Someone please help!!

In article ,
"Mike hunt" wrote:

> If it were me I would take the vehicle to a combatant shop,

She should look for guns and knives and an owner with a black eye?

> with the proper
> diagnostic equipment, that can determines WHY the CAT NEEDS to be cleaning
> things up.

That's what catalytic converters do.
However; that is NOT what guns and knives do.

> Apparently he CAT is trying to do more than that for which it
> was designed. Obviously the fuel/air is operating outside of the design
> specs,

It's not obvious at all unless you see some test numbers in her post
that I don't.

> if the CAT can not clean up the exhaust. The problem could be as
> simple as a bad plug or two.

Gee, you'd think she would have mentioned the rough running symptom.
 >> Stay informed about: Someone please help!! 

"cmanke" wrote in message

> My 1996 Ford Windstar has failed aircare due to high NOx emissions. I
> have already tried the stupid tricks that BTW, DON’T WORK. Anyway,
> the mechanic told me it’s the cat converter. He also told me it will
> be $900 for me to fix it.
>
> His explanation was that FORD has put two cat converters into the
> windstar and that the Universal cat converter cannot be installed. He
> said there was actually room for a third cat converter that he could
> install and that would be $200 plus labour...seems a little fishy to
> me to install a third to clean up what the two aren’t doing, but w/e.
>
> Apparently he has cleaned up the valves (something to do with the
> EGR), that the EGR itself was fine and my Ox sensors were also working
> fine. It has to be the cat converter he says.
>
> So now, I am a mother with 4 children 6 and under and NO VEHICLE
> because I can’t pass aircare and I have a mechanic who wants to mark
> up the parts my van needs. Can someone please tell me if the
> universal cat converter can actually be installed (if it can’t then
> why would they make it?!?!?!). It’s a 3.8L, automatic transmission,
> a/c 1996 Ford Windstar.

Even "IF" the cat were the problem, adding a third to supplement the two
worn out cats isn't a good idea. An old cat can be rotten and crusting up
inside. The small bits and pieces can plug up the new one if it is mounted
downstream. Also, depending on the smog check tech that you get, you might
be gigged for having three instead of two. He is supposed to look under
there and check for things like that.

As Jim said,"BEFORE the cat is replaced, it is crucial that the EGR (exhaust
gas
recirculation) system be thoroughly tested to ensure that it is functioning
as required." The EGR replaces air to the intake of the engine by
substituting exhaust gas that is low in oxygen. This keeps the combustion
temperature down, which lessens the creation of NOx. Better to pay to have
it checked out at a place that deals only with smog issues. You might get
lucky and have two cats that are purring fine and only have a small problem
with the EGR system.
 >> Stay informed about: Someone please help!! 

On May 18, 11:15 am, "Mike hunt" wrote:
> If it were me I would take the vehicle to a combatant shop, with the proper
> diagnostic equipment, that can determines WHY the CAT NEEDS to be cleaning
> things up.     Apparently he CAT is trying to do more than that for which it
> was designed.  Obviously the fuel/air is operating outside of the design
> specs, if the CAT can not clean up the exhaust.  The problem could be as
> simple as a bad plug or two.
>
> "cmanke" wrote in message
>
>
>
>
>
> > My 1996 Ford Windstar has failed aircare due to high NOx emissions.  I
> > have already tried the stupid tricks that BTW, DON T WORK.  Anyway,
> > the mechanic told me it s the cat converter.  He also told me it will
> > be $900 for me to fix it.
>
> > His explanation was that FORD has put two cat converters into the
> > windstar and that the Universal cat converter cannot be installed.  He
> > said there was actually room for a third cat converter that he could
> > install and that would be $200 plus labour...seems a little fishy to
> > me to install a third to clean up what the two aren t doing, but w/e.
>
> > Apparently he has cleaned up the valves (something to do with the
> > EGR), that the EGR itself was fine and my Ox sensors were also working
> > fine.  It has to be the cat converter he says.
>
> > So now, I am a mother with 4 children 6 and under and NO VEHICLE
> > because I can t pass aircare and I have a mechanic who wants to mark
> > up the parts my van needs.  Can someone please tell me if the
> > universal cat converter can actually be installed (if it can t then
> > why would they make it?!?!?!).  It s a 3.8L,  automatic transmission,
> > a/c 1996 Ford Windstar.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

So monkfish; what makes you an authority on cat converters? It's
clear you do not know what is going on. If something simple like a bad
plug or two was the problem, I' sure the technician diagnosing the
problem would notice. See a bad plug or two is manifest with what is
called an engine miss, which the average driver would say it runs
rough. The technician would then be going down a different diagnostic
path.

