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Next: New Hampshire WRX owners...
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External
Since: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 2
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 10:32 pm
Post subject: What Subaru to choose (WRX, RS or Legacy) ?
Archived from groups: alt>autos>subaru (more info?)
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Hi there,
I drove a non-turbo Subaru Impreza, and I was impressed with its
handling and acceleration. I would like to buy a few-years old Subaru.
The question is, which one. In the beginning, I wanted an Impreza WRX
because it had a turbo and allegedly provided loads of fun. On the
second thought, I realised that I am not that young anymore, and I do
not value the acceleration capability of a car as much as I value
getting pleasure from handling the car. The best handling, I heard, is
provided by BMW, and the model 325 was named most often. German card
are expensive in here, but I heard that Subaru is the one out of the
Japanese makers which manufactures the cars most resembling German cars
in handling.
At the moment, I am thinking about:
Impreza WRX -- 2L or 2.5L turbo
Impreza RS -- 2.5L
Legacy/Liberty -- 2.5L or 3L
It occurs to me that RS should be almost as good as WRX only
accelerating slower, but still with more grunt than I normally need.
Compared with the plain RX version, the RS has larger wheels, and a
larger engine (2.5L vs 2L). RS has its engine from Legacy, and thus it
has less torque at mid-range revs, but more torque at low revs than RX.
I wonder if this makes handling RS more pleasureable compared with
handling the RX. And generally, I wonder if RS handles better than
plain RX.
My other thought was to "grow up" and get a larger car, a Legacy. It is
larger than Impreza and thus it occurs to me it might be less
maneurable. Is the pleasure from driving Legacy better than from
Impreza ? People say that Legacy with 2L is a slug, so they strongly
recommend a 2.5-L engine. I wonder if the 3L engine is a must ?
My last thought was that perhaps the differences in driving RS or RX or
Legacy were marginal, and thus I just might have a cheaper option of RX
and be happy with it.
Thanks in advance. I guess I would like to have some pointers before I
start taking the cars for test drive.
D. |
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External
Since: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 2
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 5:30 am
Post subject: Re: What Subaru to choose (WRX, RS or Legacy) ? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Carl 1 Lucky Texan wrote:
> Stay with the Impreza platform. What year models are you shopping?
> Some are more likely to have headgasket failures than others. make sure
> you take that into account if there is no proof the HGs have already
> been changed.
Why "stay with Impreza platform" and not with Legacy/Liberty ?
Yes, and my other criterion for choice is the longevity of the
mechanics of the car. Obviously, the turbo WRX has a greater pressure
in the cylinder than RX, so the mechanics of RX should last longer
(inlcuding headgaskets). I am thinking about buying a 2-4 year old car.
D. |
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External
Since: Jan 20, 2004
Posts: 998
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:55 am
Post subject: Re: What Subaru to choose (WRX, RS or Legacy) ? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> I drove a non-turbo Subaru Impreza, and I was impressed with its
> handling and acceleration. I would like to buy a few-years old Subaru.
> The question is, which one. In the beginning, I wanted an Impreza WRX
> because it had a turbo and allegedly provided loads of fun. On the
> second thought, I realised that I am not that young anymore, and I do
> not value the acceleration capability of a car as much as I value
> getting pleasure from handling the car. The best handling, I heard, is
> provided by BMW, and the model 325 was named most often. German card
> are expensive in here, but I heard that Subaru is the one out of the
> Japanese makers which manufactures the cars most resembling German cars
> in handling.
>
> At the moment, I am thinking about:
>
> Impreza WRX -- 2L or 2.5L turbo
> Impreza RS -- 2.5L
> Legacy/Liberty -- 2.5L or 3L
>
> It occurs to me that RS should be almost as good as WRX only
> accelerating slower, but still with more grunt than I normally need.
> Compared with the plain RX version, the RS has larger wheels, and a
> larger engine (2.5L vs 2L). RS has its engine from Legacy, and thus it
> has less torque at mid-range revs, but more torque at low revs than RX.
> I wonder if this makes handling RS more pleasureable compared with
> handling the RX. And generally, I wonder if RS handles better than
> plain RX.
