A floor jack's STEEL WHEELS

Gary L. Burnore wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:12:24 -0400, "Steve W." <csr684NOT.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Built_Well wrote:
>>> Steel wheels aren't as robust as one might suppose. The 3.5-ton
>>> Michelin floor jack's steel wheels laid down a thin layer of
>>> a white, chalk-like substance which I can only suppose was
>>> ground steel extracted from the wheels by the heavy weight of
>>> the car as the jack rolled forward on the concrete ground while
>>> lifting the car.
>>>
>>> The substance looked a little like chalk scrawled on
>>> a concrete street.
>>>
>>> I think next time I'll lay a thin piece of wood or particle
>>> board down on the floor for the jack to roll forward on as it
>>> lifts the car.
>>>
>>> Using a wooden runway probably isn't keeping with the rules of
>>> floor jack operation, but I want the steel wheels to last.
>>
>> What you see is stone and concrete dust. Nothing to worry about, unless
>> you start seeing big grooves or the concrete starts to crack, then you
>> might want to find a better floor to work on...
>>
>> DON'T use anything under the jack on concrete.
>>
>> Unless your doing work that requires you to remove the tires/wheels why
>> not buy a set of drive on ramps.
>
> Because drive ramps are extremely unsafe under ANY condition. A good
> floor jack and jackstands is the way to go. While I was in high
> schook, I attended the funeral of the father of a girl was dating at
> the time because of drive ramps. He thought that it was safe enough
> to drive up on them and not use jackstands. He was wrong.

Well if you feel that one failure you knew of means all ramps are bad
then how about the numerous instances of jack stands failing? I know of
at least 5 myself. 2 were mechanical failures of the locks, one was a
failure of the welds on the legs and the other two were caused by the
stands falling over when the vehicle shifted due to being in improper
positions.
I can also show you failures of lifts (single posts, twin posts and 4
posts) as well as MANY deaths from using service pits.

Good ramps rated to support your vehicle are safer than jack stands and
a jack. Why? Because you need to go under the vehicle while your putting
the stands in place. Can a ramp collapse? Yes, if it's a cheap POS. OR
if it is used improperly. If you drive/back onto the ramp on a solid
level area (concrete, pavement or even a good wood floor) then chock the
wheels on the ground and lock the brakes it is about as stable and
secure as it will ever be. Do this on a soft dirt area or on a angled
area and you will have problems.

The point is that ALL means to lift a vehicle for service have failed at
one time or another. Some were outright mechanical failures while others
were operator error (far more of these). So do you decide that they are
ALL bad to use. NOPE.


--
Steve W.
 >> Stay informed about: A floor jack's STEEL WHEELS 

On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 07:01:33 -0700 (PDT), Built_Well
<Built_Well_Toyota RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:

>Well, I guess if wood or particle board might hamper the forward
>movement of the jack, perhaps because of a warp in the board, how
>about just laying a piece of double-corrugated cardboard down?

Corrugated cardboard would have a lot higher rolling resistance.
You would have to crush the corrugations to move.

Now "railroad board" might work for a one-shot use, that's the thick
paper cardboard they use as the backing for note pads and legal pads.
You would have to order it in from a paper supplier.

Best and easiest to obtain material for a floor protector is 1/4"
tempered hardboard - basically pegboard without the holes. Available
at almost any good lumber yard or home center.

The 1/8" thickness will fall apart too fast.

--<< Bruce >>--
 >> Stay informed about: A floor jack's STEEL WHEELS 

Tomes wrote:
> "Gary L. Burnore" ...
>> "Steve W." ...
>>> DON'T use anything under the jack on concrete.
>>>
>>> Unless your doing work that requires you to remove the tires/wheels why
>>> not buy a set of drive on ramps.
>>
>> Because drive ramps are extremely unsafe under ANY condition. A good
>> floor jack and jackstands is the way to go. While I was in high
>> schook, I attended the funeral of the father of a girl was dating at
>> the time because of drive ramps. He thought that it was safe enough
>> to drive up on them and not use jackstands. He was wrong.
>
> What is the failure mechanism of using ramps when the brakes are locked
> and chocks are used?
> Tomes
> - who uses both methods

Some cheaper ramps can twist and collapse. If your not on a level
surface or if you overload them they can fail. These same problems can
also be found with jacks, jack stands, and lifts. ALL mechanical devices
can fail. Take a look at how many people have died using service pits.
Almost makes you want to pay the dealer to do the work....

