Can front shocks be reconditioned?

"Charlie Money" <c_e_money DeleteThis @yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:54cf0161-21f7-44ee-bb62-321c61a9f3f5@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> I've got a 2005 1.9 multijet diesel sportwagon. The front end is
> bottoming out really badly, even on relatively minor dips in the road,
> with the front spoiler scraping worryingly on the road. Unfortunately
> it is out of warranty, as the mileage is very high (102,000 miles)
>
> Is it possible to get the front shocks reconditioned, or are they
> fully sealed units which can only be replaced? If they can be
> reconditioned, does anybody know somewhere around Bristol that they
> can recommend. Alternatively, are there any good aftermarket shocks
> that people know of?
>
It's more likely that the engine undertray is knackered. Unless you're
certain that there's a problem with the springs/dampers I would look there
first. The solution for me (2000 2.4JTD SP3) was simply to remove the
undertray.

D A Stocks
 >> Stay informed about: Can front shocks be reconditioned? 

On Tue, 6 May 2008 12:59:54 +0100, "David A Stocks"
<dastocks DeleteThis @channel4.com> wrote:

>
>"Charlie Money" <c_e_money DeleteThis @yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:54cf0161-21f7-44ee-bb62-321c61a9f3f5@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>> I've got a 2005 1.9 multijet diesel sportwagon. The front end is
>> bottoming out really badly, even on relatively minor dips in the road,
>> with the front spoiler scraping worryingly on the road. Unfortunately
>> it is out of warranty, as the mileage is very high (102,000 miles)
>>
>> Is it possible to get the front shocks reconditioned, or are they
>> fully sealed units which can only be replaced? If they can be
>> reconditioned, does anybody know somewhere around Bristol that they
>> can recommend. Alternatively, are there any good aftermarket shocks
>> that people know of?
>>
>It's more likely that the engine undertray is knackered. Unless you're
>certain that there's a problem with the springs/dampers I would look there
>first. The solution for me (2000 2.4JTD SP3) was simply to remove the
>undertray.

This is *not* a good solution. Next time he hits the road, there's
nothing between the road and the sump! My old garage pointed out that
they had experience of this and it wasn't pleasant. "You need a new
engine..er..that'll be..thousands.."

Makes no sense, for an 80UKP part you risk writing off your car.

--
Z
Scotland
Alfa Romeo 156 2.4JTD Veloce Leather
'Oil' be seeing you..
(Email without 'Alfa' in subject will be auto-deleted..sorry!)
 >> Stay informed about: Can front shocks be reconditioned? 

Charlie Money wrote:
> A quick update - I rang around and was surprised at how cheap
> replacement units are (how often can you say that?). I've only ever
> bought motorcycle shock absorbers previously, and they tend to be very
> expensive, so I started off thinking that each shock would be about
> £400.
>
> In fact the OEM shock works out at £63.33 + VAT and the spring £49.53
> + VAT. In the end I went for aftermarket KYB shocks, and have got both
> front shocks and springs for £185 incl VAT and delivery. £185 I could
> do without spending, but still pleasantly surprised. About 2 hours to
> fit apparently, and as I use my local garage rather than an offical
> dealer, I should get away with under £300 total.

And you probably didn't need the springs either. Are you *sure* your
undertray is OK (no, I'm not trying to ruin your day)

--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
116 Giulietta 3.0l Sprint 1.7 145 2.0 Cloverleaf 156 V6 2.5 S2
Triumph Sprint ST 1050: It's blue, see.
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
 >> Stay informed about: Can front shocks be reconditioned? 

In alt.autos.alfa-romeo,
Zathras <webnewsgroup.TakeThisOut@nospamthanks.hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 6 May 2008 12:59:54 +0100, "David A Stocks"
><dastocks.TakeThisOut@channel4.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Charlie Money" <c_e_money.TakeThisOut@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>>news:54cf0161-21f7-44ee-bb62-321c61a9f3f5@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>>> I've got a 2005 1.9 multijet diesel sportwagon. The front end is
>>> bottoming out really badly, even on relatively minor dips in the road,
>>> with the front spoiler scraping worryingly on the road. Unfortunately
>>> it is out of warranty, as the mileage is very high (102,000 miles)
>>>
>>> Is it possible to get the front shocks reconditioned, or are they
>>> fully sealed units which can only be replaced? If they can be
>>> reconditioned, does anybody know somewhere around Bristol that they
>>> can recommend. Alternatively, are there any good aftermarket shocks
>>> that people know of?
>>>
>>It's more likely that the engine undertray is knackered. Unless you're
>>certain that there's a problem with the springs/dampers I would look there
>>first. The solution for me (2000 2.4JTD SP3) was simply to remove the
>>undertray.
>
> This is *not* a good solution. Next time he hits the road, there's
> nothing between the road and the sump! My old garage pointed out that
> they had experience of this and it wasn't pleasant. "You need a new
> engine..er..that'll be..thousands.."