>
> My other thought was to "grow up" and get a larger car, a Legacy. It is
> larger than Impreza and thus it occurs to me it might be less
> maneurable. Is the pleasure from driving Legacy better than from
> Impreza ? People say that Legacy with 2L is a slug, so they strongly
> recommend a 2.5-L engine. I wonder if the 3L engine is a must ?
>
> My last thought was that perhaps the differences in driving RS or RX or
> Legacy were marginal, and thus I just might have a cheaper option of RX
> and be happy with it.
>
> Thanks in advance. I guess I would like to have some pointers before I
> start taking the cars for test drive.
>
> D.
>
Stay with the Impreza platform. What year models are you shopping?
Some are more likely to have headgasket failures than others. make sure
you take that into account if there is no proof the HGs have already
been changed.
just my thoughts on the matter
Carl
--
to reply, change ( .not) to ( .net) >> Stay informed about: What Subaru to choose (WRX, RS or Legacy) ? |
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External
Since: Feb 15, 2006
Posts: 24
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:07 am
Post subject: Re: What Subaru to choose (WRX, RS or Legacy) ? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 2006-02-28, penned:
>
> Carl 1 Lucky Texan wrote:
>
>> Stay with the Impreza platform. What year models are you
>> shopping? Some are more likely to have headgasket failures than
>> others. make sure you take that into account if there is no proof
>> the HGs have already been changed.
>
> Why "stay with Impreza platform" and not with Legacy/Liberty ?
I have heard the WRX praised with handling on par with BMWs; not so
any other Subaru model. I don't know if the non-turbo Impreza has the
same handling; pretty sure the WRX has a stiffer suspension. Which
also means you do feel every bump on the road.
> Yes, and my other criterion for choice is the longevity of the
> mechanics of the car. Obviously, the turbo WRX has a greater
> pressure in the cylinder than RX, so the mechanics of RX should last
> longer (inlcuding headgaskets). I am thinking about buying a 2-4
> year old car.
I have also heard a lot of stories about WRX transmissions falling
apart. Then again, I have also observed a lot of WRX drivers, and
their driving is analogous to flogging a horse till it's in a bloody
froth. The service manager at my dealership even commented on how
well my WRX drives after 30K miles; he says many have been so abused
by that point that they drive horribly. Which is another thing to
think about, buying used.
Here are some things to know about the WRX:
1) It is NOT a luxury car. If you are looking for creature comforts,
look elsewhere.
2) Find out if you mind turbo lag. Until turbo kicks in, it will feel
slow, especially compared to what it feels like when turbo is engaged.
3) Do you drive at altitude much? The turbo really seems to help
when, say, driving I-70 in Colorado at 8,000 feet.
Still, if the main question is handling, why not test drive all three
models on exactly the same stretch of road? You should be able to
tell pretty easily which one feels best to you.
--
monique >> Stay informed about: What Subaru to choose (WRX, RS or Legacy) ? |
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External
Since: Jan 20, 2004
Posts: 998
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:55 pm
Post subject: Re: What Subaru to choose (WRX, RS or Legacy) ? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Monique Y. Mudama wrote:
> On 2006-02-28, penned:
>
>>Carl 1 Lucky Texan wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Stay with the Impreza platform. What year models are you
>>> shopping? Some are more likely to have headgasket failures than
>>> others. make sure you take that into account if there is no proof
>>> the HGs have already been changed.
>>
>>Why "stay with Impreza platform" and not with Legacy/Liberty ?
>
>
> I have heard the WRX praised with handling on par with BMWs; not so
> any other Subaru model. I don't know if the non-turbo Impreza has the
> same handling; pretty sure the WRX has a stiffer suspension. Which
> also means you do feel every bump on the road.
>
>
>>Yes, and my other criterion for choice is the longevity of the
>>mechanics of the car. Obviously, the turbo WRX has a greater
>>pressure in the cylinder than RX, so the mechanics of RX should last
>>longer (inlcuding headgaskets). I am thinking about buying a 2-4
>>year old car.
>
>
> I have also heard a lot of stories about WRX transmissions falling
> apart. Then again, I have also observed a lot of WRX drivers, and
> their driving is analogous to flogging a horse till it's in a bloody
> froth. The service manager at my dealership even commented on how
> well my WRX drives after 30K miles; he says many have been so abused
> by that point that they drive horribly. Which is another thing to
> think about, buying used.
