Your government at work, Fluorescent Light Bulbs

This message is not archived
 >> Stay informed about: Your government at work, Fluorescent Light Bulbs 

On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 14:59:41 -0400, Cathy F. wrote:

>
> "hachiroku" <Trueno DeleteThis @ae86.GTS> wrote in message
> news:pan.2008.04.20.18.49.13.657000@ae86.GTS...
>> On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 16:57:13 +0000, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>>
>>> "Bill Putney" <bptn DeleteThis @kinez.net> wrote in message
>>> news:671asfF2mq40bU2@mid.individual.net...
>>>> Jeff wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> They are made in China. Very few, if any, are made in the US.
>>>>
>>>> Man - can you imagine a worse environmental disaster in the making than
>>>> the Chinese using mercury in *ANY* manufacturing process!? Think of the
>>>> factory workers. Wonder what their groundwater is like?
>
> I don't know about their groundwater, but their surface water has
> problems... As does their air. Have seen photos from a couple of people
> who each went to China in the last year; air quality is dismal. Now, I
> assume it can't be that horrendous over the entire country, but what I saw
> in many of the pics was super-smog.
>
>>> Not to worry. They probably use mercury waste in their toothpaste.
>>
>> I won't buy toothpaste made in China. I won't even buy cat food from
>> China. I *LIKE* my cat!
>
> I feed my cats Science Diet. The price has gone noticeably up lately.
> Mentioned it to my vet... reason why: they are no longer using any
> ingredients from China, after the pet food - & other - contamination probs.
> The Chinese economy is obviosuly growing by incredible leaps & bounds -
> perhaps too fast for their (& everyone else's) own good - other embedded
> aspects (can't think how else to word it at moment) need to catch up.
> Obviously.
>
> Cathy


And the government is spending a good bunch of it's $1.3T surplus on
Miltary and space.
 >> Stay informed about: Your government at work, Fluorescent Light Bulbs 

On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 19:28:45 +0000, Jeff wrote:

>> I feed my cats Science Diet. The price has gone noticeably up lately.
>> Mentioned it to my vet... reason why: they are no longer using any
>> ingredients from China, after the pet food - & other - contamination probs.
>> The Chinese economy is obviosuly growing by incredible leaps & bounds -
>> perhaps too fast for their (& everyone else's) own good - other embedded
>> aspects (can't think how else to word it at moment) need to catch up.
>> Obviously.
>>
>> Cathy
>
> When we buy stuff from China and other 3rd world countries, in some
> senses, it is like we are exporting our pollution to China. Of course,
> with electronic waste, we literally export it.
>
> Jeff


Bullcrap! The technology exists to clean the environment in China. All it
takes is money, and the government has a $1.3T surplus. What are they
spending it on? Military spending and space projects! (SOURCE: The BBC)
Instead of spending it on clean technology. Why? THEY DON'T HAVE TO! They
are the major benefactor of the Kyoto Agreement. And they are lobbying
HARD to be excluded from the next round of agreements scheuled to take
place in 2012.

OK, I'll cede on the electronic waste. Countries like China and India and
Pakistan are taking all the computer circuit boards they can, and
extracting the gold from them. But they aren't doing it in any
environmentally friendly way.

I looked into doing this in the 90's. It is extremely difficult to do
properly; you can't just set up some tanks and drums in your garage. And
you're constantly monitored by the EPA. Back then, it cost $250 to extract
$300 worth of gold.

China and India don't have these constraints, and in a lot of cases they
do the work out in the open, in the 'living room', or wherever.

