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Next: "G" Sensor
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External
Since: Sep 23, 2006
Posts: 1
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 1:55 pm
Post subject: e30 charging problem...
Archived from groups: alt>autos>bmw (more info?)
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I have a charging problem with an '89 e30 ix.... battery light stays
off, voltage while the car is running is a bit less than battery
voltage...
Here's what I've done so far:
Replaced regulator (actually 2 of them)..
bench tested alternator (load & no load)...the guy was an auto electric
guy.. rebuilds alternators.
checked all fuses.. were fine
checked voltage with the car off at the alternator on main + lead and
alternator body.. was close to battery voltage
at that point I thought maybe the alternator wasn't getting voltage on
the blue wire to establish field...so I took the inst. cluster off
and...
tested resistance between blue wire and cluster pin (forgot which
one... came from an apparently misprinted bentley book that has the
rows for the pin numbering wrong)...
tested voltage on various inst. cluster pins according to bentley, all
were fine..
made sure the leads on the ignition switch were good
then thought maybe the inst. cluster wasn't doing whatever it needs to
do to power that blue wire to the alternator, so I replaced it (the
cluster) -- (it was acting flaky anyway... fuel guage was
jumping..etc)..
that didn't help.. (fuel guage looks better though!)
So I'm starting to feel some defeat... does anyone have any other
ideas? Are there any relays that might be broken? Any help would be
appreciated... I'm considering calling Duracell to see if they cell
high capacity, disposable, 12v batterys! 
Thanks in advance for any help!
-Aaron |
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External
Since: Jun 22, 2004
Posts: 981
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 4:55 pm
Post subject: Re: e30 charging problem... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <2006092313554016807-altdotautosdotbmw@digitalmafiaorg>,
Aaron Botsis <altdotautosdotbmw RemoveThis @digitalmafia.org> wrote:
> I have a charging problem with an '89 e30 ix.... battery light stays
> off, voltage while the car is running is a bit less than battery
> voltage...
Check the warning light bulb and wiring. On many cars this supplies the
field exciting volts. If it's not on with the engine stopped it's the
first thing to check.
--
*Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere may be happy.
Dave Plowman dave RemoveThis @davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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External
Since: Sep 23, 2006
Posts: 2
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 4:55 pm
Post subject: Re: e30 charging problem... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 2006-09-23 14:25:13 -0500, "Dave Plowman (News)"
<dave.DeleteThis@davenoise.co.uk> said:
> In article <2006092313554016807-altdotautosdotbmw@digitalmafiaorg>,
> Aaron Botsis <altdotautosdotbmw.DeleteThis@digitalmafia.org> wrote:
>> I have a charging problem with an '89 e30 ix.... battery light stays
>> off, voltage while the car is running is a bit less than battery
>> voltage...
>
> Check the warning light bulb and wiring. On many cars this supplies the
> field exciting volts. If it's not on with the engine stopped it's the
> first thing to check.
I thought about that... but according to Bentley they put a resister in
parallel with the light in case the bulb goes... could still be the
wiring though I suppose... but that's all in the instrument cluster
replaced...
I'll double check and make sure the bulb is lit before the car is
started and report back...
-Aaron >> Stay informed about: e30 charging problem... |
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External
Since: Jun 15, 2004
Posts: 87
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 5:55 pm
Post subject: Re: e30 charging problem... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Aaron Botsis" <altdotautosdotbmw.TakeThisOut@digitalmafia.org> wrote in message
news:2006092313554016807-altdotautosdotbmw@digitalmafiaorg...
>I have a charging problem with an '89 e30 ix.... battery light stays off,
>voltage while the car is running is a bit less than battery voltage...
>
> Here's what I've done so far:
>
> Replaced regulator (actually 2 of them)..
> bench tested alternator (load & no load)...the guy was an auto electric
> guy.. rebuilds alternators.
> checked all fuses.. were fine
> checked voltage with the car off at the alternator on main + lead and
> alternator body.. was close to battery voltage
>
> at that point I thought maybe the alternator wasn't getting voltage on the
> blue wire to establish field...so I took the inst. cluster off and...
>
> tested resistance between blue wire and cluster pin (forgot which one...
> came from an apparently misprinted bentley book that has the rows for the
> pin numbering wrong)...
> tested voltage on various inst. cluster pins according to bentley, all
> were fine..
