Is my engine blown? (94 Legacy)

> The symptoms are definitely those of a head gasket. The definitive test is
> a
> chemical test for exhaust gasses in the coolant and you will want to
> verify that before shelling out money for a head gasket replacement, but
> it's a good bet.
>
> Mike
>

At 110,000 miles, is it worth doing a head gasket job? I'm thinking that at
this mileage I might as well yank the engine and overhaul it. My wife drove
it like this until it started cutting out, I guess it got pretty hot. Is
that likely to have damaged anything else? On the subject, how difficult is
a engine overhaul? I've done Datsun and Mazda (piston) engines before, but
have never been in a Subaru.
 >> Stay informed about: Is my engine blown? (94 Legacy) 

On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 18:46:29 -0700, "Zootal"
wrote:

>
>> The symptoms are definitely those of a head gasket. The definitive test is
>> a
>> chemical test for exhaust gasses in the coolant and you will want to
>> verify that before shelling out money for a head gasket replacement, but
>> it's a good bet.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>
>At 110,000 miles, is it worth doing a head gasket job? I'm thinking that at
>this mileage I might as well yank the engine and overhaul it. My wife drove
>it like this until it started cutting out, I guess it got pretty hot. Is
>that likely to have damaged anything else? On the subject, how difficult is
>a engine overhaul? I've done Datsun and Mazda (piston) engines before, but
>have never been in a Subaru.
>

With the blown head gasket and repeated overheating it would not be
worth attempting a repair, especially with the high miles on the
engine. If you want to keep the car your best bet would be to find a
good used engine from a junkyard with less mileage on it.
 >> Stay informed about: Is my engine blown? (94 Legacy) 

In article ,
"Michael Pardee" wrote:

> "Zootal" wrote in message
>
> > 94 Subaru Legacy 2.2L engine. Engine overheated - temp guage went right to
> > the top. So I replaced thermostat. No change. Radiator fans come on OK. I
> > noticed that when I start it, it seems to idle without overheating, but if
> > I drive it, the temp goes up and I can't go a half mile. If I turn it off,
> > wait 5 minutes, the temp guage has dropped to the middle. Start it up,
> > drive a half mile, guage zips up to the top. What is strange is the temp
> > seems to drop so fast. Also, the engine does not seem to be that hot, but
> > the system builds up pressure and vents. The local shop says it has a
> > blown head gasket. Any other opinions?
> >
> The symptoms are definitely those of a head gasket. The definitive test is a
> chemical test for exhaust gasses in the coolant and you will want to verify
> that before shelling out money for a head gasket replacement, but it's a
> good bet.
>
> Mike

.... and probably a warped head to boot

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 >> Stay informed about: Is my engine blown? (94 Legacy) 

Zootal wrote:

> that likely to have damaged anything else? On the subject, how difficult is
> a engine overhaul?

Hi,

Sounds like the engine might be toast if she drove it that far. If so,
Subie engines aren't quite as simple to rebuild as the straight fours in
so many small cars. And there's a limit to what can be replaced--not
much can be done as far as boring damaged cylinders, turning cranks is
extremely limited, etc.

You might want to get a hold of CCR (Colorado Component Rebuilders) at
www.ccrengines.com and talk to them about getting a rebuilt engine if
you can't find a good "junker" close by. They seem to have a very good
reputation from what I've heard.

Rick
 >> Stay informed about: Is my engine blown? (94 Legacy) 

"Rick Courtright" wrote in message

> Zootal wrote:
>
>> that likely to have damaged anything else? On the subject, how difficult
>> is
>> a engine overhaul?
>
> Hi,
>
> Sounds like the engine might be toast if she drove it that far. If so,
> Subie engines aren't quite as simple to rebuild as the straight fours in
> so many small cars. And there's a limit to what can be replaced--not
> much can be done as far as boring damaged cylinders, turning cranks is
> extremely limited, etc.
>
> You might want to get a hold of CCR (Colorado Component Rebuilders) at
> www.ccrengines.com and talk to them about getting a rebuilt engine if
> you can't find a good "junker" close by. They seem to have a very good
> reputation from what I've heard.
>
> Rick

I'm not sure how much damage had been done. It still runs, it just gets hot
real fast. I'm going to take it apart and evaluate it, see if it's
salvagable. I'm fairly determined to do this myself. it can't be that bad -
ever been into a rotary engine (piece of cake if you know what you are
doing - disastor otherwise)? Any specific things that can get me into
trouble?
 >> Stay informed about: Is my engine blown? (94 Legacy) 