Why aren't you asking stupid questions that have no meaning like you
do in other groups groups?
 >> Stay informed about: Someone please help!! 

"cmanke" wrote in message

> My 1996 Ford Windstar has failed aircare due to high NOx emissions. I
> have already tried the stupid tricks that BTW, DON’T WORK. Anyway,
> the mechanic told me it’s the cat converter. He also told me it will
> be $900 for me to fix it.
>
> His explanation was that FORD has put two cat converters into the
> windstar and that the Universal cat converter cannot be installed. He
> said there was actually room for a third cat converter that he could
> install and that would be $200 plus labour...seems a little fishy to
> me to install a third to clean up what the two aren’t doing, but w/e.
>
> Apparently he has cleaned up the valves (something to do with the
> EGR), that the EGR itself was fine and my Ox sensors were also working
> fine. It has to be the cat converter he says.
>
> So now, I am a mother with 4 children 6 and under and NO VEHICLE
> because I can’t pass aircare and I have a mechanic who wants to mark
> up the parts my van needs. Can someone please tell me if the
> universal cat converter can actually be installed (if it can’t then
> why would they make it?!?!?!). It’s a 3.8L, automatic transmission,
> a/c 1996 Ford Windstar.

Check out the prices for your cats here. The whole double assembly is way
under $400 with tax and shipping included, and the universal is one hell of
a lot less than the $200 that he wants for it. I have ordered from these
people a couple of times and have never had a problem. You can also google
around for a discount code. The last time I did that, I got an extra 5% off.
Good luck
 >> Stay informed about: Someone please help!! 

"Forrest" wrote in message

>
> "cmanke" wrote in message
>
>> My 1996 Ford Windstar has failed aircare due to high NOx emissions. I
>> have already tried the stupid tricks that BTW, DON’T WORK. Anyway,
>> the mechanic told me it’s the cat converter. He also told me it will
>> be $900 for me to fix it.
>>
>> His explanation was that FORD has put two cat converters into the
>> windstar and that the Universal cat converter cannot be installed. He
>> said there was actually room for a third cat converter that he could
>> install and that would be $200 plus labour...seems a little fishy to
>> me to install a third to clean up what the two aren’t doing, but w/e.
>>
>> Apparently he has cleaned up the valves (something to do with the
>> EGR), that the EGR itself was fine and my Ox sensors were also working
>> fine. It has to be the cat converter he says.
>>
>> So now, I am a mother with 4 children 6 and under and NO VEHICLE
>> because I can’t pass aircare and I have a mechanic who wants to mark
>> up the parts my van needs. Can someone please tell me if the
>> universal cat converter can actually be installed (if it can’t then
>> why would they make it?!?!?!). It’s a 3.8L, automatic transmission,
>> a/c 1996 Ford Windstar.
>
> Check out the prices for your cats here. The whole double assembly is way
> under $400 with tax and shipping included, and the universal is one hell
> of a lot less than the $200 that he wants for it. I have ordered from
> these people a couple of times and have never had a problem. You can also
> google around for a discount code. The last time I did that, I got an
> extra 5% off. Good luck

Oooops ... forgot to paste in the addy.
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php?carcode=1141636&par...pe=5808
 >> Stay informed about: Someone please help!! 

