to high NOx emissions. I
>> have already tried the stupid tricks that BTW, DONT WORK. Anyway,
>> the mechanic told me its the cat converter. He also told me it will
>> be $900 for me to fix it.
>>
>> His explanation was that FORD has put two cat converters into the
>> windstar and that the Universal cat converter cannot be installed. He
>> said there was actually room for a third cat converter that he could
>> install and that would be $200 plus labour...seems a little fishy to
>> me to install a third to clean up what the two arent doing, but w/e.
>>
>> Apparently he has cleaned up the valves (something to do with the
>> EGR), that the EGR itself was fine and my Ox sensors were also working
>> fine. It has to be the cat converter he says.
>>
>> So now, I am a mother with 4 children 6 and under and NO VEHICLE
>> because I cant pass aircare and I have a mechanic who wants to mark
>> up the parts my van needs. Can someone please tell me if the
>> universal cat converter can actually be installed (if it cant then
>> why would they make it?!?!?!). Its a 3.8L, automatic transmission,
>> a/c 1996 Ford Windstar.
>

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
 >> Stay informed about: Someone please help!! 

On Sun, 18 May 2008 12:35:11 -0500, aarcuda69062
<nonelson RemoveThis @sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>In article <aeadnZKoY6ad1a3VnZ2dnUVZ_qDinZ2d RemoveThis @ptd.net>,
> "Mike hunt" <mikehunt22 RemoveThis @lycos.com> wrote:
>
>> If it were me I would take the vehicle to a combatant shop,
>
>She should look for guns and knives and an owner with a black eye?
>
>> with the proper
>> diagnostic equipment, that can determines WHY the CAT NEEDS to be cleaning
>> things up.
>
>That's what catalytic converters do.
>However; that is NOT what guns and knives do.
>
>> Apparently he CAT is trying to do more than that for which it
>> was designed. Obviously the fuel/air is operating outside of the design
>> specs,
>
>It's not obvious at all unless you see some test numbers in her post
>that I don't.
>
>> if the CAT can not clean up the exhaust. The problem could be as
>> simple as a bad plug or two.
>
>Gee, you'd think she would have mentioned the rough running symptom.
And a bad plug, or 2 or even 6 will NOT make high NOX.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
 >> Stay informed about: Someone please help!! 

"cmanke" <none.DeleteThis@000.com> wrote in message
news:1203373_16d8a0216689f50c4c2cca3cc2c0c9c0@0000.com...
> My 1996 Ford Windstar has failed aircare due to high NOx emissions. I
> have already tried the stupid tricks that BTW, DON'T WORK. Anyway,
> the mechanic told me it's the cat converter. He also told me it will
> be $900 for me to fix it.
>
> His explanation was that FORD has put two cat converters into the
> windstar and that the Universal cat converter cannot be installed. He
> said there was actually room for a third cat converter that he could
> install and that would be $200 plus labour...seems a little fishy to
> me to install a third to clean up what the two aren't doing, but w/e.
>
> Apparently he has cleaned up the valves (something to do with the
> EGR), that the EGR itself was fine and my Ox sensors were also working
> fine. It has to be the cat converter he says.
>
> So now, I am a mother with 4 children 6 and under and NO VEHICLE
> because I can't pass aircare and I have a mechanic who wants to mark
> up the parts my van needs. Can someone please tell me if the
> universal cat converter can actually be installed (if it can't then
> why would they make it?!?!?!). It's a 3.8L, automatic transmission,
> a/c 1996 Ford Windstar.

It very well could be the front O2 sensor(s). Even if it looks ok on the
scanner. If he can garrantee it will pass with a third CAT that seems to be
a cheap fix. I have never heard of doing that. You might ask the smog place
about that one....Oh, and a universal type CAT around here is about $130
installed. $200 plus labor sounds way high. You might ask him about the CAT
getting hot enough to work when its install a little farther back than
normal too. Like I said, thats a new one to me.......Can you post the
readings? like HC, CO, NOx, O2........we might be able to tell whats
up....p.s. what tricks did you try? Just curious..
 >> Stay informed about: Someone please help!! 