Talk about an ecological nightmare.
 >> Stay informed about: Your government at work, Fluorescent Light Bulbs 

"Jeff" <kidsdoc2000 RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:NPMOj.2223$kt1.1928@trndny06...
> Cathy F. wrote:
>> "hachiroku" <Trueno RemoveThis @ae86.GTS> wrote in message
>> news:pan.2008.04.20.18.49.13.657000@ae86.GTS...
>>> On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 16:57:13 +0000, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Bill Putney" <bptn RemoveThis @kinez.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:671asfF2mq40bU2@mid.individual.net...
>>>>> Jeff wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> They are made in China. Very few, if any, are made in the US.
>>>>> Man - can you imagine a worse environmental disaster in the making
>>>>> than
>>>>> the Chinese using mercury in *ANY* manufacturing process!? Think of
>>>>> the
>>>>> factory workers. Wonder what their groundwater is like?
>>
>> I don't know about their groundwater, but their surface water has
>> problems... As does their air. Have seen photos from a couple of people
>> who each went to China in the last year; air quality is dismal. Now, I
>> assume it can't be that horrendous over the entire country, but what I
>> saw in many of the pics was super-smog.
>
> They are stopping many factories and cutting down on travel during the
> Olympics.
>
> Air quality is a major problem in many cities, not just those in China.
> Mexico City, Buenos Aires, Cairo, Seol, Karachi, Jakarta and Sao Paul all
> have a lot of air pollution.
>
> Many rivers are very polluted. And many wetlands and forests are being
> destroyed, too.
>
> The problems are not limited to the air.
>
>>>> Not to worry. They probably use mercury waste in their toothpaste.
>>> I won't buy toothpaste made in China. I won't even buy cat food from
>>> China. I *LIKE* my cat!
>>
>> I feed my cats Science Diet. The price has gone noticeably up lately.
>> Mentioned it to my vet... reason why: they are no longer using any
>> ingredients from China, after the pet food - & other - contamination
>> probs. The Chinese economy is obviosuly growing by incredible leaps &
>> bounds - perhaps too fast for their (& everyone else's) own good - other
>> embedded aspects (can't think how else to word it at moment) need to
>> catch up. Obviously.
>>
>> Cathy
>
> When we buy stuff from China and other 3rd world countries, in some
> senses, it is like we are exporting our pollution to China. Of course,
> with electronic waste, we literally export it.
>
> Jeff

That's dangerously close to blaming America for the lack of environmental
controls in China.
 >> Stay informed about: Your government at work, Fluorescent Light Bulbs 

This message is not archived
 >> Stay informed about: Your government at work, Fluorescent Light Bulbs 

Blame the US? I'm surprise one of the lefty kook in this NG has not yet
blamed the President LOL

"Jeff Strickland" <crwlr.RemoveThis@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:r4NOj.2652$Ux4.822@trnddc07...
>
> "Jeff" <kidsdoc2000.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:NPMOj.2223$kt1.1928@trndny06...
>> Cathy F. wrote:
>>> "hachiroku" <Trueno.RemoveThis@ae86.GTS> wrote in message
>>> news:pan.2008.04.20.18.49.13.657000@ae86.GTS...
>>>> On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 16:57:13 +0000, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Bill Putney" <bptn.RemoveThis@kinez.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:671asfF2mq40bU2@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>> Jeff wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They are made in China. Very few, if any, are made in the US.
>>>>>> Man - can you imagine a worse environmental disaster in the making
>>>>>> than
>>>>>> the Chinese using mercury in *ANY* manufacturing process!? Think of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> factory workers. Wonder what their groundwater is like?
>>>
>>> I don't know about their groundwater, but their surface water has
>>> problems... As does their air. Have seen photos from a couple of
>>> people who each went to China in the last year; air quality is dismal.
>>> Now, I assume it can't be that horrendous over the entire country, but
>>> what I saw in many of the pics was super-smog.
>>
>> They are stopping many factories and cutting down on travel during the
>> Olympics.
>>
>> Air quality is a major problem in many cities, not just those in China.
>> Mexico City, Buenos Aires, Cairo, Seol, Karachi, Jakarta and Sao Paul all
>> have a lot of air pollution.
>>
>> Many rivers are very polluted. And many wetlands and forests are being
>> destroyed, too.
>>
>> The problems are not limited to the air.
>>
>>>>> Not to worry. They probably use mercury waste in their toothpaste.
>>>> I won't buy toothpaste made in China. I won't even buy cat food from
>>>> China. I *LIKE* my cat!
>>>
>>> I feed my cats Science Diet. The price has gone noticeably up lately.
>>> Mentioned it to my vet... reason why: they are no longer using any
>>> ingredients from China, after the pet food - & other - contamination
>>> probs. The Chinese economy is obviosuly growing by incredible leaps &
>>> bounds - perhaps too fast for their (& everyone else's) own good - other
>>> embedded aspects (can't think how else to word it at moment) need to
>>> catch up. Obviously.
>>>
>>> Cathy
>>
>> When we buy stuff from China and other 3rd world countries, in some
>> senses, it is like we are exporting our pollution to China. Of course,
>> with electronic waste, we literally export it.
>>
>> Jeff
>
> That's dangerously close to blaming America for the lack of environmental
> controls in China.
>
>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Your government at work, Fluorescent Light Bulbs 