Mike hunt wrote:
> If it were me I would take the vehicle to a combatant shop,

What is a combatant shop? Is that where you buy guns and rent Army tanks?

with the proper
> diagnostic equipment, that can determines WHY the CAT NEEDS to be cleaning
> things up. Apparently he CAT is trying to do more than that for which it
> was designed. Obviously the fuel/air is operating outside of the design
> specs, if the CAT can not clean up the exhaust. The problem could be as
> simple as a bad plug or two.
>
> "cmanke" wrote in message
>
>> My 1996 Ford Windstar has failed aircare due to high NOx emissions. I
>> have already tried the stupid tricks that BTW, DONT WORK. Anyway,
>> the mechanic told me its the cat converter. He also told me it will
>> be $900 for me to fix it.
>>
>> His explanation was that FORD has put two cat converters into the
>> windstar and that the Universal cat converter cannot be installed. He
>> said there was actually room for a third cat converter that he could
>> install and that would be $200 plus labour...seems a little fishy to
>> me to install a third to clean up what the two arent doing, but w/e.
>>
>> Apparently he has cleaned up the valves (something to do with the
>> EGR), that the EGR itself was fine and my Ox sensors were also working
>> fine. It has to be the cat converter he says.
>>
>> So now, I am a mother with 4 children 6 and under and NO VEHICLE
>> because I cant pass aircare and I have a mechanic who wants to mark
>> up the parts my van needs. Can someone please tell me if the
>> universal cat converter can actually be installed (if it cant then
>> why would they make it?!?!?!). Its a 3.8L, automatic transmission,
>> a/c 1996 Ford Windstar.
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Someone please help!! 

As odd as it may sound, customers are, all to often, the cause of wasted
time (and therefore expense) because they tend to leave things out. (I have
no idea if they are hoping for a cheaper invoice by minimizing the concern,
but it sounds plausible). The tech can get into a diagnosis that starts with
some extreme basics only to discover that there is "something" the owner
hasn't mentioned. If we ask why they didn't say the car had done <this> or
does <that> too, the reply is usually "I didn't think it mattered". And this
happens nearly every day and even several times in one day... It isn't the
tech deciding how much a repair is going to cost, it is the car. The tech is
simply the messenger.

FWIW, an engine misfire is going to have a greater effect on HC and CO
production than it will on NOx production.

Any condition that can drive combustion temps up, will increase NOx
production. However, misfires can destroy the converter... The resulting
meltdown may or may not restrict the exhaust flow.

For the original poster... While I am not familiar with "universal" type
catalytic converters, these "fits all" devices aren't accurately sized for
any particuaar applications (neither physically nor in their ability to deal
with exhaust flow and/or byproducts). I've often seen owners treated to
added expense because the less costly alternative didn't quite make the
grade (I think you'll find that these aftermarket suppliers will only offer
a "replacement" warranty rather than a money back warranty).

BEFORE the cat is replaced, it is crucial that the EGR (exhaust gas
recirculation) system be thoroughly tested to ensure that it is functioning
as required. Depending on the engine in your Windstar, it may have a "ported
EGR" type system. These small passages can become plugged with carbon,
robbing some cylinders of EGR flow and causing higher than normal NOx
numbers. Extreme cases can result in a car that has a rough idle concern or
even a stumble on acceleration but it can often go un-noticed, as well. It
can take a fairly talented tech to accurately diagnose this system.

"aarcuda69062" opined in message

>
> Gee, you'd think she would have mentioned the rough running symptom.
 >> Stay informed about: Someone please help!! 

"Jim Warman" wrote in message

>
> BEFORE the cat is replaced, it is crucial that the EGR (exhaust gas
> recirculation) system be thoroughly tested to ensure that it is
functioning
> as required. Depending on the engine in your Windstar, it may have a
"ported
> EGR" type system. These small passages can become plugged with carbon,
> robbing some cylinders of EGR flow and causing higher than normal NOx
> numbers. Extreme cases can result in a car that has a rough idle concern
or
> even a stumble on acceleration but it can often go un-noticed, as well. It
> can take a fairly talented tech to accurately diagnose this system.

It's pretty simple to check if a ported egr system is clogged, just actuate
the EGR valve at idle, if the engine does not change speed and the valve is
good,
the ports are plugged. What requires a talented tech is when the ports are
NOT plugged, and the valve IS good, and there are no vacuum leaks and
the EGR valve is still not actuating.

