In what distance would a Bugatti Veyron beat that Vauxhall..

On Jul 10, 1:07 pm, "Rob" wrote:
> well considering it has over double the power of the veryon gearing
> dependant i dont think the bugatti would touch it


Gearing the same as it uses at the dragstrip.

There'a more to consider than just hp numbers. I think it's a safe
assumption that the Vauxhall is an aerodynamic joke compared to the
Veyron.
 >> Stay informed about: In what distance would a Bugatti Veyron beat that Vauxhall.. 

On Jul 10, 3:18 pm, "Burgerman" wrote:

> As I said there wouldnt be much in it.


Could you translate this turn of phrase into American?


 >> Stay informed about: In what distance would a Bugatti Veyron beat that Vauxhall.. 

On Jul 10, 3:18 pm, "Burgerman" wrote:

>
> In the same way the veyron would lose on a motorway chase because the top
> speed is pretty impossible to achieve - no time/space - but the vauxhall can
> accelerate massively harder.


Do you mean against that Vauxhall? How do you figure the Vauxhall wins
in a highway chase? If I understand correctly, you said your bike got
slaughtered in a 1.5 mile dragrace with a top speed pretty close to
what the Vauxhall is capable of in dragstrip trim. It would seem the
Vauxhall's acceleration advantage is only up to a certain point.

That Veyron wouldn't have to hit anywhere near its top speed to beat
that Vauxhall. At 180 the Vauxhall is sucking wind, the Veyron is
accelerating hard. While the Vauxhall can go around 190, how long can
it maintain it? And how stable is it going to be at that speed
compared to the Veyron?
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"Doc" wrote in message

>I got an e-mail showing off this guy's Vauxhall
>
> http://www.wxpnews.com/N1RT6J/070710-Quickest-Car
>
>
> Nice little car. It's humorously compared to the Bugatti Veyron as
> being "quicker". While the Vauxhall obviously would win in a 1/4 mile
> drag, how much distance do you think the Veyron would need to pass it
> assuming both left their foot in it? 1 mile? 2 miles?
>
> I'm not very familiar with European cars, but I like the lines of that
> old Vauxhall.
>


Given correct gearing I doubt there would be much in it.
 >> Stay informed about: In what distance would a Bugatti Veyron beat that Vauxhall.. 

well considering it has over double the power of the veryon gearing
dependant i dont think the bugatti would touch it
 >> Stay informed about: In what distance would a Bugatti Veyron beat that Vauxhall.. 

On Jul 10, 7:40 pm, "Burgerman" wrote:

> Well we dont know. The veyron according to conventional wisdom and an
> aerodynamics calc wouldnt actually be able to catch the vauxhall anyway...


An aerodynamics calc says a car purpose-built to go the better part of
300 mph has an aero *disadvantage* compared to a mass-produced
passenger car from the '70's? He's got some mods on the Vaux body, but
still.


> > That Veyron wouldn't have to hit anywhere near its top speed to beat
> > that Vauxhall. At 180 the Vauxhall is sucking wind, the Veyron is
> > accelerating hard. While the Vauxhall can go around 190, how long can
> > it maintain it?
>
> Err who knows what it can "maintain" - it has the power to go faster than
> the veyron anyway. Just.


It has the power and gearing to go a 1/4 mi about 2.5 secs faster - on
a dragstrip on drag tires - ending up at just about its top speed if
it's set up correctly as a drag car.

"What it can maintain" is certainly a crucial issue under the highway
race scenario proposed. If you put taller gears in it to theoretically
give it more top speed, as well as tires made for maintained speeds
near or over 200mph it's going to lose a lot of that short-distance
advantage. And pushing that brick any faster would be inviting
disaster.

Also, unless we see a verified dyno test of that Vauxhall's engine,
we've got only his word for it that it makes 2000hp. People are known
to embellish such claims. And where is that engine making its power?
Aren't the powerband characteristics of the engine important?


> > And how stable is it going to be at that speed
>
> > compared to the Veyron?
>
> Not very. Who said anything about stability?


It's pretty obviously implied when talking about a highway race.
There's probably as much $$ in just the high-tech suspension and
hardware to keep that Veyron stuck to the road as that guy spent total
on the Vauxhall dragster.

