manual or automatic?

On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 06:55:38 GMT, David Betts <dabetts RemoveThis @ntlworld.com>
wrote:

>The difference on a Rex is between 25.000 and 65,000 miles. Don't know
>anybody who has got much more than 65 out of a clutch. The point is -
>and I've made this before - that a powerful awd car can't dissipate
>excess power at launch as wheelspin, therefore it has to slip the
>clutch. Also, powerful awd drive cars put a trememdous load on their
>transmission and there has to be a weak link somewhere. Much cheaper
>and simpler to change a clutch than to change a gearbox <g>. Simply
>regard it as a consumable - like tyres and brakes.

Are you trolling? I can't believe you are seriously posting this
preposterous theory. I drive a 98 Audi A4 2.8 quattro car, and I've
got 90k miles on the original clutch, even with heavy driving and
extensive use of the car's excellent power. I have no intention of
trashing my clutch, and I drive properly. These good cars are
engineered well all over, and the only thing that should go before 65k
miles are brake pads, a true wear item. Our 99 Subaru Legacy Outback
did get a new clutch at 79k miles only because we bought the car used
at 66k miles, and the previous owner drove probably like you do.
 >> Stay informed about: manual or automatic? 

On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 06:50:07 GMT, David Betts <dabetts.DeleteThis@ntlworld.com>
wrote:

>On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 12:53:18 -0400, "grape" <j@s> wrote:
>
>>plan to own a impreza 2.5rs wagon, never drove a manual before, but 'd like
>>to.
>>
>>Friends who owned a manual car warned me that in daily commutes, your leg
>>will be extremely painful if got jammed in traffic... that hesitated me to
>>buy a manual car, is that true???
>
>No. Anyone who gets leg pain from using a clutch is desperately unfit.
>Anybody with normal levels of fitness, ie capable of walking a few
>miles, will have no problems.

This, I agree with.
 >> Stay informed about: manual or automatic? 

In article <mivge1tht74djsn0bfdgksmv7m83uvkef8.DeleteThis@4ax.com>,
David Betts <dabetts.DeleteThis@ntlworld.com> wrote:

> The difference on a Rex is between 25.000 and 65,000 miles. Don't know
> anybody who has got much more than 65 out of a clutch.

Gimme a break, please. I am 66. Got my first car in 1965 and since
then I have owned only one car with an automatic transmission.

In all those cars, I have replaced one clutch.

My current 92 525i BMW has 105,000 miles and the original clutch.

Gunny
 >> Stay informed about: manual or automatic? 

In article <gunni-F9B49E.22165028072005.DeleteThis@news1.east.earthlink.net>,
"R. Gerard" <gunni.DeleteThis@mailinator.com> wrote:

> In article <mivge1tht74djsn0bfdgksmv7m83uvkef8.DeleteThis@4ax.com>,
> David Betts <dabetts.DeleteThis@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> > The difference on a Rex is between 25.000 and 65,000 miles. Don't know
> > anybody who has got much more than 65 out of a clutch.
>
> Gimme a break, please. I am 66. Got my first car in 1965 and since
> then I have owned only one car with an automatic transmission.
>
> In all those cars, I have replaced one clutch.
>
> My current 92 525i BMW has 105,000 miles and the original clutch.

Indeed.

I have an automatic Subaru but all previous cars and motorcycles
have been manual. I replaced the clutch in my last car, a 2.0l Toyota
Corona liftback, at just over 200,000 km (125,000 miles), but only
because it was already being opened up in that area due to a warranty
gear box recondition (I got a 3 year mechanical warranty with it when I
bought the car at 160,000 km) so all I had to pay for was the parts.
the mechanic said the clutch looked to have at least another couple of
years wear in it bu I figured it was better to not use the entire clutch
plate than to have to pay to open it all up again later.