--
Steve W.
Near Cooperstown, New York
 >> Stay informed about: A floor jack's STEEL WHEELS 

"Bruce L. Bergman" <blnospambergman.TakeThisOut@earthlink.invalid> wrote in message
news:nr0s549bn2tpb743mvrka2eb3svicep0pt@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 07:01:33 -0700 (PDT), Built_Well
> <Built_Well_Toyota.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Well, I guess if wood or particle board might hamper the forward
>>movement of the jack, perhaps because of a warp in the board, how
>>about just laying a piece of double-corrugated cardboard down?
>
> Corrugated cardboard would have a lot higher rolling resistance.
> You would have to crush the corrugations to move.
>
> Now "railroad board" might work for a one-shot use, that's the thick
> paper cardboard they use as the backing for note pads and legal pads.
> You would have to order it in from a paper supplier.
>
> Best and easiest to obtain material for a floor protector is 1/4"
> tempered hardboard - basically pegboard without the holes. Available
> at almost any good lumber yard or home center.
>
> The 1/8" thickness will fall apart too fast.
>


DO NOT put anything under the floor jack. The powder is cement, not metal
from the wheels.
 >> Stay informed about: A floor jack's STEEL WHEELS 

Jeff Strickland wrote:
>
> "Bruce L. Bergman" <blnospambergman.RemoveThis@earthlink.invalid> wrote in message
> news:nr0s549bn2tpb743mvrka2eb3svicep0pt@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 07:01:33 -0700 (PDT), Built_Well
>> <Built_Well_Toyota.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Well, I guess if wood or particle board might hamper the forward
>>> movement of the jack, perhaps because of a warp in the board, how
>>> about just laying a piece of double-corrugated cardboard down?
>>
>> Corrugated cardboard would have a lot higher rolling resistance.
>> You would have to crush the corrugations to move.
>>
>> Now "railroad board" might work for a one-shot use, that's the thick
>> paper cardboard they use as the backing for note pads and legal pads.
>> You would have to order it in from a paper supplier.
>>
>> Best and easiest to obtain material for a floor protector is 1/4"
>> tempered hardboard - basically pegboard without the holes. Available
>> at almost any good lumber yard or home center.
>>
>> The 1/8" thickness will fall apart too fast.
>>
>
>
> DO NOT put anything under the floor jack. The powder is cement, not
> metal from the wheels.
>
>
>

The only time I put anything under is to spread the load. The wheels
will drop into most pieces of wood, not roll across it. The wheels even
sink into most driveway pavements.


Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
'New' frame in the works for '08. Some Canadian Bush Trip and Build
Photos: http://mikeromainjeeptrips.shutterfly.com
 >> Stay informed about: A floor jack's STEEL WHEELS 

Steve W. wrote:
>
> Almost makes you want to pay the dealer to do the work....
========

Schucks, no, it doesn't make me want to let the dealer or
quick-change place do the work

About 5 years ago, in 2003 or so, when I brought my old '95
Tercel to a Jiffy Lube, the Jiffy Lube fella put in green
coolant, instead of pink Toyota coolant. Before he did it,
he told me the green stuff was the same as the pink Toyota
stuff. So I said okay.

Well, just a short matter of weeks or months later, the green
coolant in the overflow bottle/reservoir began turning black
and the volume diminished a whole lot. I guess oil started
leaking into the coolant system, since Jiffy Lube put in the
wrong type of coolant. And coolant was probably leaking into
the oil, but I didn't know what a UOA (Used Oil Analysis) was
back then, so I never got a UOA.

Anyway, at the time, I didn't realize what the cause was, because
I wasn't really interested in learning about cars back then.
But I did bring the Tercel back to Jippy Loob just to guage the
fellas facial expressions and reaction when I opened the hood.
I figured if the culprit was the green coolant he used (in place
of the pink), he might say something.

Well, he didn't say anthing and wore a Poker face. The fella
was a 30-something manager there, too, not some kid out of
high school.