On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 22:25:51 -0700, "Zootal"
wrote:

>
>"Rick Courtright" wrote in message
>
>> Zootal wrote:
>>
>>> that likely to have damaged anything else? On the subject, how difficult
>>> is
>>> a engine overhaul?
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Sounds like the engine might be toast if she drove it that far. If so,
>> Subie engines aren't quite as simple to rebuild as the straight fours in
>> so many small cars. And there's a limit to what can be replaced--not
>> much can be done as far as boring damaged cylinders, turning cranks is
>> extremely limited, etc.
>>
>> You might want to get a hold of CCR (Colorado Component Rebuilders) at
>> www.ccrengines.com and talk to them about getting a rebuilt engine if
>> you can't find a good "junker" close by. They seem to have a very good
>> reputation from what I've heard.
>>
>> Rick
>
>I'm not sure how much damage had been done. It still runs, it just gets hot
>real fast. I'm going to take it apart and evaluate it, see if it's
>salvagable. I'm fairly determined to do this myself. it can't be that bad -
>ever been into a rotary engine (piece of cake if you know what you are
>doing - disastor otherwise)? Any specific things that can get me into
>trouble?
>

To fully evaluate the engine and any possible damage that was done by
the repeated overheating, everything has to be measured- head and
block flatness, cylinder dimensions, bore alignment etc. Also the
heads and block need to be checked for cracks. You most likely do not
have the equipment to do this so it will have to go to a machine shop.
When all is said and done, between the required testing and parts
replacement this is not going to be a worthwhile project and depending
on what is found the engine may end up needing to be scrapped anyway.
If you try to do a simple overhaul without checking/replacing
everything correctly, you may find yourself with an engine that is
still NG but just cost you time and money.
 >> Stay informed about: Is my engine blown? (94 Legacy) 

wrote in message

> On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 22:25:51 -0700, "Zootal"
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Rick Courtright" wrote in message
>>
>>> Zootal wrote:
>>>
>>>> that likely to have damaged anything else? On the subject, how
>>>> difficult
>>>> is
>>>> a engine overhaul?
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Sounds like the engine might be toast if she drove it that far. If so,
>>> Subie engines aren't quite as simple to rebuild as the straight fours in
>>> so many small cars. And there's a limit to what can be replaced--not
>>> much can be done as far as boring damaged cylinders, turning cranks is
>>> extremely limited, etc.
>>>
>>> You might want to get a hold of CCR (Colorado Component Rebuilders) at
>>> www.ccrengines.com and talk to them about getting a rebuilt engine if
>>> you can't find a good "junker" close by. They seem to have a very good
>>> reputation from what I've heard.
>>>
>>> Rick
>>
>>I'm not sure how much damage had been done. It still runs, it just gets
>>hot
>>real fast. I'm going to take it apart and evaluate it, see if it's
>>salvagable. I'm fairly determined to do this myself. it can't be that
>>bad -
>>ever been into a rotary engine (piece of cake if you know what you are
>>doing - disastor otherwise)? Any specific things that can get me into
>>trouble?
>>
>
> To fully evaluate the engine and any possible damage that was done by
> the repeated overheating, everything has to be measured- head and
> block flatness, cylinder dimensions, bore alignment etc. Also the
> heads and block need to be checked for cracks. You most likely do not
> have the equipment to do this so it will have to go to a machine shop.
> When all is said and done, between the required testing and parts
> replacement this is not going to be a worthwhile project and depending
> on what is found the engine may end up needing to be scrapped anyway.
> If you try to do a simple overhaul without checking/replacing
> everything correctly, you may find yourself with an engine that is
> still NG but just cost you time and money.

So I take the heads and block to shop, and while they are boring block and
doing valve job I have them check heads/block for warpage and cracks. I
always do this anyhow, as a warped/cracked component is a risk in any engine
repair. What specific to this engine can go wrong?
 >> Stay informed about: Is my engine blown? (94 Legacy) 

Zootal wrote:

> So I take the heads and block to shop, and while they are boring block and
> doing valve job I have them check heads/block for warpage and cracks. I
> always do this anyhow, as a warped/cracked component is a risk in any engine
> repair. What specific to this engine can go wrong?