"witfal" <nospam RemoveThis @all4.me> wrote in message
news:fugl22$vdc$1@news.albasani.net...
> On 2008-04-20 16:31:52 -0700, "Cathy F." <clfrclfr RemoveThis @adelphiadotdashdot.net>
> said:
>
>>>> Have no idea what you mean, because...
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/4wxjub
>>>>
>>>> it's a deal link.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure what's going on with tinyurl lately, but they're not
>>> keeping
>>> links alive very long. Not my fault.
>>>
>>> The article came from Australia. If I can find it again, I'll post the
>>> URL. The gist was that all foods using grain, such as pet or human, are
>>> going up due to the use of these crops for bio-fuel. The cost of a loaf
>>> of bread has little or nothing to do with Chinese grain.
>>
>> Oh - that; was a aprt of ther TIME link I posted before - last week?
>
> Translation? - That was a part of the Time link... How did I do? <g>
>
>>> I doubt that Science Diet uses any from China. At their cost, I'd be
>>> surprised.
>>
>> China was involved w/their (Hills SD) pet food production in some way;
>> one
>> or two of their foods (canned, IIRC vs. kibble) were involved with that
>> huge
>> pet food recall. Yes, SD has always been an expensive food, but the
>> price
>> went up farther, soon after the toxic pet food fiasco.
>
> Considering what they charge, I am surprised.

I'm not all that surprised. So much of what we consume - incl. expensive
high-end label stuff - is now made in China (or in another cheap-to-produce
location).

Cathy


>>> Want a better food, at a better price? - www.eaglepack.com
>>>
>>> My Boxer, and our two cats, love the stuff.
>>
>> I've already tried switching them in the past - to Nutro (when it was
>> considered one of the better foods). Nope, they both threw it up, even
>> when
>> I intro-ed it slowly, mixing it in w/their SD. And then later, when Royal
>> Canin became available over here. No problems w/ the RC at first, but
>> they
>> eventually decided they didn't really like it. So went back to their
>> tried
>> & true SD varieties. Basically,dogs seem snarfle just about anything
>> up - I
>> don't think it remains in their mouths long enough to process the taste!
>> Cats... can be finicky. I'm going to leave well enough alone.
>
> I understand your experience, as we've been through this with many breeds
> of both.
>
> But I'll never switch from Eagle Pack. The results have been worth the
> prior trials.
>
 >> Stay informed about: Your government at work, Fluorescent Light Bulbs 

hachiroku wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 19:28:45 +0000, Jeff wrote:
>
>>> I feed my cats Science Diet. The price has gone noticeably up lately.
>>> Mentioned it to my vet... reason why: they are no longer using any
>>> ingredients from China, after the pet food - & other - contamination probs.
>>> The Chinese economy is obviosuly growing by incredible leaps & bounds -
>>> perhaps too fast for their (& everyone else's) own good - other embedded
>>> aspects (can't think how else to word it at moment) need to catch up.
>>> Obviously.
>>>
>>> Cathy
>> When we buy stuff from China and other 3rd world countries, in some
>> senses, it is like we are exporting our pollution to China. Of course,
>> with electronic waste, we literally export it.
>>
>> Jeff
>
>
> Bullcrap! The technology exists to clean the environment in China. All it
> takes is money, and the government has a $1.3T surplus. What are they
> spending it on? Military spending and space projects! (SOURCE: The BBC)
> Instead of spending it on clean technology. Why? THEY DON'T HAVE TO! They
> are the major benefactor of the Kyoto Agreement. And they are lobbying
> HARD to be excluded from the next round of agreements scheuled to take
> place in 2012.