The coolant system was never the same again. Driving around
town, the dash's temperature gauge forever-after always showed
a higher arrow reading than it did before Jiffy Lube got their
hands on my car. The coolant temp gauge's arrow wasn't in the
red, but the arrow would come to stop at a level higher than
it ever used to--big difference in arrow readings. The engine's
operating temperature was running hotter than it needed to, increasing
engine wear I'm sure.

If you have a Toyota and bring your car to Jiffy Lube, make sure
they have pink Toyota coolant there, or buy the coolant from
your dealer before taking it to Jiffy Lube. Better yet, have
your dealer do the coolant change, or carefully learn to do it
yourself.
 >> Stay informed about: A floor jack's STEEL WHEELS 

in2-dadark.RemoveThis@webtv.net wrote:
>
> Dude..WTF are you talking about.. The color of the coolant has
> nothing to do with it...
========

In this case, the color of the coolant has everything to do with
it. Unlike green coolant, Toyota's pink coolant is a non-silicate,
non-amine, non-nitrite, and non-borate coolant with long-life
hybrid organic acid technology (a combination of low phosphates
and organic acids).

From the manual: "Use of improper coolants may damage your
engine cooling system. Only use Toyota Super Long Life Coolant
or similar high-quality ethylene glycol based non-silicate,
non-amine, non-nitrite....coolant....[etc]."

In 2003, that '95 Tercel didn't even have 30,000 miles on it
when Jiffy Lube worked their magic on its cooling system.
 >> Stay informed about: A floor jack's STEEL WHEELS 

If you need a good, reliable floor jack, Sam's Club is selling the
Michelin for $65--best cheap one I've seen anywhere. ----------------

Uh..have you 'seen' the ones in harbor freight..? Half the cost of
yours...
 >> Stay informed about: A floor jack's STEEL WHEELS 

Well, I guess if wood or particle board might hamper the forward
movement of the jack, perhaps because of a warp in the board, how about
just laying a piece of double-corrugated cardboard down?
==============

So, you don't want to do it the right way ..you want to do it your
way..?
 >> Stay informed about: A floor jack's STEEL WHEELS 

And I'm wondering if you leave the jack in the trunk all the time? If so
what about the extra amount of gasoline used hauling a 90lb jack around
in the trunk. The auto manufactures spend millions getting 90lb off the
weight of a car.
------------

Whatever he 'thinks' he's saved in the jack, he's wasting in gas..Is
that why they call them 'dumbbells'..?
 >> Stay informed about: A floor jack's STEEL WHEELS 

Built_Well wrote:
> Steve W. wrote:
>> Almost makes you want to pay the dealer to do the work....
> ========
>
> Schucks, no, it doesn't make me want to let the dealer or
> quick-change place do the work
>
> About 5 years ago, in 2003 or so, when I brought my old '95
> Tercel to a Jiffy Lube, the Jiffy Lube fella put in green
> coolant, instead of pink Toyota coolant. Before he did it,
> he told me the green stuff was the same as the pink Toyota
> stuff. So I said okay.
>
> Well, just a short matter of weeks or months later, the green
> coolant in the overflow bottle/reservoir began turning black
> and the volume diminished a whole lot. I guess oil started
> leaking into the coolant system, since Jiffy Lube put in the
> wrong type of coolant. And coolant was probably leaking into
> the oil, but I didn't know what a UOA (Used Oil Analysis) was
> back then, so I never got a UOA.
>
> Anyway, at the time, I didn't realize what the cause was, because
> I wasn't really interested in learning about cars back then.
> But I did bring the Tercel back to Jippy Loob just to guage the
> fellas facial expressions and reaction when I opened the hood.
> I figured if the culprit was the green coolant he used (in place
> of the pink), he might say something.
>
> Well, he didn't say anthing and wore a Poker face. The fella
> was a 30-something manager there, too, not some kid out of
> high school.
>
> The coolant system was never the same again. Driving around
> town, the dash's temperature gauge forever-after always showed
> a higher arrow reading than it did before Jiffy Lube got their
> hands on my car. The coolant temp gauge's arrow wasn't in the
> red, but the arrow would come to stop at a level higher than
> it ever used to--big difference in arrow readings. The engine's
> operating temperature was running hotter than it needed to, increasing
> engine wear I'm sure.
>
> If you have a Toyota and bring your car to Jiffy Lube, make sure
> they have pink Toyota coolant there, or buy the coolant from
> your dealer before taking it to Jiffy Lube. Better yet, have
> your dealer do the coolant change, or carefully learn to do it
> yourself.