The undertrays get damaged when hit a few times. This causes them to
sag and have much less clearance than an undamaged one. You will scrape
the road much more often, even with good dampers. Removing the undertray
will get rid of that problem. The flimsy plastic tray does not provide
much protection for your engine. I have heard that removing it can cause
more wind noise and a tray will keep your engine compartiment cleaner.

Removing the tray will not solve the cause of it getting damaged and
will not help against hitting the front spoiler.

My 156 had such a sagging undertray that it hit the road on the
slightest bumps. Fixed the tray with a few strips of aluminium and fixed
the diving nose with a set of Bilstein B6 dampers. That really solved
it.


--
Stef (remove caps, dashes and .invalid from e-mail address to reply by mail)
 >> Stay informed about: Can front shocks be reconditioned? 

On Tue, 06 May 2008 22:06:01 +0200, Stef
<stef33d.TakeThisOut@yahooI-N-V-A-L-I-D.com.invalid> wrote:

>In alt.autos.alfa-romeo,
>Zathras <webnewsgroup.TakeThisOut@nospamthanks.hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 6 May 2008 12:59:54 +0100, "David A Stocks"
>><dastocks.TakeThisOut@channel4.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Charlie Money" <c_e_money.TakeThisOut@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>news:54cf0161-21f7-44ee-bb62-321c61a9f3f5@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>>>> I've got a 2005 1.9 multijet diesel sportwagon. The front end is
>>>> bottoming out really badly, even on relatively minor dips in the road,
>>>> with the front spoiler scraping worryingly on the road. Unfortunately
>>>> it is out of warranty, as the mileage is very high (102,000 miles)
>>>>
>>>> Is it possible to get the front shocks reconditioned, or are they
>>>> fully sealed units which can only be replaced? If they can be
>>>> reconditioned, does anybody know somewhere around Bristol that they
>>>> can recommend. Alternatively, are there any good aftermarket shocks
>>>> that people know of?
>>>>
>>>It's more likely that the engine undertray is knackered. Unless you're
>>>certain that there's a problem with the springs/dampers I would look there
>>>first. The solution for me (2000 2.4JTD SP3) was simply to remove the
>>>undertray.
>>
>> This is *not* a good solution. Next time he hits the road, there's
>> nothing between the road and the sump! My old garage pointed out that
>> they had experience of this and it wasn't pleasant. "You need a new
>> engine..er..that'll be..thousands.."
>
>The undertrays get damaged when hit a few times. This causes them to
>sag and have much less clearance than an undamaged one.

At that point the under tray has had it. Just replace it. There's a
vastly better polypropylene one, from Alfa, that lasts years longer
than my original fibrous one.

> You will scrape
>the road much more often, even with good dampers. Removing the undertray
>will get rid of that problem. The flimsy plastic tray does not provide
>much protection for your engine.

No..this is not correct. What it does is allow the car to sledge on
it. Except in a more severe case, this does protect the sump from
tearing, gouging and even denting (due to spreading the impact load).

Obviously, if you don't bottom your car out properly, you won't notice
it but particularly if you have a heavier engine (> 4 cylinders) I
wouldn't risk it - it's just not worth it.

--
Z
Scotland
Alfa Romeo 156 2.4JTD Veloce Leather
'Oil' be seeing you..
(Email without 'Alfa' in subject will be auto-deleted..sorry!)
 >> Stay informed about: Can front shocks be reconditioned? 

On Tue, 06 May 2008 17:38:29 GMT, Catman
<catman.DeleteThis@rustcuore-sportivo.co.uk> wrote:

>Charlie Money wrote:
>> A quick update - I rang around and was surprised at how cheap
>> replacement units are (how often can you say that?). I've only ever
>> bought motorcycle shock absorbers previously, and they tend to be very
>> expensive, so I started off thinking that each shock would be about
>> £400.
>>
>> In fact the OEM shock works out at £63.33 + VAT and the spring £49.53
>> + VAT. In the end I went for aftermarket KYB shocks, and have got both
>> front shocks and springs for £185 incl VAT and delivery. £185 I could
>> do without spending, but still pleasantly surprised. About 2 hours to
>> fit apparently, and as I use my local garage rather than an offical
>> dealer, I should get away with under £300 total.
>
>And you probably didn't need the springs either. Are you *sure* your
>undertray is OK (no, I'm not trying to ruin your day)

It's a good point. Even if the undertray looks good, it can be sagging
by a couple of cms toward the middle rear which seems to make an
incredible difference to grounding.

--
Z
Scotland
Alfa Romeo 156 2.4JTD Veloce Leather
'Oil' be seeing you..
(Email without 'Alfa' in subject will be auto-deleted..sorry!)
 >> Stay informed about: Can front shocks be reconditioned? 