Unfortunately, the real problem here is that in so many of these smog check
things, a lot of mekaniks* have discovered if you slap a new, universal
cat in there, it's typically a NOX and HC reducing cat - and it will get
them past the smog check - then 6 months later when the universal is
burned out because the underlying problem with the engine was never
corrected, if the customer comes back the mekanik* just replaces the
universal with straight pipe and gets his $100 from the catcon recycling
people. Then they are good for another 2 years until the next smog check,
and by then since the engine was never fixed properly, it's likely died and
the car is in a wrecking yard.

The OP didn't say the mileage on this van but it's probably not been
maintained,
and the rings are worn and the thing is burning oil. The car probably also
has high HC's which they are masking with the usual trick of throwing
a couple cans of drygas into the tank. The mekanik* is probably figuring
the van is about at the end of it's life and will go any day.

Ted


* mekanik: hayseed pretending to be a real mechanic.
 >> Stay informed about: Someone please help!! 

Every once in a while one of the spark plugs falls out and I have to put it back in, but other than that the idle seems to be fine. I'm not sure what misfiring is but I assume to someone like myself it would just run "rough". Occasionally, it does, then I restart it and it's fine.

The mechanic is " aircare certified" which means he has a gas analyzer and a relatively good record for repairs relating to aircare. He said the EGR and system is fine, although on the invoice it says he repaired vacume leak. Apparently he cleaned out the "ports" that can build up causing high NOx emissions. The only explanation I got was everything else works the way it's supposed to so my cat converter is shot.

I don't think he's neccesarily wrong, the head gasket went on my van prior to me purchasing it, a new engine was put in...I've replaced two transmissions...a radiator...a couple batteries, an alternator, the berring on the front right 2 or 3 times now...

I've owned this car for 3-4 years.

I am frequently asked if my engine light is on, it's not. For the most part the vehicle seems to run relatively smooth. My dash lights are out, not sure if it's electrical or just the bulbs, and frankly I don't have the money for a technician to figure it out.

I have bad luck with mechanics, they always try to scam me...it's really quite frusterating, I may not know about vehicles but I'm not stupid. I did a little checking around for parts and I can get a ford cat converter locally for $500. The mechanic wanted $628 for his, tried telling me that his distributor is giving him a discount on this price...which is BS because I called the same person he did and without a discount on the part is $500 and some change.

If it will help...here are the numbers. I did two tests...

Day 1:

HC (g/km), max allowed 0.5000, vehicle reading 0.3193, avg pass 0.0873

CO (g/km), max allowed 8.0800, vehicle reading 2.8459, avg pass 1.9758

NOx (g/km) Max allowed 1.1200, vehicle reading 1.4698, avg pass 0.6229

I was advised to put fuel injecrot cleaner into my tank and premium fuel, then drive to heat up the cat...drove for over an hour

Day 2:

HC (g/km), Max allowed 0.5000, vehicle reading 0.2357, avg pass 0.0873

CO (g/km), Max allowed 8.0800, vehicle reading 2.3989, avg pass 1.9758

NOx (g/km), Max allowed 1.1200, vehicle reading 1.6969, avg pass 0.6229
 >> Stay informed about: Someone please help!! 

In article ,
cmanke wrote:

> Every once in a while one of the spark plugs falls out and I have to
> put it back in, but other than that the idle seems to be fine. I’m
> not sure what misfiring is but I assume to someone like myself it
> would just run "rough". Occasionally, it does, then I restart it
> and it’s fine.

Ignore Mike Hunt, he thinks he knows about auto repair.

> The mechanic is " aircare certified" which means he has a gas
> analyzer and a relatively good record for repairs relating to aircare.
> He said the EGR and system is fine, although on the invoice it says
> he repaired vacume leak. Apparently he cleaned out the "ports" that
> can build up causing high NOx emissions. The only explanation I got
> was everything else works the way it’s supposed to so my cat converter
> is shot.

He shouldn't be guessing in that he can measure the NOx -before- the cat
and compare the readings to the post cat sample to determine whether the
reducing bed is working as it should.