> made sure the leads on the ignition switch were good
>
> then thought maybe the inst. cluster wasn't doing whatever it needs to do
> to power that blue wire to the alternator, so I replaced it (the
> cluster) -- (it was acting flaky anyway... fuel guage was jumping..etc)..
>
> that didn't help.. (fuel guage looks better though!)
>
> So I'm starting to feel some defeat... does anyone have any other ideas?
> Are there any relays that might be broken? Any help would be
> appreciated... I'm considering calling Duracell to see if they cell high
> capacity, disposable, 12v batterys!
>
> Thanks in advance for any help!
>
> -Aaron
>
The voltage at the battery with the engine off should be around 12 volts.
The voltage at the battery with the engine on should be around 14 volts.
If this condition does not exist, your battery will not be charged.
You said that the voltage at the battery with the engine on was less than 12
volts.
This is a clear indication that there is a problem in the charging
circuitry.
A likely cause is a bad regulator, but you said that that you replaced it.
It is most unlikely that two regulators would fail.
Another likely cause is a problem with the alternator, but you said that
someone checked it.
The light goes off when the alternator voltage is higher than battery
voltage. This indicates that the alternator is working fine.
By the way , that light and the resistor you mentioned is the only place in
the instrument cluster which affects your problem.
There is a direct connection between the battery and alternator because the
current is much too high to travel any path but the shortest.
I suppose you did notice that the battery cable is much bigger than those in
the instrument cluster.
Hence, I would check all of the connections and all of the battery to
alternator cables.
Jim >> Stay informed about: e30 charging problem... |
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External
Since: Jun 22, 2004
Posts: 981
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 10:55 pm
Post subject: Re: e30 charging problem... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <2006092314271775249-nokturnal@maccom>,
Aaron Botsis <nokturnal.TakeThisOut@mac.com> wrote:
> > Check the warning light bulb and wiring. On many cars this supplies the
> > field exciting volts. If it's not on with the engine stopped it's the
> > first thing to check.
> I thought about that... but according to Bentley they put a resister in
> parallel with the light in case the bulb goes... could still be the
> wiring though I suppose... but that's all in the instrument cluster
> replaced...
If you've replaced the cluster and the bulb still doesn't work, this
points to a wiring fault. Two blown bulbs are a little too much of a
coincidence. If you have the wiring diagram, you could provide a temporary
ground or +12 volts (whichever it is) to the warning light terminal on the
alternator. If it starts charging you've got it.
> I'll double check and make sure the bulb is lit before the car is
> started and report back...
--
*Everybody lies, but it doesn't matter since nobody listens*
Dave Plowman dave.TakeThisOut@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound. >> Stay informed about: e30 charging problem... |
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External
Since: Aug 25, 2006
Posts: 31
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 10:55 pm
Post subject: Re: e30 charging problem... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Aaron Botsis" <altdotautosdotbmw.RemoveThis@digitalmafia.org> wrote in message
news:2006092313554016807-altdotautosdotbmw@digitalmafiaorg...
>I have a charging problem with an '89 e30 ix.... battery light stays off,
>voltage while the car is running is a bit less than battery voltage...
>
> Here's what I've done so far:
>
> Replaced regulator (actually 2 of them)..
> bench tested alternator (load & no load)...the guy was an auto electric
> guy.. rebuilds alternators.
> checked all fuses.. were fine
> checked voltage with the car off at the alternator on main + lead and
> alternator body.. was close to battery voltage
>
Well, I don't know if it is any help but I had a similar problem on my '91 a
while back (Bench tesed fine in all conditions, warning light did not
indicate fault, but yet the battery clearly died when the car was driven),
but a regulator fixed the problem... and I suspect that the brushes were the
only problem with it. All that to say that just 'cuz the alternator checks
out doesn't mean it's good... really makes me wonder why bench test them,
but that's a different question.
On a side note, I now have a regulator with worn out brushes and have been
told that the brushes cannot be replaced in it. Is this true? if not,
where can I get brushes? Thanks
Matt >> Stay informed about: e30 charging problem... |
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External
Since: Jun 22, 2004
Posts: 981
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 6:55 am
Post subject: Re: e30 charging problem... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <fklRg.55437$8j3.6754@twister.nyroc.rr.com>,
M Warren <muuarren DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
> All that to say that just 'cuz the alternator checks out doesn't mean
> it's good... really makes me wonder why bench test them, but that's a
> different question.