Zathras wrote:
> On Tue, 06 May 2008 17:38:29 GMT, Catman
> <catman.TakeThisOut@rustcuore-sportivo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Charlie Money wrote:
>>> A quick update - I rang around and was surprised at how cheap
>>> replacement units are (how often can you say that?). I've only ever
>>> bought motorcycle shock absorbers previously, and they tend to be very
>>> expensive, so I started off thinking that each shock would be about
>>> £400.
>>>
>>> In fact the OEM shock works out at £63.33 + VAT and the spring £49.53
>>> + VAT. In the end I went for aftermarket KYB shocks, and have got both
>>> front shocks and springs for £185 incl VAT and delivery. £185 I could
>>> do without spending, but still pleasantly surprised. About 2 hours to
>>> fit apparently, and as I use my local garage rather than an offical
>>> dealer, I should get away with under £300 total.
>> And you probably didn't need the springs either. Are you *sure* your
>> undertray is OK (no, I'm not trying to ruin your day)
>
> It's a good point. Even if the undertray looks good, it can be sagging
> by a couple of cms toward the middle rear which seems to make an
> incredible difference to grounding.
>

I was on the verge of spending ~£600 when Jamie fixed mine.


C

--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
116 Giulietta 3.0l Sprint 1.7 145 2.0 Cloverleaf 156 V6 2.5 S2
Triumph Sprint ST 1050: It's blue, see.
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
 >> Stay informed about: Can front shocks be reconditioned? 

"Zathras" <webnewsgroup.DeleteThis@nospamthanks.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bn2124tp0ucle5oo1slglhccr1ppkvq94e@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 6 May 2008 12:59:54 +0100, "David A Stocks"
> <dastocks.DeleteThis@channel4.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>It's more likely that the engine undertray is knackered. Unless you're
>>certain that there's a problem with the springs/dampers I would look there
>>first. The solution for me (2000 2.4JTD SP3) was simply to remove the
>>undertray.
>
> This is *not* a good solution. Next time he hits the road, there's
> nothing between the road and the sump! My old garage pointed out that
> they had experience of this and it wasn't pleasant. "You need a new
> engine..er..that'll be..thousands.."
>
> Makes no sense, for an 80UKP part you risk writing off your car.
>
I agree that you need to take more care on roads that you don't know - if I
hit something I'm not sure about (it hasn't happened yet) I would stop
immediately and check for leaks.

D A Stocks
 >> Stay informed about: Can front shocks be reconditioned? 

On Wed, 07 May 2008 08:03:01 GMT, Catman
<catman.TakeThisOut@rustcuore-sportivo.co.uk> wrote:

>Zathras wrote:

>>
>> It's a good point. Even if the undertray looks good, it can be sagging
>> by a couple of cms toward the middle rear which seems to make an
>> incredible difference to grounding.
>>
>
>I was on the verge of spending ~£600 when Jamie fixed mine.

Same here - I thought my suspension was on the way out. Main Dealer
hadn't even bothered to put two of the retaining bolts in. Once all
was as the manufacturer intended, the car was *vastly* better.

--
Z
Scotland
Alfa Romeo 156 2.4JTD Veloce Leather
'Oil' be seeing you..
(Email without 'Alfa' in subject will be auto-deleted..sorry!)
 >> Stay informed about: Can front shocks be reconditioned? 

Zathras wrote:
> On Wed, 07 May 2008 08:03:01 GMT, Catman
> <catman RemoveThis @rustcuore-sportivo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Zathras wrote:
>
>>> It's a good point. Even if the undertray looks good, it can be sagging
>>> by a couple of cms toward the middle rear which seems to make an
>>> incredible difference to grounding.
>>>
>> I was on the verge of spending ~£600 when Jamie fixed mine.
>
> Same here - I thought my suspension was on the way out. Main Dealer
> hadn't even bothered to put two of the retaining bolts in. Once all
> was as the manufacturer intended, the car was *vastly* better.
>

Still nose heavy, but not worth the cost IMHO.

--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
116 Giulietta 3.0l Sprint 1.7 145 2.0 Cloverleaf 156 V6 2.5 S2
Triumph Sprint ST 1050: It's blue, see.
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
 >> Stay informed about: Can front shocks be reconditioned? 

On Wed, 07 May 2008 17:04:21 GMT, Catman
<catman.TakeThisOut@rustcuore-sportivo.co.uk> wrote:

>Zathras wrote:
>> On Wed, 07 May 2008 08:03:01 GMT, Catman
>> <catman.TakeThisOut@rustcuore-sportivo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Zathras wrote:
>>
>>>> It's a good point. Even if the undertray looks good, it can be sagging
>>>> by a couple of cms toward the middle rear which seems to make an
>>>> incredible difference to grounding.
>>>>
>>> I was on the verge of spending ~£600 when Jamie fixed mine.
>>
>> Same here - I thought my suspension was on the way out. Main Dealer
>> hadn't even bothered to put two of the retaining bolts in. Once all
>> was as the manufacturer intended, the car was *vastly* better.
>>
>
>Still nose heavy, but not worth the cost IMHO.