The technology exists. We are also able to require that everything sold
in the US be made only in factories with proper safety, environmental
and worker conditions.

China needs to build a good infrastructure, including roads, airports,
trains, power plants, houses, internet connections, too. If it is a choice

One argument that many 3rd world countries have is that they should be
allowed to pollute the same amount as the US does (per capita). And the
the US and Europe have increased the CO2 concentrations in our
atmosphere up the most.I have to say this is a fair argument.

> OK, I'll cede on the electronic waste. Countries like China and India and
> Pakistan are taking all the computer circuit boards they can, and
> extracting the gold from them. But they aren't doing it in any
> environmentally friendly way.

But, AFAIK, only the US exports its electronic waste.

> I looked into doing this in the 90's. It is extremely difficult to do
> properly; you can't just set up some tanks and drums in your garage. And
> you're constantly monitored by the EPA. Back then, it cost $250 to extract
> $300 worth of gold.
>
> China and India don't have these constraints, and in a lot of cases they
> do the work out in the open, in the 'living room', or wherever.

That's true. I think they just melt the plastic in an open container,
and the lead, gold and other metals sink to the bottom.

> Talk about an ecological nightmare.

Not to mention a nightmare for the people around the containers,
including the young family members.
 >> Stay informed about: Your government at work, Fluorescent Light Bulbs 

Jeff Strickland wrote:
>
> "Jeff" <kidsdoc2000.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:NPMOj.2223$kt1.1928@trndny06...
>> Cathy F. wrote:
>>> "hachiroku" <Trueno.TakeThisOut@ae86.GTS> wrote in message
>>> news:pan.2008.04.20.18.49.13.657000@ae86.GTS...
>>>> On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 16:57:13 +0000, JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Bill Putney" <bptn.TakeThisOut@kinez.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:671asfF2mq40bU2@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>> Jeff wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They are made in China. Very few, if any, are made in the US.
>>>>>> Man - can you imagine a worse environmental disaster in the making
>>>>>> than
>>>>>> the Chinese using mercury in *ANY* manufacturing process!? Think
>>>>>> of the
>>>>>> factory workers. Wonder what their groundwater is like?
>>>
>>> I don't know about their groundwater, but their surface water has
>>> problems... As does their air. Have seen photos from a couple of
>>> people who each went to China in the last year; air quality is
>>> dismal. Now, I assume it can't be that horrendous over the entire
>>> country, but what I saw in many of the pics was super-smog.
>>
>> They are stopping many factories and cutting down on travel during the
>> Olympics.
>>
>> Air quality is a major problem in many cities, not just those in
>> China. Mexico City, Buenos Aires, Cairo, Seol, Karachi, Jakarta and
>> Sao Paul all have a lot of air pollution.
>>
>> Many rivers are very polluted. And many wetlands and forests are being
>> destroyed, too.
>>
>> The problems are not limited to the air.
>>
>>>>> Not to worry. They probably use mercury waste in their toothpaste.
>>>> I won't buy toothpaste made in China. I won't even buy cat food from
>>>> China. I *LIKE* my cat!
>>>
>>> I feed my cats Science Diet. The price has gone noticeably up lately.
>>> Mentioned it to my vet... reason why: they are no longer using any
>>> ingredients from China, after the pet food - & other - contamination
>>> probs. The Chinese economy is obviosuly growing by incredible leaps &
>>> bounds - perhaps too fast for their (& everyone else's) own good -
>>> other embedded aspects (can't think how else to word it at moment)
>>> need to catch up. Obviously.
>>>
>>> Cathy
>>
>> When we buy stuff from China and other 3rd world countries, in some
>> senses, it is like we are exporting our pollution to China. Of course,
>> with electronic waste, we literally export it.
>>
>> Jeff
>
> That's dangerously close to blaming America for the lack of
> environmental controls in China.

How's that?

Nike polices its factories for child labor and other labor issues. Dell
and HP can do the same for its electronics products. Likewise, AFAIK,
the US is the only country that exports electronic waste.