--
Bruce | 41.1670S | \ spoken | -+-
Hoult | 174.8263E | /\ here. | ----------O----------
 >> Stay informed about: manual or automatic? 

i have a friend who was still driving is 1993 AUDI with 320,000 km on the
original clutch..... car, quality driver. make a big difference

Pat

"KLS" <xymergy DeleteThis @suds.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
sanie11gjas77ibj6rj2cbtc32iisp3366 DeleteThis @4ax.com...
> On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 06:50:07 GMT, David Betts <dabetts DeleteThis @ntlworld.com>
> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 12:53:18 -0400, "grape" <j@s> wrote:
>>
>>>plan to own a impreza 2.5rs wagon, never drove a manual before, but 'd
>>>like
>>>to.
>>>
>>>Friends who owned a manual car warned me that in daily commutes, your leg
>>>will be extremely painful if got jammed in traffic... that hesitated me
>>>to
>>>buy a manual car, is that true???
>>
>>No. Anyone who gets leg pain from using a clutch is desperately unfit.
>>Anybody with normal levels of fitness, ie capable of walking a few
>>miles, will have no problems.
>
> This, I agree with.
 >> Stay informed about: manual or automatic? 

So you feel Subaru aint high quality due to HG and bearing problems?

I am kinda scared run off for a Toyota
"Patrick" <patrick DeleteThis @leclone.com> wrote in message
news:XYOdnVj8xoOLJXTfRVn-pQ@b2b2c.ca...
>i have a friend who was still driving is 1993 AUDI with 320,000 km on the
>original clutch..... car, quality driver. make a big difference
>
 >> Stay informed about: manual or automatic? 

ok, and my Current Toyota camry le v6 1994 has 388,000 km on it!!!

so Toyota outruns Audi? haha
"Patrick" <patrick.TakeThisOut@leclone.com> wrote in message
news:XYOdnVj8xoOLJXTfRVn-pQ@b2b2c.ca...
>i have a friend who was still driving is 1993 AUDI with 320,000 km on the
>original clutch..... car, quality driver. make a big difference
>
 >> Stay informed about: manual or automatic? 

"grape" <j@s> wrote in message news:X5CdnRyTXoZhI3TfRVn-sg@mycybernet.net...

> So you feel Subaru aint high quality due to HG and bearing problems?


I think you misdirected your question to someone else.

Yes, I really do think the bearings problem (Impreza's),
and particularly the head gasket issue (2.5L engine) are
signs of an engineering quality problem.

If it were Hyundai's gaskets failing so frequently and Hyundai's
bearings falling apart you wouldn't probably hesitate to call it
a quality problem.

Why not call things by their name in case of Subaru?

MN

ps. with respect to the clutches issue i.e. some people
quoting very long lifespan on non-AWD cars; David Betts
mentioned specifically AWD as having a life shortening
effect (and in high powered vehicles -WRX's, etc.), and that
is absolutely true, unless you decide to drive a sporty car in
a grandfatherly fashion, so to speak.



> I am kinda scared run off for a Toyota
> "Patrick" <patrick RemoveThis @leclone.com> wrote in message
> news:XYOdnVj8xoOLJXTfRVn-pQ@b2b2c.ca...
>>i have a friend who was still driving is 1993 AUDI with 320,000 km on the
>>original clutch..... car, quality driver. make a big difference
>>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: manual or automatic? 

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 16:01:08 +1200, Bruce Hoult <bruce DeleteThis @hoult.org>
wrote:

>In article <gunni-F9B49E.22165028072005 DeleteThis @news1.east.earthlink.net>,
> "R. Gerard" <gunni DeleteThis @mailinator.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <mivge1tht74djsn0bfdgksmv7m83uvkef8 DeleteThis @4ax.com>,
>> David Betts <dabetts DeleteThis @ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>
>> > The difference on a Rex is between 25.000 and 65,000 miles. Don't know
>> > anybody who has got much more than 65 out of a clutch.
>>
>> Gimme a break, please. I am 66. Got my first car in 1965 and since
>> then I have owned only one car with an automatic transmission.
>>
>> In all those cars, I have replaced one clutch.
>>
>> My current 92 525i BMW has 105,000 miles and the original clutch.
>
>Indeed.
>
>I have an automatic Subaru but all previous cars and motorcycles
>have been manual. I replaced the clutch in my last car, a 2.0l Toyota
>Corona liftback, at just over 200,000 km (125,000 miles)...etc

Points taken, guys, but we are talking about a Rex here. This is a
rocket ship. It is in a totally different league to the cars you are
talking about. These cars are designed to use up their clutches. All
I'm saying is that purchasers should get used to the idea or buy
something else.

David Betts
davidb DeleteThis @motorsport.org.uk
 >> Stay informed about: manual or automatic? 