There's bench testing and bench testing. One consists of putting the
alternator on a bench and staring at it. The other involves an alternator
test bench which runs it up with an electric motor and checks it properly
- including for maximum output, which is tricky to do without the proper
facilities.
--
*I'm not your type. I'm not inflatable.
Dave Plowman dave DeleteThis @davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound. >> Stay informed about: e30 charging problem... |
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External
Since: Sep 24, 2006
Posts: 2
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 12:49 pm
Post subject: Re: e30 charging problem... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 2006-09-23 20:38:19 -0500, "M Warren" <muuarren RemoveThis @hotmail.com> said:
>
>
> On a side note, I now have a regulator with worn out brushes and have
> been told that the brushes cannot be replaced in it. Is this true? if
> not, where can I get brushes? Thanks
>
> Matt
I heard this too... I think you can replace just the brushes, but it's
a bit of a pain. I think they're riveted on, so you'd have to drill out
the rivets and replace them with screws.
-Aaron >> Stay informed about: e30 charging problem... |
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External
Since: Sep 24, 2006
Posts: 2
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 12:58 pm
Post subject: Re: e30 charging problem... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 2006-09-23 20:05:32 -0500, "Dave Plowman (News)"
<dave.TakeThisOut@davenoise.co.uk> said:
> In article <2006092314271775249-nokturnal@maccom>,
> Aaron Botsis <nokturnal.TakeThisOut@mac.com> wrote:
>>> Check the warning light bulb and wiring. On many cars this supplies the
>>> field exciting volts. If it's not on with the engine stopped it's the
>>> first thing to check.
>
>
>> I thought about that... but according to Bentley they put a resister in
>> parallel with the light in case the bulb goes... could still be the
>> wiring though I suppose... but that's all in the instrument cluster
>> replaced...
>
> If you've replaced the cluster and the bulb still doesn't work, this
> points to a wiring fault. Two blown bulbs are a little too much of a
> coincidence. If you have the wiring diagram, you could provide a temporary
> ground or +12 volts (whichever it is) to the warning light terminal on the
> alternator. If it starts charging you've got it.
>> I'll double check and make sure the bulb is lit before the car is
>> started and report back...
Well, sure enough the battery light wasn't lighting up. I reread some
of the bentley troubleshooting steps and found something that I somehow
completely missed before. They suggest removing the d+ (blue) wire from
the alternator, turning on the ignition, and connecting it to ground.
If the battery warning light lights up, all is well in the inst.
cluster department, and it's something internal to the alternator.
The light lit up...
The real bitch of it is that I actually read Matt's prior thread quite
a while ago (before bringing the alternator to the shop)... so I was
wary of this whole bench-testing thing... When the guy tested it, I was
completely satisified that there wasn't anything he could have done
better. He loaded it up to like 30A, he ran it unloaded, everything
checked out.
*sigh*
Thanks for all your help - I'll let you know what happends after I
bring the alt. to the shop...
-Aaron >> Stay informed about: e30 charging problem... |
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External
Since: Aug 25, 2006
Posts: 31
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:55 pm
Post subject: Re: e30 charging problem... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave DeleteThis @davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4e6b4ea12adave@davenoise.co.uk...
> In article <fklRg.55437$8j3.6754@twister.nyroc.rr.com>,
> M Warren <muuarren DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
>> All that to say that just 'cuz the alternator checks out doesn't mean
>> it's good... really makes me wonder why bench test them, but that's a
>> different question.
>
> There's bench testing and bench testing. One consists of putting the
> alternator on a bench and staring at it. The other involves an alternator
> test bench which runs it up with an electric motor and checks it properly
> - including for maximum output, which is tricky to do without the proper
> facilities.
>
True, and mine was tested on such a bench. It was computerized and ran
tests specific to the alternator specified. I have seen the times when a
guy puts a belt and a volt meter on it, spins it up and says "yep, she's all
good;" doesn't give me much confidence.
Matt >> Stay informed about: e30 charging problem... |
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External
Since: Jun 22, 2004
Posts: 981
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:55 pm
Post subject: Re: e30 charging problem... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <S1zRg.47891$uH6.4392@twister.nyroc.rr.com>,
M Warren <muuarren.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > There's bench testing and bench testing. One consists of putting the
> > alternator on a bench and staring at it. The other involves an
> > alternator test bench which runs it up with an electric motor and
> > checks it properly - including for maximum output, which is tricky to
> > do without the proper facilities.