I suspect it is NOT competent or they would be looking to determine WHY it
is not doing its job rather than simply suggesting it be replaced... I
would take it to a shop that made that determination first, but that's just
me

<clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada> wrote in message
news:b69434l3enequdhrddrfnn8kk0inru5gjb@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 18 May 2008 11:15:07 -0400, "Mike hunt" <mikehunt22 RemoveThis @lycos.com>
> wrote:
>
>>If it were me I would take the vehicle to a combatant shop, with the
>>proper
>>diagnostic equipment, that can determines WHY the CAT NEEDS to be cleaning
>>things up. Apparently he CAT is trying to do more than that for which
>>it
>>was designed. Obviously the fuel/air is operating outside of the design
>>specs, if the CAT can not clean up the exhaust. The problem could be as
>>simple as a bad plug or two.
>
> I assume you mean COMPETENT shop.
> I suspect the one she is using IS competent, and the reduction bed of
> the factory cat is dead. Adding a reduction bed cat would likely solve
> the problem, for now - but it really should have the "3 way" catalyst
> replaced. The reduction cat will not work properly if too far from the
> manifold as it needs to run hot, The oxydation bed of the 3 way cat
> makes sure the reduction bed runs hot enough to function.
>>
>>"cmanke" <none RemoveThis @000.com> wrote in message
>>news:1203373_16d8a0216689f50c4c2cca3cc2c0c9c0@0000.com...
>>> My 1996 Ford Windstar has failed aircare due to high NOx emissions. I
>>> have already tried the stupid tricks that BTW, DONT WORK. Anyway,
>>> the mechanic told me its the cat converter. He also told me it will
>>> be $900 for me to fix it.
>>>
>>> His explanation was that FORD has put two cat converters into the
>>> windstar and that the Universal cat converter cannot be installed. He
>>> said there was actually room for a third cat converter that he could
>>> install and that would be $200 plus labour...seems a little fishy to
>>> me to install a third to clean up what the two arent doing, but w/e.
>>>
>>> Apparently he has cleaned up the valves (something to do with the
>>> EGR), that the EGR itself was fine and my Ox sensors were also working
>>> fine. It has to be the cat converter he says.
>>>
>>> So now, I am a mother with 4 children 6 and under and NO VEHICLE
>>> because I cant pass aircare and I have a mechanic who wants to mark
>>> up the parts my van needs. Can someone please tell me if the
>>> universal cat converter can actually be installed (if it cant then
>>> why would they make it?!?!?!). Its a 3.8L, automatic transmission,
>>> a/c 1996 Ford Windstar.
>>
>
> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
 >> Stay informed about: Someone please help!! 

This message is not archived
 >> Stay informed about: Someone please help!! 

On Mon, 19 May 2008 21:34:50 -0400, "Mike hunt" <mikehunt22.DeleteThis@lycos.com>
wrote:

>I suspect it is NOT competent or they would be looking to determine WHY it
>is not doing its job rather than simply suggesting it be replaced... I
>would take it to a shop that made that determination first, but that's just
>me
>