>
> Here are some things to know about the WRX:
>
> 1) It is NOT a luxury car. If you are looking for creature comforts,
> look elsewhere.
>
> 2) Find out if you mind turbo lag. Until turbo kicks in, it will feel
> slow, especially compared to what it feels like when turbo is engaged.
>
> 3) Do you drive at altitude much? The turbo really seems to help
> when, say, driving I-70 in Colorado at 8,000 feet.
>
> Still, if the main question is handling, why not test drive all three
> models on exactly the same stretch of road? You should be able to
> tell pretty easily which one feels best to you.
>
Pretty much my thoughts exactly. Plus, if he buys a more 'sedate'
Impreza - say a 2.2L OBS, there will be more suspension options as
take-offs and after market than for the Legacy platform. I suppose it
would be good to know if the OP will be driving any non-paved roads.
Then, the xtra clearance of some models comes into play.
good post
Carl
--
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External
Since: Feb 13, 2006
Posts: 15
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:55 pm
Post subject: Re: What Subaru to choose (WRX, RS or Legacy) ? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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> Monique Y. Mudama wrote:
>
>> On 2006-02-28, penned:
>>
>>> Carl 1 Lucky Texan wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Stay with the Impreza platform. What year models are you
>>>> shopping? Some are more likely to have headgasket failures than
>>>> others. make sure you take that into account if there is no proof
>>>> the HGs have already been changed.
>>>
>>>
>>> Why "stay with Impreza platform" and not with Legacy/Liberty ?
>>
>>
>>
>> I have heard the WRX praised with handling on par with BMWs; not so
>> any other Subaru model. I don't know if the non-turbo Impreza has the
>> same handling; pretty sure the WRX has a stiffer suspension. Which
>> also means you do feel every bump on the road.
We recently got a 2006 Impreza sport wagon (non-turbo) for my wife.
I've driven some pretty decent handling cars of late, I have a 2003 EVO,
very similar to the STI, maybe just a tad stiffer in the spring
department, and my inlaws own a 2002 BMW 330ci & a 2002 BMW 530i 4 door,
both of which I have driven fairly extensively. I must say I am very
favorably impressed with the Impreza's handling, even in the context of
the other 3. I'd say the EVO is tops in terms of sheer capability in
that department, but that definitely comes at the expensive of ride
compliance. The interior trim quality of the Impreza is in general
higher than that of my Mitsu, though I greatly prefer the EVO's Recaro
seats (the lower seat cushions on the Impreza is a bit short for me).
The carrying capacity of the wagon is really useful as well.
Dan >> Stay informed about: What Subaru to choose (WRX, RS or Legacy) ? |
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External
Since: Jan 20, 2004
Posts: 998
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:55 am
Post subject: Re: What Subaru to choose (WRX, RS or Legacy) ? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Dan wrote:
>> Monique Y. Mudama wrote:
>>
>>> On 2006-02-28, penned:
>>>
>>>> Carl 1 Lucky Texan wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Stay with the Impreza platform. What year models are you
>>>>> shopping? Some are more likely to have headgasket failures than
>>>>> others. make sure you take that into account if there is no proof
>>>>> the HGs have already been changed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Why "stay with Impreza platform" and not with Legacy/Liberty ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have heard the WRX praised with handling on par with BMWs; not so
>>> any other Subaru model. I don't know if the non-turbo Impreza has the
>>> same handling; pretty sure the WRX has a stiffer suspension. Which
>>> also means you do feel every bump on the road.
>
>
> We recently got a 2006 Impreza sport wagon (non-turbo) for my wife. I've
> driven some pretty decent handling cars of late, I have a 2003 EVO, very
> similar to the STI, maybe just a tad stiffer in the spring department,
> and my inlaws own a 2002 BMW 330ci & a 2002 BMW 530i 4 door, both of
> which I have driven fairly extensively. I must say I am very favorably
> impressed with the Impreza's handling, even in the context of the other
> 3. I'd say the EVO is tops in terms of sheer capability in that
> department, but that definitely comes at the expensive of ride
> compliance. The interior trim quality of the Impreza is in general
> higher than that of my Mitsu, though I greatly prefer the EVO's Recaro
> seats (the lower seat cushions on the Impreza is a bit short for me).
> The carrying capacity of the wagon is really useful as well.