> >
> True, and mine was tested on such a bench. It was computerized and ran
> tests specific to the alternator specified. I have seen the times when
> a guy puts a belt and a volt meter on it, spins it up and says "yep,
> she's all good;" doesn't give me much confidence.
You might as well do this on the car if that's the limit of the test.
--
*I used up all my sick days so I called in dead
Dave Plowman dave.TakeThisOut@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound. >> Stay informed about: e30 charging problem... |
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External
Since: Jan 17, 2007
Posts: 481
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:10 am
Post subject: Re: e30 charging problem... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <2006092412492016807-altautosbmw@digitalmafiaorg>,
Aaron Botsis <altautosbmw RemoveThis @digitalmafia.org> wrote:
>On 2006-09-23 20:38:19 -0500, "M Warren" <muuarren RemoveThis @hotmail.com> said:
>>
>>
>> On a side note, I now have a regulator with worn out brushes and have
>> been told that the brushes cannot be replaced in it. Is this true? if
>> not, where can I get brushes? Thanks
>>
>> Matt
>
>I heard this too... I think you can replace just the brushes, but it's
>a bit of a pain. I think they're riveted on, so you'd have to drill out
>the rivets and replace them with screws.
Of course you can replace the brushes, you get them at any starter/alternator
place. They're like, a dollar. I went in with all sorts of part number and
was told BOSCH units only use one part, here they are that's a dollar please.
You might need to do a bit of soldering but it's all very straightforward.
I did this on one of my cars a couple of years ago and made some notes, maybe
this is helpful:
http://articles.mbz.org/electric/reg-repair/
--
Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net >> Stay informed about: e30 charging problem... |
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External
Since: Oct 09, 2006
Posts: 1
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 9:16 am
Post subject: Re: e30 charging problem... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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T'was the stator. The alternator guy says that Bosch stators have a
thing with corrosion -- rust builts up in the fins on the stator and
spread the fins out, and can short it with the wiring.
So he replaced the stator and the bearings for $100.
Thanks again for your help!
On 2006-09-24 12:58:53 -0500, Aaron Botsis <altautosbmw.DeleteThis@digitalmafia.org> said:
> On 2006-09-23 20:05:32 -0500, "Dave Plowman (News)"
> <dave.DeleteThis@davenoise.co.uk> said:
>
>> In article <2006092314271775249-nokturnal@maccom>,
>> Aaron Botsis <nokturnal.DeleteThis@mac.com> wrote:
>>>> Check the warning light bulb and wiring. On many cars this supplies the
>>>> field exciting volts. If it's not on with the engine stopped it's the
>>>> first thing to check.
>>
>>
>>> I thought about that... but according to Bentley they put a resister in
>>> parallel with the light in case the bulb goes... could still be the
>>> wiring though I suppose... but that's all in the instrument cluster
>>> replaced...
>>
>> If you've replaced the cluster and the bulb still doesn't work, this
>> points to a wiring fault. Two blown bulbs are a little too much of a
>> coincidence. If you have the wiring diagram, you could provide a temporary
>> ground or +12 volts (whichever it is) to the warning light terminal on the
>> alternator. If it starts charging you've got it.
>>> I'll double check and make sure the bulb is lit before the car is
>>> started and report back...
>
>
> Well, sure enough the battery light wasn't lighting up. I reread some
> of the bentley troubleshooting steps and found something that I somehow
> completely missed before. They suggest removing the d+ (blue) wire from
> the alternator, turning on the ignition, and connecting it to ground.
> If the battery warning light lights up, all is well in the inst.
> cluster department, and it's something internal to the alternator.
>
> The light lit up...
>
> The real bitch of it is that I actually read Matt's prior thread quite
> a while ago (before bringing the alternator to the shop)... so I was
> wary of this whole bench-testing thing... When the guy tested it, I was
> completely satisified that there wasn't anything he could have done
> better. He loaded it up to like 30A, he ran it unloaded, everything
> checked out.
>
> *sigh*
>
> Thanks for all your help - I'll let you know what happends after I
> bring the alt. to the shop...
>
> -Aaron >> Stay informed about: e30 charging problem... |
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