You say there's not enough distance to get to full speed - if it gets
over 220 in 1.5 miles, doesn't seem he needs much distance to go
plenty fast. Aren't there straightaways longer than that in Europe?
That Vaux normally only needs to maintain that top speed for a couple
of seconds before shutting down. A whole different game than going
down the highway.

If that Veyron ever gets even with the Vauxhall at speeds like 120,
130, and I don't see any reason why he wouldn't, how do you figure
he's not going to leave the Vaux in the dust when he's getting into
his powerband and has at least another 120 mph in his back-pocket and
isn't in danger of going airborn approaching and beyond 200?

With streetable tires, drag-race suspension, laughable aerodynamics,
even with taller gears, I just don't see that Vauxhall looking like
such a hero in a "highway chase" scenario vs the Veyron.

Btw, how does your bike compare to a Yamaha R1? There's video on
YouTube of an R1 getting repeatedly, seriously smoked by a Veyron.
 >> Stay informed about: In what distance would a Bugatti Veyron beat that Vauxhall.. 

Rob wrote:
> well considering it has over double the power of the veryon gearing
> dependant i dont think the bugatti would touch it
>
>
Aerodynamics would be a factor at some point

--
Abo
 >> Stay informed about: In what distance would a Bugatti Veyron beat that Vauxhall.. 

Burgerman wrote:
> "Doc" wrote in message
>
>> I got an e-mail showing off this guy's Vauxhall
>>
>> http://www.wxpnews.com/N1RT6J/070710-Quickest-Car
>>
>>
>> Nice little car. It's humorously compared to the Bugatti Veyron as
>> being "quicker". While the Vauxhall obviously would win in a 1/4 mile
>> drag, how much distance do you think the Veyron would need to pass it
>> assuming both left their foot in it? 1 mile? 2 miles?
>>
>> I'm not very familiar with European cars, but I like the lines of that
>> old Vauxhall.
>>
>
>
> Given correct gearing I doubt there would be much in it.

As shown in the video, it runs an 7.8s quarter mile at 187mph. I assume
it'll be geared such that it's not far off V_max at the end of the run,
but Burgerman is the chap to ask about that. IIRC the Veyron runs about
10.5 @ 140ish mph, so something of a walkover for the vaux..

Assuming ideal gearing for highest possible speed and an infinitely long
test straight, then noddy aerodynamics calcs suggest that the vaux will
be quicker IF its cdA is not more than about 30% greater than that of
the veyron, but I'm not sure if that's very likely.
 >> Stay informed about: In what distance would a Bugatti Veyron beat that Vauxhall.. 

"Albert T Cone" wrote in message

> Burgerman wrote:
>> "Doc" wrote in message
>>
>>> I got an e-mail showing off this guy's Vauxhall
>>>
>>> http://www.wxpnews.com/N1RT6J/070710-Quickest-Car
>>>
>>>
>>> Nice little car. It's humorously compared to the Bugatti Veyron as
>>> being "quicker". While the Vauxhall obviously would win in a 1/4 mile
>>> drag, how much distance do you think the Veyron would need to pass it
>>> assuming both left their foot in it? 1 mile? 2 miles?
>>>
>>> I'm not very familiar with European cars, but I like the lines of that
>>> old Vauxhall.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Given correct gearing I doubt there would be much in it.
>
> As shown in the video, it runs an 7.8s quarter mile at 187mph. I assume
> it'll be geared such that it's not far off V_max at the end of the run,
> but Burgerman is the chap to ask about that. IIRC the Veyron runs about
> 10.5 @ 140ish mph, so something of a walkover for the vaux..
>
> Assuming ideal gearing for highest possible speed and an infinitely long
> test straight, then noddy aerodynamics calcs suggest that the vaux will be
> quicker IF its cdA is not more than about 30% greater than that of the
> veyron, but I'm not sure if that's very likely.


As I said there wouldnt be much in it. But the Vauxhall would be there in
half a mile roughly and the veyron? Dunno... Probably 2 miles judging by the
Maclaren F1 we were playing with at bruntingthorp.