Hi,

First specific is if there's block damage (cylinder worn past limit,
scored, etc.), the block's probably a throwaway. I don't believe it can
be bored nor that you'll find oversized pistons and rings. (Check the
links they gave you in another thread to confirm if I got this right.)
As for machining the block otherwise (leveling warped surfaces, etc.),
again I believe there's a rather strict limit to what can be done.
Unlike old air-cooled VW engines where you could cut, shim and install
oversized parts, ending up with a better case than when it left
Wolfsburg, I don't think you can do much to build a new Subie case
(block) from a damaged one. Again, I could be wrong.

OTOH, Subie lower ends ARE quite robust, so if yours ISN'T totally
cooked, it's quite possible no serious damage has been done there, but
as another poster mentioned, do you want to do all the work and end up
w/ a NG engine? For myself, I'm getting old and grumpy enough I don't
find any fun in redoing stuff like I once did!

Now, if you DO want to proceed w/ tearing things down all the way to
Bolt A and Nut B, read up on splitting the case and some of the
specifics involved in disassembly and reassembly involved there. It's
not impossible, but a few tricks will make your life far nicer--the guys
at USMB should be able to get you checked out in that department.

Best of luck!

Rick
 >> Stay informed about: Is my engine blown? (94 Legacy) 

Update: I just stripped the front of the engine, and found the water pump
had seized. After spending a left nut on water pump, timing belt, all 4
follers (might as will while I'm in it), belts, hoses, and misc parts, I'm
gong to finish putting it back together tomorrow. Finding that siezed water
pump increases my warm fuzzies to a very high level!
 >> Stay informed about: Is my engine blown? (94 Legacy) 

I just now saw and read this thread. Your symptoms are EXACTLY what
happened to my mom's `95 Legacy L Wagon two years ago. She was taking my
sister to college and before she got on the interstate, the car overheated
on her while coming down off the mountain. About a 45 min drive from here.
She called me and I arrived in my explorer of which she used to take my
sister back to college with. Well I went to Walmart got a new radiator cap,
added fluids (which were low). AFter about a 2 hour trek of going to
Walmart I started the car and noticed it did not overheat. My aunt/uncle
stopped by as well and they followed me to the top of the mountain before
they took another road to go home. Up until this point things were quite
normal. It wasn't until my decent of the mountain, being 10 miles or so
from home that the heat guage shotup instantly. I sat and waited along this
back country barely paved road pulled off in someones driveway. Mind you
this was a rural area that with no houses for another 2-3 miles. I started
the car again, drove it half a mile before it overheated again and shut it
off. I did this a time or two before coming to a hunters camp where I
finally had to park it and get a ride home back with them.

Two days later when my mom returned, we took my explorer to go and ge the
car. It was 9pm, about 30* outside. Surprisingly the car started up and I
drove it home without it overheating once. However she called the wrecker
and had it towed to the dealership. The dealership found the exact same
thing you did, a seized waterpump. After replacing it, everything worked
instantly. No blown heads or anything severe. It's worked since.

Brad



"Matthew Reed" <nospam at zootal dot com nospam> wrote in message

> Update: I just stripped the front of the engine, and found the water pump
> had seized. After spending a left nut on water pump, timing belt, all 4
> follers (might as will while I'm in it), belts, hoses, and misc parts, I'm
> gong to finish putting it back together tomorrow. Finding that siezed
> water pump increases my warm fuzzies to a very high level!
>
 >> Stay informed about: Is my engine blown? (94 Legacy) 

I had another person at a local shop tell me the same thing - as the
bearings go bad, they can work intermittently. I even heard a growling
noise, and suspected a bearing somewhere.