Well, I'm a mechanic.
If the EGR is working right, the HC and CO are in range, and the
engine is not running hot, with no CEL lit, the only thing left is the
cat. And they DO wear out over time.
It IS possible, with a gas analyzer, to check the NOX pre-cat and
post-cat and see what the cat is doing, if anything. Looking at the
numbers, I'd say there is a good chance the oxidation catalyst is
getting a bit weak too - I'm suspicious the vehicle has been badly
neglected, and the WinStar was no gem right from new - but a new
converter will, in all likelihood, get the vehicle to pass NOW, and if
nothing else happens, likely still produce a pass in 2 years. She says
it has a "new" engine in it.
We don't know if it was "new", "rebuilt", "reconditioned", or just
"different"
We don't know if it is a 3.0 or a 3.8.
3.8 engines dropped like flies - 3.0 engines were pretty decent.
><clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada> wrote in message
>news:b69434l3enequdhrddrfnn8kk0inru5gjb@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 18 May 2008 11:15:07 -0400, "Mike hunt" <mikehunt22.DeleteThis@lycos.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>If it were me I would take the vehicle to a combatant shop, with the
>>>proper
>>>diagnostic equipment, that can determines WHY the CAT NEEDS to be cleaning
>>>things up. Apparently he CAT is trying to do more than that for which
>>>it
>>>was designed. Obviously the fuel/air is operating outside of the design
>>>specs, if the CAT can not clean up the exhaust. The problem could be as
>>>simple as a bad plug or two.
>>
>> I assume you mean COMPETENT shop.
>> I suspect the one she is using IS competent, and the reduction bed of
>> the factory cat is dead. Adding a reduction bed cat would likely solve
>> the problem, for now - but it really should have the "3 way" catalyst
>> replaced. The reduction cat will not work properly if too far from the
>> manifold as it needs to run hot, The oxydation bed of the 3 way cat
>> makes sure the reduction bed runs hot enough to function.
>>>
>>>"cmanke" <none.DeleteThis@000.com> wrote in message
>>>news:1203373_16d8a0216689f50c4c2cca3cc2c0c9c0@0000.com...
>>>> My 1996 Ford Windstar has failed aircare due to high NOx emissions. I
>>>> have already tried the stupid tricks that BTW, DONT WORK. Anyway,
>>>> the mechanic told me its the cat converter. He also told me it will
>>>> be $900 for me to fix it.
>>>>
>>>> His explanation was that FORD has put two cat converters into the
>>>> windstar and that the Universal cat converter cannot be installed. He
>>>> said there was actually room for a third cat converter that he could
>>>> install and that would be $200 plus labour...seems a little fishy to
>>>> me to install a third to clean up what the two arent doing, but w/e.
>>>>
>>>> Apparently he has cleaned up the valves (something to do with the
>>>> EGR), that the EGR itself was fine and my Ox sensors were also working
>>>> fine. It has to be the cat converter he says.
>>>>
>>>> So now, I am a mother with 4 children 6 and under and NO VEHICLE
>>>> because I cant pass aircare and I have a mechanic who wants to mark
>>>> up the parts my van needs. Can someone please tell me if the
>>>> universal cat converter can actually be installed (if it cant then
>>>> why would they make it?!?!?!). Its a 3.8L, automatic transmission,
>>>> a/c 1996 Ford Windstar.
>>>
>>
>> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
>

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
 >> Stay informed about: Someone please help!! 

When I said new engine, I meant brand new out of the box, it's a 3.8L as per my original post.

I don't know what you mean about badly neglected...is there something I'm supposed to do other than the regular oil changes?

The engine was replaced when I bought the vehicle, they were trying to sell it with a blown head gasket, since I wasn't about to buy it that way, they put in a brand new engine. The transmission they put in was used.

The first time I took it to aircare I passed just fine. It's been two years and now I am failing. Unfortunately I can't just buy a new vehicle...or I would have, a long time ago.

For the person who posted about me giving bogus prices...Ford charges about $1400 for the part AND the labour to install it. The part itself is a little over $500. I called them already, they were like, my first call when I found out. My local parts distributor (lordco) was my second.

Someone asked what "tricks" I used. Fuel injector cleaner, premium fuel and driving for a while first before going in. The next set of suggestions got outrageous, like, put ice in the air box...I didn't even bother.

The mechanic cleaned out the ports or w/e they are called...the lines that can get carbon build up and cause high readings...he drove it and it still failed (although I think he just used his gas analyzer instead of taking it through aircare).

The numbers are posted in a previous post...think it was post #9 or something
 >> Stay informed about: Someone please help!! 

On Wed, 21 May 2008 13:22:40 -0500, cmanke <none DeleteThis @000.com> wrote:

>When I said new engine, I meant brand new out of the box, it's a 3.8L
>as per my original post.
>
>I don't know what you mean about badly neglected...is there something
>I'm supposed to do other than the regular oil changes?
>
>The engine was replaced when I bought the vehicle, they were trying to
>sell it with a blown head gasket, since I wasn't about to buy it that
>way, they put in a brand new engine. The transmission they put in was
>used.

Put in the new catalitic converter and you should be good to go then.
And watch the coolant like a hawk, because coolant leaks are a common
problem on 3.8s, and they are usually "fatal" Head gaskets, intake
manifolds and front covers have a tendancy to leak on them.
>


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
 >> Stay informed about: Someone please help!! 