Quite. However, I'm also 7 years older than when I got it and don't
feel the need to charge over 'rough ground' as much as I did when I
was younger!!

The 'fix' is to replace it but the 159TI 2.4 has the following flaws:

Rubbish colours
No sunroof
Doesn't look as good
They've admitted (with their Prodrive collaboration) that they still
can't do UK-style suspension.
lardy? *70 hp* more than mine and it's only 1.3s quicker to 60!!
Very slow seller

Gah!

--
Z
Scotland
Alfa Romeo 156 2.4JTD Veloce Leather
'Oil' be seeing you..
(Email without 'Alfa' in subject will be auto-deleted..sorry!)
 >> Stay informed about: Can front shocks be reconditioned? 

Zathras wrote:
> On Wed, 07 May 2008 17:04:21 GMT, Catman
> <catman.DeleteThis@rustcuore-sportivo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Zathras wrote:
>>> On Wed, 07 May 2008 08:03:01 GMT, Catman
>>> <catman.DeleteThis@rustcuore-sportivo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Zathras wrote:
>>>>> It's a good point. Even if the undertray looks good, it can be sagging
>>>>> by a couple of cms toward the middle rear which seems to make an
>>>>> incredible difference to grounding.
>>>>>
>>>> I was on the verge of spending ~£600 when Jamie fixed mine.
>>> Same here - I thought my suspension was on the way out. Main Dealer
>>> hadn't even bothered to put two of the retaining bolts in. Once all
>>> was as the manufacturer intended, the car was *vastly* better.
>>>
>> Still nose heavy, but not worth the cost IMHO.
>
> Quite. However, I'm also 7 years older than when I got it and don't
> feel the need to charge over 'rough ground' as much as I did when I
> was younger!!
>
> The 'fix' is to replace it but the 159TI 2.4 has the following flaws:
>
> Rubbish colours
> No sunroof
> Doesn't look as good
> They've admitted (with their Prodrive collaboration) that they still
> can't do UK-style suspension.
> lardy? *70 hp* more than mine and it's only 1.3s quicker to 60!!
> Very slow seller

Expensive......


--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
116 Giulietta 3.0l Sprint 1.7 145 2.0 Cloverleaf 156 V6 2.5 S2
Triumph Sprint ST 1050: It's blue, see.
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
 >> Stay informed about: Can front shocks be reconditioned? 

"Zathras" <webnewsgroup.DeleteThis@nospamthanks.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bn2124tp0ucle5oo1slglhccr1ppkvq94e@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 6 May 2008 12:59:54 +0100, "David A Stocks"
> <dastocks.DeleteThis@channel4.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Charlie Money" <c_e_money.DeleteThis@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>>news:54cf0161-21f7-44ee-bb62-321c61a9f3f5@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>>> I've got a 2005 1.9 multijet diesel sportwagon. The front end is
>>> bottoming out really badly, even on relatively minor dips in the road,
>>> with the front spoiler scraping worryingly on the road. Unfortunately
>>> it is out of warranty, as the mileage is very high (102,000 miles)
>>>
>>> Is it possible to get the front shocks reconditioned, or are they
>>> fully sealed units which can only be replaced? If they can be
>>> reconditioned, does anybody know somewhere around Bristol that they
>>> can recommend. Alternatively, are there any good aftermarket shocks
>>> that people know of?
>>>
>>It's more likely that the engine undertray is knackered. Unless you're
>>certain that there's a problem with the springs/dampers I would look there
>>first. The solution for me (2000 2.4JTD SP3) was simply to remove the
>>undertray.
>
> This is *not* a good solution. Next time he hits the road, there's
> nothing between the road and the sump! My old garage pointed out that
> they had experience of this and it wasn't pleasant. "You need a new
> engine..er..that'll be..thousands.."
>
> Makes no sense, for an 80UKP part you risk writing off your car.

The tray does not prevent direct damage to the engine caused by contact with
the road - if you ground the car enough to hit the bottom of the engine on
the road, the repair bill will be large with or without a plastic tray! The
front exhaust pipes are lower than the tray (even a saggy one), so a
grounding which plonks the engine on the ground would have to go through all
4 exhaust downpipes first (ouch). This indicates that the tray's purpose is
only to stop dirt and objects (maybe water?) from flying into the engine bay
and causing damage.

Repair bill to replace the tray would probably be more than £80 too as the
parts of bodywork that the undertray bolts on to tend to break off along
with the tray.
 >> Stay informed about: Can front shocks be reconditioned?