On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 20:06:59 GMT, "MN" <MN.RemoveThis@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>
>"David Betts" <dabetts.RemoveThis@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
>news:3tvge1tlvqbu035hknaaheon70dq9n3gmf@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 20:47:59 -0400, "grape" <j@s> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> Used Subarus are also a bit risky due to the problems they had
>>>> with clutches, head gaskets and piston slap. New models are
>>>> supposted to be better (I'm counting on it).
>>>
>>>err.... so it's risky to own a Sub in general? I've heard a blowing
>>>headgasket is expensive.
>>
>> Ignore the trolls. Subarus are amongst the best built, best engineered
>> most reliable cars in the world. Plenty of evidence in the customer
>> satisfaction surveys.
>
>
>Trolls aside, but are you suggesting that Subaru has not had
>some fairly serious quality problems in recent years? Are you
>blind perhaps?

Here we go again. Not getting into it. Fed up to the back teeth with
twhiners and whingers who infest this newsgroup. They are a tiny
minority in relations to the vast majority of satisfied Subaru owners
throughout the world.

David Betts
davidb.RemoveThis@motorsport.org.uk
 >> Stay informed about: manual or automatic? 

R. Gerard wrote:
> In article <mivge1tht74djsn0bfdgksmv7m83uvkef8.TakeThisOut@4ax.com>,
> David Betts <dabetts.TakeThisOut@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>> The difference on a Rex is between 25.000 and 65,000 miles. Don't
>> know anybody who has got much more than 65 out of a clutch.
>
> Gimme a break, please. I am 66. Got my first car in 1965 and since
> then I have owned only one car with an automatic transmission.
>
> In all those cars, I have replaced one clutch.
>
> My current 92 525i BMW has 105,000 miles and the original clutch.
>
> Gunny

Indeed, I have a two & a half ton Land Rover that's still on it's orginal clutch after 240k miles!!!

What a load of bollocks he spouted!


Nige

--�
Subaru WRX (Annabel)

Landrover 110 County Station Wagon (Tyson)

'"Say hello to my little friend"
 >> Stay informed about: manual or automatic? 

"David Betts" <dabetts RemoveThis @ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:6elje1ttqsb6v0m4f5255e5nmpga7a6am6@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 20:06:59 GMT, "MN" <MN RemoveThis @sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>Trolls aside, but are you suggesting that Subaru has not had
>>some fairly serious quality problems in recent years? Are you
>>blind perhaps?
>
> Here we go again. Not getting into it. Fed up to the back teeth with
> twhiners and whingers who infest this newsgroup. They are a tiny
> minority in relations to the vast majority of satisfied Subaru owners
> throughout the world.


Most of Subaru miles are probably driven in US and Australia
and from these people we hear the majority of complaints.

I think it is not the European (or Japanese) driver who on average
makes a tiny amount of miles per year and drives in a cool moist
climate that sees bearings and headgasket failures. I suspect both
these problematic Subaru issues may be somewhat related to higher
temps, and drier climates, where natural air cooling is poorer.

I know my bearings went out after two relatively prolonged
higher speed runs from Reno Nevada to Los Angeles CA in
95 degree weather (400 miles one way at an average speed of
80-90 mph), and a long hot summer trip through Arizona, from
Reno to Albuquerque New Mexico, and back.

US drivers, like myself, who have experienced problems may
not be just a tiny minority of Subaru owners worldwide as you
inconsiderately suggest but a subset of drivers who may be
discovering a defect hidden away from drivers in cool, moist,
parts of the world.


MN



> David Betts
> davidb RemoveThis @motorsport.org.uk
 >> Stay informed about: manual or automatic? 

On 7/28/2005 2:55 AM, David Betts wrote:

> The difference on a Rex is between 25.000 and 65,000 miles. Don't know
> anybody who has got much more than 65 out of a clutch. The point is -
> and I've made this before - that a powerful awd car can't dissipate
> excess power at launch as wheelspin, therefore it has to slip the
> clutch. Also, powerful awd drive cars put a trememdous load on their
> transmission and there has to be a weak link somewhere. Much cheaper
> and simpler to change a clutch than to change a gearbox <g>. Simply
> regard it as a consumable - like tyres and brakes.
>
> David Betts
> davidb RemoveThis @motorsport.org.uk

True, a clutch is a consumable, but too bad it costs so much. After all
the money we save on gas, we lose it when it's time to replace the
clutch. Most automatics don't ever need replacement.

Tom
 >> Stay informed about: manual or automatic?