Sounds about like the routine we used to go through with the fleet
vehicles. Dealer was used for any serious work, BUT for oil, filters and
such we were supposed to use the Valvoline places. I think they
destroyed at least 20 transmissions by using "compatible" fluid instead
of the Chrysler specific stuff. Got to the point that I "forgot" to have
the trans serviced more than once. I HATED using the tiny rentals they
gave us for service calls. (We were running Grand Caravans and the
rentals were usually Neons...) Ever try to fit 1/2 ton of stuff in a Neon?

--
Steve W.
 >> Stay informed about: A floor jack's STEEL WHEELS 

About 5 years ago, in 2003 or so, when I brought my old '95 Tercel to a
Jiffy Lube, the Jiffy Lube fella put in green coolant, instead of pink
Toyota coolant. Before he did it, he told me the green stuff was the
same as the pink Toyota stuff. So I said okay.
Well, just a short matter of weeks or months later, the green coolant in
the overflow bottle/reservoir began turning black and the volume
diminished a whole lot. I guess oil started leaking into the coolant
system, since Jiffy Lube put in the wrong type of coolant. And coolant
was probably leaking into the oil, but I didn't know what a UOA (Used
Oil Analysis) was back then, so I never got a UOA.
Anyway, at the time, I didn't realize what the cause was, because I
wasn't really interested in learning about cars back then. But I did
bring the Tercel back to Jippy Loob just to guage the fellas facial
expressions and reaction when I opened the hood. I figured if the
culprit was the green coolant he used (in place of the pink), he might
say something.
Well, he didn't say anthing and wore a Poker face. The fella was a
30-something manager there, too, not some kid out of high school.
The coolant system was never the same again. Driving around town, the
dash's temperature gauge forever-after always showed a higher arrow
reading than it did before Jiffy Lube got their hands on my car. The
coolant temp gauge's arrow wasn't in the red, but the arrow would come
to stop at a level higher than it ever used to--big difference in arrow
readings. The engine's operating temperature was running hotter than it
needed to, increasing engine wear I'm sure.
If you have a Toyota and bring your car to Jiffy Lube, make sure they
have pink Toyota coolant there, or buy the coolant from your dealer
before taking it to Jiffy Lube. Better yet, have your dealer do the
coolant change, or carefully learn to do it yourself.
===================

Dude..WTF are you talking about.. The color of the coolant has nothing
to do with it and if you have a leaking head gasket you'll get coolant
in your combustion chamber (and oil) and white smoke out the ass.

Green or red or whatever coolant will not cause your head gasket to
leak..
 >> Stay informed about: A floor jack's STEEL WHEELS 

"Steve W."...
> Tomes wrote:
>> "Gary L. Burnore" ...
>>> "Steve W." ...
>>>> DON'T use anything under the jack on concrete.
>>>>
>>>> Unless your doing work that requires you to remove the tires/wheels why
>>>> not buy a set of drive on ramps.
>>>
>>> Because drive ramps are extremely unsafe under ANY condition. A good
>>> floor jack and jackstands is the way to go. While I was in high
>>> schook, I attended the funeral of the father of a girl was dating at
>>> the time because of drive ramps. He thought that it was safe enough
>>> to drive up on them and not use jackstands. He was wrong.
>>
>> What is the failure mechanism of using ramps when the brakes are locked
>> and chocks are used?
>> Tomes
>> - who uses both methods
>
> Some cheaper ramps can twist and collapse. If your not on a level surface
> or if you overload them they can fail. These same problems can also be
> found with jacks, jack stands, and lifts. ALL mechanical devices can fail.
> Take a look at how many people have died using service pits. Almost makes
> you want to pay the dealer to do the work....
>
Doesn't make me want to throw out my ramps....
 >> Stay informed about: A floor jack's STEEL WHEELS