"My car wont 'crank'". To some, this means the motor wont turn over... to
others it means the motor will turn over but it wont start..."

That one drives me absolutly nuts!!!!! You get a call on the phone and your
wife says, " it won't turn over". So, you say, " You turn the key and
nothing happens?" Yeah, "Something happens .. the motor makes that sound."
You say, "OK, so, let me get this straight .. you turn the key and the motor
turns over but just won't start, right?" "And not only won't it turn over,
but I hear a clicking sound sometimes." "You mean when trying to start it?"
"No, that was when I started it up this morning in the driveway, but it quit
a few minutes later." "So, is it still doing it?" "No, not now,
while I'm trying to get it to turn over."
 >> Stay informed about: Someone please help!! 

"Jim Warman" wrote:

> Mikes spelling mistake isn't going to be the ruin of the Earth.

That should be "Mike's".
 >> Stay informed about: Someone please help!! 

What about that 3rd CAT trick? ANYONE ever heard of doing that and is it
legal?
I'm curious as hell bout that one...

p.s. for the record I would through an O2 at it in a heartbeat first.


"cmanke" <none RemoveThis @000.com> wrote in message
news:1203373_16d8a0216689f50c4c2cca3cc2c0c9c0@0000.com...
> My 1996 Ford Windstar has failed aircare due to high NOx emissions. I
> have already tried the stupid tricks that BTW, DON'T WORK. Anyway,
> the mechanic told me it's the cat converter. He also told me it will
> be $900 for me to fix it.
>
> His explanation was that FORD has put two cat converters into the
> windstar and that the Universal cat converter cannot be installed. He
> said there was actually room for a third cat converter that he could
> install and that would be $200 plus labour...seems a little fishy to
> me to install a third to clean up what the two aren't doing, but w/e.
>
> Apparently he has cleaned up the valves (something to do with the
> EGR), that the EGR itself was fine and my Ox sensors were also working
> fine. It has to be the cat converter he says.
>
> So now, I am a mother with 4 children 6 and under and NO VEHICLE
> because I can't pass aircare and I have a mechanic who wants to mark
> up the parts my van needs. Can someone please tell me if the
> universal cat converter can actually be installed (if it can't then
> why would they make it?!?!?!). It's a 3.8L, automatic transmission,
> a/c 1996 Ford Windstar.
 >> Stay informed about: Someone please help!! 

On Fri, 23 May 2008 08:56:04 -0700, "ScottM" <no.TakeThisOut@no.com> wrote:

>What about that 3rd CAT trick? ANYONE ever heard of doing that and is it
>legal?
>I'm curious as hell bout that one...
>
>p.s. for the record I would through an O2 at it in a heartbeat first.
>
>
>"cmanke" <none.TakeThisOut@000.com> wrote in message
>news:1203373_16d8a0216689f50c4c2cca3cc2c0c9c0@0000.com...
>> My 1996 Ford Windstar has failed aircare due to high NOx emissions. I
>> have already tried the stupid tricks that BTW, DON'T WORK. Anyway,
>> the mechanic told me it's the cat converter. He also told me it will
>> be $900 for me to fix it.
>>
>> His explanation was that FORD has put two cat converters into the
>> windstar and that the Universal cat converter cannot be installed. He
>> said there was actually room for a third cat converter that he could
>> install and that would be $200 plus labour...seems a little fishy to
>> me to install a third to clean up what the two aren't doing, but w/e.
>>
>> Apparently he has cleaned up the valves (something to do with the
>> EGR), that the EGR itself was fine and my Ox sensors were also working
>> fine. It has to be the cat converter he says.
>>
>> So now, I am a mother with 4 children 6 and under and NO VEHICLE
>> because I can't pass aircare and I have a mechanic who wants to mark
>> up the parts my van needs. Can someone please tell me if the
>> universal cat converter can actually be installed (if it can't then
>> why would they make it?!?!?!). It's a 3.8L, automatic transmission,
>> a/c 1996 Ford Windstar.
>
I've heard of it, and it is legal. So is putting a cat on a vehicle
that never had one.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
 >> Stay informed about: Someone please help!!