It was getting 220 through our timing lights after 1.5miles of runway.
Interestingly my own new un run in stock 1100 wp suzuki (derestricted) left
it for dead coming onto the main runway. From 35mph up to say 140 the bike
pulled away so fast the car was a small dot. From then on the bike takes a
further mile to hit say 165 due to the bad aerodynamics. At about just past
half the runway but the dot gets bigger and bigger! At the timing lights
just before the braking boards the car is in front of me by several lengths
and triggering the lights at over 220. At this point I was doing maybe 173
to 175 according to the radar so it comes past like you are parked. So the
cars acceleration from 120 on is much better than the bike and improves as
speed increases. Power to weight is less on the mclaren but its slippery
shape makes up for it on a two mile drag. But not by much. On the road with
bends, traffic etc it would lose quite easily.

In the same way the veyron would lose on a motorway chase because the top
speed is pretty impossible to achieve - no time/space - but the vauxhall can
accelerate massively harder. Throw in some corners though and a roads and it
would be the veyron...
 >> Stay informed about: In what distance would a Bugatti Veyron beat that Vauxhall.. 

"Burgerman" wrote in message

> "Albert T Cone" wrote in message
>
>> Burgerman wrote:
>>> "Doc" wrote in message
>>>
>>>> I got an e-mail showing off this guy's Vauxhall
>>>>
>>>> http://www.wxpnews.com/N1RT6J/070710-Quickest-Car
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nice little car. It's humorously compared to the Bugatti Veyron as
>>>> being "quicker". While the Vauxhall obviously would win in a 1/4 mile
>>>> drag, how much distance do you think the Veyron would need to pass it
>>>> assuming both left their foot in it? 1 mile? 2 miles?
>>>>
>>>> I'm not very familiar with European cars, but I like the lines of that
>>>> old Vauxhall.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Given correct gearing I doubt there would be much in it.
>>
>> As shown in the video, it runs an 7.8s quarter mile at 187mph. I assume
>> it'll be geared such that it's not far off V_max at the end of the run,
>> but Burgerman is the chap to ask about that. IIRC the Veyron runs about
>> 10.5 @ 140ish mph, so something of a walkover for the vaux..
>>
>> Assuming ideal gearing for highest possible speed and an infinitely long
>> test straight, then noddy aerodynamics calcs suggest that the vaux will be
>> quicker IF its cdA is not more than about 30% greater than that of the
>> veyron, but I'm not sure if that's very likely.
>
>
> As I said there wouldnt be much in it. But the Vauxhall would be there in
> half a mile roughly and the veyron? Dunno... Probably 2 miles judging by
> the Maclaren F1 we were playing with at bruntingthorp.

One of those lovely factlets about the Veyron is that if you start it from
stationary and the Mac from 100mph they Bugatti still hits 200 first.
 >> Stay informed about: In what distance would a Bugatti Veyron beat that Vauxhall.. 

"Doc" wrote in message

> On Jul 10, 3:18 pm, "Burgerman" wrote:
>
>>
>> In the same way the veyron would lose on a motorway chase because the top
>> speed is pretty impossible to achieve - no time/space - but the vauxhall
>> can
>> accelerate massively harder.
>
>
> Do you mean against that Vauxhall?

Eh?

I mean the veyron against the V


How do you figure the Vauxhall wins
> in a highway chase?

because of traffic, bends, road works etc. In the real world there isnt many
places you could get fast!


If I understand correctly, you said your bike got
> slaughtered in a 1.5 mile dragrace with a top speed pretty close to
> what the Vauxhall is capable of in dragstrip trim. It would seem the
> Vauxhall's acceleration advantage is only up to a certain point.


Well we dont know. The veyron according to conventional wisdom and an
aerodynamics calc wouldnt actually be able to catch the vauxhall anyway...


>
> That Veyron wouldn't have to hit anywhere near its top speed to beat
> that Vauxhall. At 180 the Vauxhall is sucking wind, the Veyron is
> accelerating hard. While the Vauxhall can go around 190, how long can
> it maintain it?

Err who knows what it can "maintain" - it has the power to go faster than
the veyron anyway. Just.


And how stable is it going to be at that speed
> compared to the Veyron?

Not very. Who said anything about stability?

>
 >> Stay informed about: In what distance would a Bugatti Veyron beat that Vauxhall.. 