> I don’t think he’s neccesarily wrong, the head gasket went on my van
> prior to me purchasing it, a new engine was put in...I’ve replaced two
> transmissions...a radiator...a couple batteries, an alternator, the
> berring on the front right 2 or 3 times now...

Coolant will poison a catalytic converter.

> I’ve owned this car for 3-4 years.
>
> I am frequently asked if my engine light is on, it’s not. For the
> most part the vehicle seems to run relatively smooth. My dash lights
> are out, not sure if it’s electrical or just the bulbs, and frankly I
> don’t have the money for a technician to figure it out.
>
> I have bad luck with mechanics, they always try to scam me...it’s
> really quite frusterating, I may not know about vehicles but I’m not
> stupid. I did a little checking around for parts and I can get a ford
> cat converter locally for $500. The mechanic wanted $628 for his,
> tried telling me that his distributor is giving him a discount on this
> price...which is BS because I called the same person he did and
> without a discount on the part is $500 and some change.

Neither price sound legitimate.
My parts look up lists Ford part number F68Z-5F250-AAD catalytic
converter assembly with a list price of $1447.80

> If it will help...here are the numbers. I did two tests...
>
> Day 1:
>
> HC (g/km), max allowed 0.5000, vehicle reading 0.3193, avg pass 0.0873
>
> CO (g/km), max allowed 8.0800, vehicle reading 2.8459, avg pass 1.9758
>
> NOx (g/km) Max allowed 1.1200, vehicle reading 1.4698, avg pass 0.6229

Looks to have control of fuel, HC isn't high so there's probably no
misfire.

> I was advised to put fuel injecrot cleaner into my tank and premium
> fuel, then drive to heat up the cat...drove for over an hour
>
> Day 2:
>
> HC (g/km), Max allowed 0.5000, vehicle reading 0.2357, avg pass
> 0.0873
>
> CO (g/km), Max allowed 8.0800, vehicle reading 2.3989, avg pass 1.9758
>
> NOx (g/km), Max allowed 1.1200, vehicle reading 1.6969, avg pass
> 0.6229

NOx went up. Stop dumping magic elixir in the tank.
 >> Stay informed about: Someone please help!! 

In article ,
"Jim Warman" wrote:

> As odd as it may sound, customers are, all to often, the cause of wasted
> time (and therefore expense) because they tend to leave things out. (I have
> no idea if they are hoping for a cheaper invoice by minimizing the concern,
> but it sounds plausible). The tech can get into a diagnosis that starts with
> some extreme basics only to discover that there is "something" the owner
> hasn't mentioned. If we ask why they didn't say the car had done <this> or
> does <that> too, the reply is usually "I didn't think it mattered". And this
> happens nearly every day and even several times in one day... It isn't the
> tech deciding how much a repair is going to cost, it is the car. The tech is
> simply the messenger.
>
> FWIW, an engine misfire is going to have a greater effect on HC and CO
> production than it will on NOx production.
>
> Any condition that can drive combustion temps up, will increase NOx
> production. However, misfires can destroy the converter... The resulting
> meltdown may or may not restrict the exhaust flow.
>
> For the original poster... While I am not familiar with "universal" type
> catalytic converters, these "fits all" devices aren't accurately sized for
> any particuaar applications (neither physically nor in their ability to deal
> with exhaust flow and/or byproducts). I've often seen owners treated to
> added expense because the less costly alternative didn't quite make the
> grade (I think you'll find that these aftermarket suppliers will only offer
> a "replacement" warranty rather than a money back warranty).
>
> BEFORE the cat is replaced, it is crucial that the EGR (exhaust gas
> recirculation) system be thoroughly tested to ensure that it is functioning
> as required. Depending on the engine in your Windstar, it may have a "ported
> EGR" type system. These small passages can become plugged with carbon,
> robbing some cylinders of EGR flow and causing higher than normal NOx
> numbers. Extreme cases can result in a car that has a rough idle concern or
> even a stumble on acceleration but it can often go un-noticed, as well. It
> can take a fairly talented tech to accurately diagnose this system.

Good post Jim.
 >> Stay informed about: Someone please help!! 