Certainly, the US can do a better job of decreasing is environmental
footprint outside the US.

The US is not responsible for the Ganges River being polluted. But the
US can use its influence to improve environmental conditions around the
world.

Jeff
 >> Stay informed about: Your government at work, Fluorescent Light Bulbs 

Mike hunt wrote:
> It is my understand that all of them are imported, NO US manufacture is
> making the bulbs because of the EPA regulations on mercury make it too
> costly.
>
> As too "licking the bulbs," mercury is not a problem in its liquid state.
> Mercury has been used for a long time as a medicine. Inhaling Mercury
> VAPORS is the problem.

Inhaling mercury vapors is a much, much bigger problem than liquid
mercury. However, liquid mercury is also hazardous.

In CFL's, the mercury is in a vapor form. So, when the glass breaks, the
mercury is released into the air.

In addition, I am sure the inside surface of the glass is contaminated
with mercury. That's why the EPA suggests ventilating and not using a
vacuum for cleaning up the glass (the same would apply to regular
flourescent lamps). A vacuum cleaner seems to be the ideal way to get
any mercury vapors into the air.

> Naturally the environuts want even stronger regulations over mercury in the
> liquid state as well.

Liquid mercury can be absorbed throught the skin and cause allergies and
other skin problems; ingesting it can cause renal and gastrointestinal
damage. Liquid mercury is dangerous, though not as dangerous as mercury
vapors.

http://orf.od.nih.gov/Environmental+Protection/Mercury+Free/MercuryHea...Hazards

> If these nuts ever get their way they will drive up
> the cost of producing steel and electricity in the US, because the blast
> furnaces that produce Iron to make steel use coke and over 52% of the
> electricity generated in the US is generated using coal and there is mercury
> in coal.

Good. I don't like mercury vapors in the air I breath.

> Just as the price of everything we buy is going up, since the first of the
> year, because it is now costing railroads and truckers a dollar more per
> gallon to buy the new "cleaner" diesel fuel for the trains and the trucks
> (that get 6 MPG) that move EVERYTHING. Ironically even the gasoline,
> propane and heating oil we buy is affected by the price of diesel fuel for
> the truck that brings the stuff to the gas station and your home.

I am sure that the record high prices of crude oil has nothing to do
with it.

The price of the fuel to deliver heating oil and propane is not that much.

A much bigger reason why diesel is so expensive is that there is a
limited ability to refine diesel from crude oil in the US. When the
demand for diesel goes up, so does the cost of diesel. And, of course,
the cost of crude oil is at record highs, too.

The main thing the environmental regulations did was decrease the amount
of sulfur in diesel.

> We all want sensible environmental regulations but it is sad what we are
> doing to our county. When will our Senators and Congressmen stop bowing at
> the feet of these overzealous environuts?

You have yet to show that any of the senators or Congressmen are nuts or
that the environmental regulations they want are overzealous. What about
Congresswomen? Do they count?

Even President Bush wants to limit the CO2 output of the US because of
global heating.

Jeff

<...>
 >> Stay informed about: Your government at work, Fluorescent Light Bulbs 

Can't prove it by me, my oldest brother was a photographer he worked with
mercury most of his life, he died at age 79, thirty years ago. My father
worked with mercury in a steel mill for nearly forty years, he died in 1951
at age 78, long before the EPA

You seem to have a lot of free time, do a search and see if you can find any
scientific explanation for how a gas, the comprises only four hundreds of
one percent of ALL the gasses in the atmosphere, can effect the average
world temperature, one way or another. I have not been able to find one.

You might also search for what the was level of O2 andCO2 were during the
165 million years the dinosaurs roamed the earth, and what type of animals
flourished and what happened to growth of the vegetation after the relative
02 content when up and the relative C02 content went down.