Doc wrote:
>> Well we dont know. The veyron according to conventional wisdom and
>> an aerodynamics calc wouldnt actually be able to catch the vauxhall
>> anyway...
>
> An aerodynamics calc says a car purpose-built to go the better part
> of 300 mph has an aero *disadvantage* compared to a mass-produced
> passenger car from the '70's? He's got some mods on the Vaux body,
> but still.

Yeah, but the cdA only needs to be under 30% more than that of the
Veyron - it's not easy to get a 30% reduction. According to Gordon
Murray in
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=7&article_id=3075 ,
the cdA of the Veyron isn't _that_ low anyway. As Burgerman says, it is
probably close a close-run thing.

>>> While the Vauxhall can go around 190, how long can it maintain
>>> it?
>> Err who knows what it can "maintain" - it has the power to go
>> faster than the veyron anyway. Just.
>
> It has the power and gearing to go a 1/4 mi about 2.5 secs faster -
> on a dragstrip on drag tires - ending up at just about its top speed
> if it's set up correctly as a drag car.
That 2.7 seconds is a *HUGE* difference. The average acceleration is
almost twice as high in the Vaux over the quarter mile. Almost certainly
it will be good for over 200mph, because the power will drop off after
the peak, and it will definitely get there a hell of a lot sooner and be
a hell of a lot further down the road when it does.

As Burgerman says, in a give and take race on the motorway, where speeds
probably aren't going to venture above 200mph that much, the vaux is
pretty certain to win. If you throw in nasty surfaces, bends or long
smooth straights, then it becomes less clear and probably favours the
Veyron. Possibly

> Also, unless we see a verified dyno test of that Vauxhall's engine,
> we've got only his word for it that it makes 2000hp. People are known
> to embellish such claims. And where is that engine making its power?
> Aren't the powerband characteristics of the engine important?
Of course, but then it does post a 1/4 mile time which roughly
corresponds with what you might expect for the claimed power figure.
The video showed it to be surprisingly tractable when tootling.

> You say there's not enough distance to get to full speed - if it gets
> over 220 in 1.5 miles, doesn't seem he needs much distance to go
> plenty fast. Aren't there straightaways longer than that in Europe?
There are plenty of straight sections of that sort of length, but the
Vaux gets to 200+mph in less than 0.5 mile, so it will have made rather
a significant lead by the time the Veyron matches it's top speed, one
would imagine.
OK, stuff it, lets do the geek thing properly I've done a noddy
excel drag-race, using the available data for both cars. Assuming that
the Vaux has a max speed of 200mph then we get:
http://www.dur.ac.uk/a.k.kirby/images/drag/vaux_200.jpg
The veyron overtakes after 36s, 3km down the road

If the Vaux can hit 210mph, then it looks like:
http://www.dur.ac.uk/a.k.kirby/images/drag/vaux_210.jpg
This time the Veyron takes 42s and 3.5km to overtake.

I haven't produced the graphs, but if V-max for the vaux were 240mph,
then it takes just over 100s and 10.5km!

I should point out that this is entirely based on noddy physics and
googled data, so should be taken with a pinch or 10 of salt

> Btw, how does your bike compare to a Yamaha R1? There's video on
> YouTube of an R1 getting repeatedly, seriously smoked by a Veyron.

Heh, our Burgerman was/is the full-fat nutcase type of drag biker - I'm
not sure about the specifics, but it was some sort of fast sports bike
with a huge turbo and nitrous, getting about 300HP at the wheel, IIRC.
Quite a lot quicker than an R1, anyway, I'd imagine.
 >> Stay informed about: In what distance would a Bugatti Veyron beat that Vauxhall.. 

"Doc" wrote in message

> We KNOW the Veyron is good for 253 mph - there's video of it doing it
> and STILL incrementally climbing.

Don't forget that the Veyron like the M5 is electronically limited to it's
top speed, unofficially Bugatti techs say it will do the far side of 270 when
de restricted but no one will make a road tyre that's up to it.

> Have you seen that video of the Veyron vs the Audi R8? If the specs I
> saw are correct, that Audi is a near 190 mph car . They punch it from
> a highway speed start - with the Audi going first. When the Veyron
> floors it, it looks like the Audi slammed the brakes on even though
> he's accelerating, and damn quickly given how fast he's reading off
> the speed 100 - 110 - 120 about as fast as he can say it. Yet by the
> time he hits 120 that Veyron is GONE.

This one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS_unscao0Q
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