Sounds like you have a reasonable and acceptable diagnosis. You are under
no obligation to have that shop complete the repair. You should pay him for
the labor and diagnostic services he as already rendered and go out to the
yellow pages and call about 5 smog and or muffler repair shops. Ask them if
the description of the problem and other shop's solution sounds reasonable
(i.e how its better to add a third than replace the original) and of course,
how much would they charge to fix it. Compare those quotes to your original
shop and give it to the one you can trust and afford it may be the original
shop. If the diagnosis is correct, anyone can finish the job.

Your mechanic's shop labor rate and markup are what they are and he uses
those guidelines to quote his repair. His quote is not BS, he may have more
overhard to support, give a better warranty, use new parts etc that may
justify a higher price. If he choses to give a discount on labor, that
would be nice but he is not obligated. Just look for another shop to do the
repair but few places will let you give them parts to put in. For example,
if you come in with a cat converter (of whatever source) and insist they
install it and then later you still fail smog check (that's what we call
aircare in CA) then you may not want to pay him but you should. You may
claim that it was a wrong diagnosis and the only way to prove it would be to
replace the cat again with a reliable source, an obvoiusly inefficient and
painful course.

Frankly, it sounds like you need a new vehicle but I understand economics
may not allow that. It may be that two or more things have failed based on
the repair history. A new engine throws a lot of variables into why the CAT
failed in the first place.





"cmanke" wrote in message

> Every once in a while one of the spark plugs falls out and I have to
> put it back in, but other than that the idle seems to be fine. I'm
> not sure what misfiring is but I assume to someone like myself it
> would just run "rough". Occasionally, it does, then I restart it
> and it's fine.
>
> The mechanic is " aircare certified" which means he has a gas
> analyzer and a relatively good record for repairs relating to aircare.
> He said the EGR and system is fine, although on the invoice it says
> he repaired vacume leak. Apparently he cleaned out the "ports" that
> can build up causing high NOx emissions. The only explanation I got
> was everything else works the way it's supposed to so my cat converter
> is shot.
>
> I don't think he's neccesarily wrong, the head gasket went on my van
> prior to me purchasing it, a new engine was put in...I've replaced two
> transmissions...a radiator...a couple batteries, an alternator, the
> berring on the front right 2 or 3 times now...
>
> I've owned this car for 3-4 years.
>
> I am frequently asked if my engine light is on, it's not. For the
> most part the vehicle seems to run relatively smooth. My dash lights
> are out, not sure if it's electrical or just the bulbs, and frankly I
> don't have the money for a technician to figure it out.
>
> I have bad luck with mechanics, they always try to scam me...it's
> really quite frusterating, I may not know about vehicles but I'm not
> stupid. I did a little checking around for parts and I can get a ford
> cat converter locally for $500. The mechanic wanted $628 for his,
> tried telling me that his distributor is giving him a discount on this
> price...which is BS because I called the same person he did and
> without a discount on the part is $500 and some change.
>
> If it will help...here are the numbers. I did two tests...
>
> Day 1:
>
> HC (g/km), max allowed 0.5000, vehicle reading 0.3193, avg pass 0.0873
>
> CO (g/km), max allowed 8.0800, vehicle reading 2.8459, avg pass 1.9758
>
> NOx (g/km) Max allowed 1.1200, vehicle reading 1.4698, avg pass 0.6229
>
> I was advised to put fuel injecrot cleaner into my tank and premium
> fuel, then drive to heat up the cat...drove for over an hour
>
> Day 2:
>
> HC (g/km), Max allowed 0.5000, vehicle reading 0.2357, avg pass
> 0.0873
>
> CO (g/km), Max allowed 8.0800, vehicle reading 2.3989, avg pass 1.9758
>
> NOx (g/km), Max allowed 1.1200, vehicle reading 1.6969, avg pass
> 0.6229
>
> "Jim Warman" wrote:
> > As odd as it may sound, customers are, all to often, the cause
> > of wasted
> > time (and therefore expense) because they tend to leave things
> > out. (I have
> > no idea if they are hoping for a cheaper invoice by minimizing
> > the concern,
> > but it sounds plausible). The tech can get into a diagnosis
> > that starts with
> > some extreme basics only to discover that there is "something"
> > the owner
> > hasn't mentioned. If we ask why they didn't say the car had
> > done <this> or
> > does <that> too, the reply is usually "I didn't think it
> > mattered". And this
> > happens nearly every day and even several times in one day...
> > It isn't the
> > tech deciding how much a repair is going to cost, it is the
> > car. The tech is
> > simply the messenger.
> >
> > FWIW, an engine misfire is going to have a greater effect on
> > HC and CO
> > production than it will on NOx production.
> >
> > Any condition that can drive combustion temps up, will
> > increase NOx
> > production. However, misfires can destroy the converter... The
> > resulting
> > meltdown may or may not restrict the exhaust flow.
> >
> > For the original poster... While I am not familiar with
> > "universal" type
> > catalytic converters, these "fits all" devices aren't
> > accurately sized for
> > any particuaar applications (neither physically nor in their
> > ability to deal
> > with exhaust flow and/or byproducts). I've often seen owners
> > treated to
> > added expense because the less costly alternative didn't quite
> > make the
> > grade (I think you'll find that these aftermarket suppliers
> > will only offer
> > a "replacement" warranty rather than a money back warranty).
> >
> > BEFORE the cat is replaced, it is crucial that the EGR
> > (exhaust gas
> > recirculation) system be thoroughly tested to ensure that it
> > is functioning
> > as required. Depending on the engine in your Windstar, it may
> > have a "ported
> > EGR" type system. These small passages can become plugged with
> > carbon,
> > robbing some cylinders of EGR flow and causing higher than
> > normal NOx
> > numbers. Extreme cases can result in a car that has a rough
> > idle concern or
> > even a stumble on acceleration but it can often go un-noticed,
> > as well. It
> > can take a fairly talented tech to accurately diagnose this
> > system.
> >
> > "aarcuda69062" opined in message
> >
> > >
> > > Gee, you'd think she would have mentioned the rough running
> > symptom.
>
> --
> Posted at author's request, using moderated http://www.AutoBoardz.com
> interface
> Thread archive: http://www.AutoBoardz.com/help-ftopict247389.html
 >> Stay informed about: Someone please help!! 