"Bradley Walker" wrote in message

>I just now saw and read this thread. Your symptoms are EXACTLY what
>happened to my mom's `95 Legacy L Wagon two years ago. She was taking my
>sister to college and before she got on the interstate, the car overheated
>on her while coming down off the mountain. About a 45 min drive from here.
>She called me and I arrived in my explorer of which she used to take my
>sister back to college with. Well I went to Walmart got a new radiator
>cap, added fluids (which were low). AFter about a 2 hour trek of going to
>Walmart I started the car and noticed it did not overheat. My aunt/uncle
>stopped by as well and they followed me to the top of the mountain before
>they took another road to go home. Up until this point things were quite
>normal. It wasn't until my decent of the mountain, being 10 miles or so
>from home that the heat guage shotup instantly. I sat and waited along
>this back country barely paved road pulled off in someones driveway. Mind
>you this was a rural area that with no houses for another 2-3 miles. I
>started the car again, drove it half a mile before it overheated again and
>shut it off. I did this a time or two before coming to a hunters camp
>where I finally had to park it and get a ride home back with them.
>
> Two days later when my mom returned, we took my explorer to go and ge the
> car. It was 9pm, about 30* outside. Surprisingly the car started up and
> I drove it home without it overheating once. However she called the
> wrecker and had it towed to the dealership. The dealership found the
> exact same thing you did, a seized waterpump. After replacing it,
> everything worked instantly. No blown heads or anything severe. It's
> worked since.
>
> Brad
>
>
>
> "Matthew Reed" <nospam at zootal dot com nospam> wrote in message
>
>> Update: I just stripped the front of the engine, and found the water pump
>> had seized. After spending a left nut on water pump, timing belt, all 4
>> follers (might as will while I'm in it), belts, hoses, and misc parts,
>> I'm gong to finish putting it back together tomorrow. Finding that siezed
>> water pump increases my warm fuzzies to a very high level!
>>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Is my engine blown? (94 Legacy) 

If I remember correctly in my mothers case, the something got jammed and
caused a couple fan blades to break from the waterpump and thus jammed in
the pump causing it to seize up. Or when the car was stopped the first
time, to temporarily unsieze until things siezed up again.


"Zootal" wrote in message

>I had another person at a local shop tell me the same thing - as the
>bearings go bad, they can work intermittently. I even heard a growling
>noise, and suspected a bearing somewhere.
>
> "Bradley Walker" wrote in message
>
>>I just now saw and read this thread. Your symptoms are EXACTLY what
>>happened to my mom's `95 Legacy L Wagon two years ago. She was taking my
>>sister to college and before she got on the interstate, the car overheated
>>on her while coming down off the mountain. About a 45 min drive from
>>here. She called me and I arrived in my explorer of which she used to take
>>my sister back to college with. Well I went to Walmart got a new radiator
>>cap, added fluids (which were low). AFter about a 2 hour trek of going to
>>Walmart I started the car and noticed it did not overheat. My aunt/uncle
>>stopped by as well and they followed me to the top of the mountain before
>>they took another road to go home. Up until this point things were quite
>>normal. It wasn't until my decent of the mountain, being 10 miles or so
>>from home that the heat guage shotup instantly. I sat and waited along
>>this back country barely paved road pulled off in someones driveway. Mind
>>you this was a rural area that with no houses for another 2-3 miles. I
>>started the car again, drove it half a mile before it overheated again and
>>shut it off. I did this a time or two before coming to a hunters camp
>>where I finally had to park it and get a ride home back with them.
>>
>> Two days later when my mom returned, we took my explorer to go and ge the
>> car. It was 9pm, about 30* outside. Surprisingly the car started up and
>> I drove it home without it overheating once. However she called the
>> wrecker and had it towed to the dealership. The dealership found the
>> exact same thing you did, a seized waterpump. After replacing it,
>> everything worked instantly. No blown heads or anything severe. It's
>> worked since.
>>
>> Brad
>>
>>
>>
>> "Matthew Reed" <nospam at zootal dot com nospam> wrote in message
>>
>>> Update: I just stripped the front of the engine, and found the water
>>> pump had seized. After spending a left nut on water pump, timing belt,
>>> all 4 follers (might as will while I'm in it), belts, hoses, and misc
>>> parts, I'm gong to finish putting it back together tomorrow. Finding
>>> that siezed water pump increases my warm fuzzies to a very high level!
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Is my engine blown? (94 Legacy) 

Those are all the classic signs of a blown head gasket.



"Zootal" wrote in message

> 94 Subaru Legacy 2.2L engine. Engine overheated - temp guage went right to
> the top. So I replaced thermostat. No change. Radiator fans come on OK. I
> noticed that when I start it, it seems to idle without overheating, but if
> I drive it, the temp goes up and I can't go a half mile. If I turn it off,
> wait 5 minutes, the temp guage has dropped to the middle. Start it up,
> drive a half mile, guage zips up to the top. What is strange is the temp
> seems to drop so fast. Also, the engine does not seem to be that hot, but
> the system builds up pressure and vents. The local shop says it has a
> blown head gasket. Any other opinions?
>
 >> Stay informed about: Is my engine blown? (94 Legacy)