>
> Dan
High praise from an EVO pilot. (nice cars BTW)
Carl
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External
Since: Feb 13, 2006
Posts: 15
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:55 am
Post subject: Re: What Subaru to choose (WRX, RS or Legacy) ? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Carl 1 Lucky Texan wrote:
>
> High praise from an EVO pilot. (nice cars BTW)
>
> Carl
>
>
Yeah, I like it ok  In terms of handling vs ride though, I must say
though, I enjoy driving it more since I replaced the original all-out
Yoko tires (at 10k! SHEESH that sticky rubber wears out fast!) with a
set of Michelin pilot sport all seasons. I really like these tires.
Better ride & quieter, though no doubt the absolute handling is reduced.
Plus you COULD NOT drive this car in even an inch of snow with the
Yoko's. >> Stay informed about: What Subaru to choose (WRX, RS or Legacy) ? |
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External
Since: Mar 09, 2005
Posts: 69
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:55 pm
Post subject: Re: What Subaru to choose (WRX, RS or Legacy) ? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Dan wrote:
> Yeah, I like it ok In terms of handling vs ride though, I must say
> though, I enjoy driving it more since I replaced the original all-out
> Yoko tires (at 10k! SHEESH that sticky rubber wears out fast!) with a
> set of Michelin pilot sport all seasons. I really like these tires.
> Better ride & quieter, though no doubt the absolute handling is reduced.
> Plus you COULD NOT drive this car in even an inch of snow with the
> Yoko's.
"Only" 10k? The stock RE070's on the STi are only rated for 14KM, or 8K
miles..! (Err.. which are you talking about?  >> Stay informed about: What Subaru to choose (WRX, RS or Legacy) ? |
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External
Since: Feb 13, 2006
Posts: 15
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:55 pm
Post subject: Re: What Subaru to choose (WRX, RS or Legacy) ? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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k. ote wrote:
> Dan wrote:
>
>
>>Yeah, I like it ok In terms of handling vs ride though, I must say
>>though, I enjoy driving it more since I replaced the original all-out
>>Yoko tires (at 10k! SHEESH that sticky rubber wears out fast!) with a
>>set of Michelin pilot sport all seasons. I really like these tires.
>>Better ride & quieter, though no doubt the absolute handling is reduced.
>> Plus you COULD NOT drive this car in even an inch of snow with the
>>Yoko's.
>
>
> "Only" 10k? The stock RE070's on the STi are only rated for 14KM, or 8K
> miles..! (Err.. which are you talking about?
>
Talking about the original Yokohama ADVAN A046's on my EVO. Real
sticky. Real soft. You don't expect any of these to last long, but 8K
miles? Yikes. >> Stay informed about: What Subaru to choose (WRX, RS or Legacy) ? |
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External
Since: Mar 09, 2005
Posts: 69
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:55 pm
Post subject: Re: What Subaru to choose (WRX, RS or Legacy) ? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Dan wrote:
> k. ote wrote:
>> "Only" 10k? The stock RE070's on the STi are only rated for 14KM, or 8K
>> miles..! (Err.. which are you talking about?
>>
>
> Talking about the original Yokohama ADVAN A046's on my EVO. Real
> sticky. Real soft. You don't expect any of these to last long, but 8K
> miles? Yikes.
The stock RE070's on the STi are pretty much slicks. Barely any tread, lots
of rubber contact with the road, super-stiff sidewalls (I joke that you can
chip a tooth driving over a dime,) and while they're only rated for about
14KM (their treadwear rating is 140) I've driven them pretty softly and
still have about half (or more) of the tread left after 20KM.
I always get the impression that I'm disappointing someone because I don't
drive the car any harder. I mean I do squeal tires and tear through windies
with a wide-open throttle, but of course my comfort zone ends when I don't
have any visibility on a corner that could have wildlife or parked cars
sitting on the side of the road.
Maybe they rated it at 140 because they're expecting people to track race
their STIs the first opportunity they get. >> Stay informed about: What Subaru to choose (WRX, RS or Legacy) ? |
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External
Since: Feb 13, 2006
Posts: 15
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:55 pm
Post subject: Re: What Subaru to choose (WRX, RS or Legacy) ? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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k. ote wrote:
>
> The stock RE070's on the STi are pretty much slicks. Barely any tread, lots
> of rubber contact with the road, super-stiff sidewalls (I joke that you can
> chip a tooth driving over a dime,) and while they're only rated for about
> 14KM (their treadwear rating is 140) I've driven them pretty softly and
> still have about half (or more) of the tread left after 20KM.