I'm sure that guy I was replying to understood, but thanks to guys like you
I never need to waste my valuable time proof reading. If my automatic spell
checker does not catch it I can count on you to explain it to the other slow
minded hat didn't get it.



"Jeff" wrote in message

> Mike hunt wrote:
>> If it were me I would take the vehicle to a combatant shop,
>
> What is a combatant shop? Is that where you buy guns and rent Army tanks?
>
> with the proper
>> diagnostic equipment, that can determines WHY the CAT NEEDS to be
>> cleaning things up. Apparently he CAT is trying to do more than that
>> for which it was designed. Obviously the fuel/air is operating outside
>> of the design specs, if the CAT can not clean up the exhaust. The
>> problem could be as simple as a bad plug or two.
>>
>> "cmanke" wrote in message
>>
>>> My 1996 Ford Windstar has failed aircare due to high NOx emissions. I
>>> have already tried the stupid tricks that BTW, DONT WORK. Anyway,
>>> the mechanic told me its the cat converter. He also told me it will
>>> be $900 for me to fix it.
>>>
>>> His explanation was that FORD has put two cat converters into the
>>> windstar and that the Universal cat converter cannot be installed. He
>>> said there was actually room for a third cat converter that he could
>>> install and that would be $200 plus labour...seems a little fishy to
>>> me to install a third to clean up what the two arent doing, but w/e.
>>>
>>> Apparently he has cleaned up the valves (something to do with the
>>> EGR), that the EGR itself was fine and my Ox sensors were also working
>>> fine. It has to be the cat converter he says.
>>>
>>> So now, I am a mother with 4 children 6 and under and NO VEHICLE
>>> because I cant pass aircare and I have a mechanic who wants to mark
>>> up the parts my van needs. Can someone please tell me if the
>>> universal cat converter can actually be installed (if it cant then
>>> why would they make it?!?!?!). Its a 3.8L, automatic transmission,
>>> a/c 1996 Ford Windstar.
>>
 >> Stay informed about: Someone please help!!