Definitions:

MAN: Male and Female

BOVINE: Bull and Cow

"Jeff" <kidsdoc2000.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:o1POj.3832$WU.2671@trndny08...
> Mike hunt wrote:
>> It is my understand that all of them are imported, NO US manufacture is
>> making the bulbs because of the EPA regulations on mercury make it too
>> costly.
>>
>> As too "licking the bulbs," mercury is not a problem in its liquid state.
>> Mercury has been used for a long time as a medicine. Inhaling Mercury
>> VAPORS is the problem.
>
> Inhaling mercury vapors is a much, much bigger problem than liquid
> mercury. However, liquid mercury is also hazardous.
>
> In CFL's, the mercury is in a vapor form. So, when the glass breaks, the
> mercury is released into the air.
>
> In addition, I am sure the inside surface of the glass is contaminated
> with mercury. That's why the EPA suggests ventilating and not using a
> vacuum for cleaning up the glass (the same would apply to regular
> flourescent lamps). A vacuum cleaner seems to be the ideal way to get any
> mercury vapors into the air.
>
>> Naturally the environuts want even stronger regulations over mercury in
>> the liquid state as well.
>
> Liquid mercury can be absorbed throught the skin and cause allergies and
> other skin problems; ingesting it can cause renal and gastrointestinal
> damage. Liquid mercury is dangerous, though not as dangerous as mercury
> vapors.
>
> http://orf.od.nih.gov/Environmental+Protection/Mercury+Free/MercuryHea...Hazards
>
>> If these nuts ever get their way they will drive up the cost of producing
>> steel and electricity in the US, because the blast furnaces that produce
>> Iron to make steel use coke and over 52% of the electricity generated in
>> the US is generated using coal and there is mercury in coal.
>
> Good. I don't like mercury vapors in the air I breath.
>
>> Just as the price of everything we buy is going up, since the first of
>> the year, because it is now costing railroads and truckers a dollar more
>> per gallon to buy the new "cleaner" diesel fuel for the trains and the
>> trucks (that get 6 MPG) that move EVERYTHING. Ironically even the
>> gasoline, propane and heating oil we buy is affected by the price of
>> diesel fuel for the truck that brings the stuff to the gas station and
>> your home.
>
> I am sure that the record high prices of crude oil has nothing to do with
> it.
>
> The price of the fuel to deliver heating oil and propane is not that much.
>
> A much bigger reason why diesel is so expensive is that there is a limited
> ability to refine diesel from crude oil in the US. When the demand for
> diesel goes up, so does the cost of diesel. And, of course, the cost of
> crude oil is at record highs, too.
>
> The main thing the environmental regulations did was decrease the amount
> of sulfur in diesel.
>
>> We all want sensible environmental regulations but it is sad what we are
>> doing to our county. When will our Senators and Congressmen stop bowing
>> at the feet of these overzealous environuts?
>
> You have yet to show that any of the senators or Congressmen are nuts or
> that the environmental regulations they want are overzealous. What about
> Congresswomen? Do they count?
>
> Even President Bush wants to limit the CO2 output of the US because of
> global heating.
>
> Jeff
>
> <...>
 >> Stay informed about: Your government at work, Fluorescent Light Bulbs 

Mike hunt wrote:
> You are correct, of course we have been exporting our pollution everyday.
> We have been for thirty years or more and our jobs along with it, and it
> will only continue to get worse if we do not soon wise up.
>
> Back in day several of us were discussing government. One said the
> government FINNALY did something GOOD for the people and the country, they
> passed the Environmental Protection Act. Like the Disability Act, passed
> later, the act did NOT define what should be regulated. The law merely set
> up the EPA giving it the power to regulate pollution. As with the
> Disability Act the Congress abdicated it Constitutional responsibility to
> the political bureaucrats and its power to make law, to the courts. IE the
> right to regulate the gas that "feeds" everything we eat!!
>
> One of the guys in the group who went on to become a state Senator in
> Delaware prophetically asked, "Perhaps, but who will protect US FROM the
> EPA?" When we continue to give more power to the federal government, over
> the powers reserved to the states by the Constitution, the federal
> government will have absolute power and they will use it absolutely

The alternative is to have over 52 different environmental regulations
in the US (one for federal governmental operations, one for each of the
states and for Wash. D.C.), including hundreds of different
formulations. Or to have pollution and greenhouse gases getting worse
and worse (even Pres. Bush acknowledges global warming and our need to
limit CO2).