>
> I always get the impression that I'm disappointing someone because I don't
> drive the car any harder. I mean I do squeal tires and tear through windies
> with a wide-open throttle, but of course my comfort zone ends when I don't
> have any visibility on a corner that could have wildlife or parked cars
> sitting on the side of the road.
>
> Maybe they rated it at 140 because they're expecting people to track race
> their STIs the first opportunity they get.
>
I agree about driving the cars hard. I enjoy my EVO, but no 7,000 rpm
clutch drops. Wish I had a nickel for every time I've had some kid in a
rusty 89 Accord riding my tail trying to egg me on >> Stay informed about: What Subaru to choose (WRX, RS or Legacy) ? |
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External
Since: Mar 09, 2005
Posts: 69
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 3:55 pm
Post subject: Re: What Subaru to choose (WRX, RS or Legacy) ? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Dan wrote:
> I agree about driving the cars hard. I enjoy my EVO, but no 7,000 rpm
> clutch drops. Wish I had a nickel for every time I've had some kid in a
> rusty 89 Accord riding my tail trying to egg me on
Not many people egg me on around here, but when they do, I think they just
want to see me tear away from them like a rocket, because it always seems
like they never actually floor it.
I think I disappointed some superbikers a while back. They thumbs-upped my
car but seemed very put off when I didn't do a hard launch. wtf?! I'm
not glazing my clutch just to make you happy man..! >> Stay informed about: What Subaru to choose (WRX, RS or Legacy) ? |
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External
Since: Dec 06, 2004
Posts: 68
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:52 pm
Post subject: Re: What Subaru to choose (WRX, RS or Legacy) ? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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wrote:
> Carl 1 Lucky Texan wrote:
>
> > Stay with the Impreza platform. What year models are you shopping?
> > Some are more likely to have headgasket failures than others. make sure
> > you take that into account if there is no proof the HGs have already
> > been changed.
>
> Why "stay with Impreza platform" and not with Legacy/Liberty ?
>
> Yes, and my other criterion for choice is the longevity of the
> mechanics of the car. Obviously, the turbo WRX has a greater pressure
> in the cylinder than RX, so the mechanics of RX should last longer
> (inlcuding headgaskets). I am thinking about buying a 2-4 year old car.
I don't think the increased pressure is that big a problem. The
engine can take the abuse in factory form (not sure about some
of the extreme aftermarket mods though). The issue may be
turbo longevity, but it rebuilding/replacing a turbo is supposed
to be fairly painless, compared to an engine rebuild. >> Stay informed about: What Subaru to choose (WRX, RS or Legacy) ? |
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External
Since: Jan 20, 2004
Posts: 998
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 7:55 pm
Post subject: Re: What Subaru to choose (WRX, RS or Legacy) ? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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y_p_w wrote:
> wrote:
>
>>Carl 1 Lucky Texan wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Stay with the Impreza platform. What year models are you shopping?
>>>Some are more likely to have headgasket failures than others. make sure
>>>you take that into account if there is no proof the HGs have already
>>>been changed.
>>
>>Why "stay with Impreza platform" and not with Legacy/Liberty ?
>>
>>Yes, and my other criterion for choice is the longevity of the
>>mechanics of the car. Obviously, the turbo WRX has a greater pressure
>>in the cylinder than RX, so the mechanics of RX should last longer
>>(inlcuding headgaskets). I am thinking about buying a 2-4 year old car.
>
>
> I don't think the increased pressure is that big a problem. The
> engine can take the abuse in factory form (not sure about some
> of the extreme aftermarket mods though). The issue may be
> turbo longevity, but it rebuilding/replacing a turbo is supposed
> to be fairly painless, compared to an engine rebuild.
>
Plus, the overall pressure is not that much different since the NA soobs
DON'T have a turbo, the compression is higher all the time. If there is
no boost, the turbo models have LOWER CRs and less pressure. Think of it
as high performance on demand versus moderate performance all the time
whether needed or not .
Carl
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