Personally, I think having one set of rules for things like drug purity
(FDA), pollution, defense and health insurance is a good idea rather 52
sets.

One thing you have to remember is that "they" is really "us." We need to
act as if the government is "of the people," including doing things like
hiring the best candidates (e.g., looking at the issues, finding out
what the candidates are really about, not just 30 second sound bites,
and making an informed vote) and writing to the elected representatives
(easy and cheap with the internet).

Jeff
 >> Stay informed about: Your government at work, Fluorescent Light Bulbs 

You once again miss the point of the post. The price of diesel fuel went up
a dollar MORE than the additional cost added by crude price that have raised
gas and fuel costs. Diesel fuel was priced below regular gas, now it is 50c
higher that premium gas

We the people, in a representative republic have the power to elect our
representatives to make and enforce laws, rules and regulations. Why did we
allow a pension to our Senators and Congressmen? Why would we allow that
which we grant to our elected official, be given to others? We should not
allow our government federal, sate or local, to give control over points of
law to the bureaucrats or the courts. It is not for them to give that
power to bureaucrats and the courts. I believe it was done so our
representatives do not have to answer to the people for what a government
agency does. I already have been to by my Congressmen that we didn't do
that, the EPA did that

Since you seem to want to support federal government control over things not
granted to it by the Constitution, I suggest you consult a dictionary for
the definition of Commerce then read the Commerce Clause in the
Constitution. I understand transportation between the states but how does
one define the air we breathe as being "transport" by anyone but God between
the states as defined in the Constitution? If you don't understand the
differace then I'm wasting my time on you, again

If you look back you will discover the constitution had to be amended to
stop the sale of alcohol and again to allow it to be sold, how the hell did
the EPA get enacted by an act of Congress rather than by amendment? The
people were not diligent because they believe it was a "good" idea, but so
did they think that of probation. That too caused more problem that it
cured until Congress did its duty and passed laws regulating alcohol rather
than allowing an agency to sell the rules. If the US is to regular CO2 it
should be debated in Congress by representatives of all the people under the
current cost benefit law of the land, not just by the EPA under the thumb of
the environu
"Jeff" <kidsdoc2000.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:IlPOj.201$NK1.56@trndny05...
> Mike hunt wrote:
>> You are correct, of course we have been exporting our pollution everyday.
>> We have been for thirty years or more and our jobs along with it, and it
>> will only continue to get worse if we do not soon wise up.
>>
>> Back in day several of us were discussing government. One said the
>> government FINNALY did something GOOD for the people and the country,
>> they passed the Environmental Protection Act. Like the Disability Act,
>> passed later, the act did NOT define what should be regulated. The law
>> merely set up the EPA giving it the power to regulate pollution. As
>> with the Disability Act the Congress abdicated it Constitutional
>> responsibility to the political bureaucrats and its power to make law, to
>> the courts. IE the right to regulate the gas that "feeds" everything we
>> eat!!
>>
>> One of the guys in the group who went on to become a state Senator in
>> Delaware prophetically asked, "Perhaps, but who will protect US FROM the
>> EPA?" When we continue to give more power to the federal government,
>> over the powers reserved to the states by the Constitution, the federal
>> government will have absolute power and they will use it absolutely
>
> The alternative is to have over 52 different environmental regulations in
> the US (one for federal governmental operations, one for each of the
> states and for Wash. D.C.), including hundreds of different formulations.
> Or to have pollution and greenhouse gases getting worse and worse (even
> Pres. Bush acknowledges global warming and our need to limit CO2).
>
> Personally, I think having one set of rules for things like drug purity
> (FDA), pollution, defense and health insurance is a good idea rather 52
> sets.
>
> One thing you have to remember is that "they" is really "us." We need to
> act as if the government is "of the people," including doing things like
> hiring the best candidates (e.g., looking at the issues, finding out what
> the candidates are really about, not just 30 second sound bites, and
> making an informed vote) and writing to the elected representatives (easy
> and cheap with the internet).
>
> Jeff
 >> Stay informed about: Your government at work, Fluorescent Light Bulbs