manual or automatic?

"grape" <j@s> writes:
> plan to own a impreza 2.5rs wagon, never drove a manual before, but 'd like
> to.
>
> Friends who owned a manual car warned me that in daily commutes, your leg
> will be extremely painful if got jammed in traffic... that hesitated me to
> buy a manual car, is that true???
>
> also, is pre-owned WRX a good option? the price is only around $21,000(CDN)
> where new WRX is about 35000.

In my younger years you couldn't get me away from a manual. They're
fun, tend to be a little peppier off the line nad all that.

Then I moved to Chicago.

As Click and Clack say, "Never by a used car from a male under the age
of 30."

Best Regards,
--
Todd H.
2001 Legacy Outback Wagon, 2.5L H-4 AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
Chicago, Illinois USA
 >> Stay informed about: manual or automatic? 

In article <cpKdnXzOeLdiJnrfRVn-gQ DeleteThis @mycybernet.net>, grape <j@s> wrote:
(snip)
>Friends who owned a manual car warned me that in daily commutes, your leg
>will be extremely painful if got jammed in traffic... that hesitated me to
>buy a manual car, is that true???

No, it isn't. I've driven various manual cars in traffic jams, stuck
in stop-and-go traffic up and down hills, and it's not been a problem
once you're used to it. My first manual was back in 1991 and, still,
both of our present cars are manual - my wife and I both prefer them.

If you're new to manual, I would recommend just a couple of lessons,
at least so you can confidently pull away up a hill without stalling
or rolling back or revving way too loudly or whatever. A lot of people
/think/ they can drive stick-shift but make it pretty obvious that
they can't.

>also, is pre-owned WRX a good option? the price is only around $21,000(CDN)
>where new WRX is about 35000.

I would guess so, if that's not many years old.

-- Mark
 >> Stay informed about: manual or automatic? 

I've driven manual cars for almost thirty years. I would certainly
prefer an automatic in stop-and-go traffic. I can't imagine anyone
preferring otherwise. "Clutch in - shift into first - clutch out - creep
a bit - clutch in - shift to neutral - clutch out" gets old real quick.
Someone with weak legs would find it positively painful.

For every other situation, though, I prefer a manual. In the case of
many models from Subaru, the question is more serious since
only the manual transmissions are true all-wheel-drive. If you can
afford a WRX, STi, Legacy GT or high-end Outback then you
can get true AWD with an automatic transmission, otherwise it's
only part-time, being FWD most of the time. This is the case
for regular Legacys and Imprezas as well as all Foresters.

If you can't get hold of a manual car to practice on enough to get
used to driving it then I think you should stick with an automatic.

If you'll be driving in snow (why else would you want a Subaru
it would be useful to try both the automatic and manual RS's in
snow to see the difference between the two forms of four wheel
drive. Either version of the WRX should be great, but as Rick
Courtright wrote I'd also be wary of buying a used WRX.

Used Subarus are also a bit risky due to the problems they had
with clutches, head gaskets and piston slap. New models are
supposted to be better (I'm counting on it).

A used Legacy GT automatic in great shape might be a
nice choice.
 >> Stay informed about: manual or automatic? 

>
> Used Subarus are also a bit risky due to the problems they had
> with clutches, head gaskets and piston slap. New models are
> supposted to be better (I'm counting on it).


err.... so it's risky to own a Sub in general? I've heard a blowing
headgasket is expensive.
 >> Stay informed about: manual or automatic? 

> If you're new to manual, I would recommend just a couple of lessons,
> at least so you can confidently pull away up a hill without stalling
> or rolling back or revving way too loudly or whatever. A lot of people
> /think/ they can drive stick-shift but make it pretty obvious that
> they can't.

I am driving a Camry right now, and treated it as a manual one. put in
Neutral, then rev in certain RPM, gear in D, you can actually *feel* the
wet-clutch in auto gearbox ingaging and slipping (not good to an
auto,though), and my front tyres smoking a bit,So.... does that count ?

Just can't help myself without shifting anything, hehe, every
auto-trannyI've droven will be shifted hell a lot, despite the fact auto
shifting has a noticeable delay.
 >> Stay informed about: manual or automatic? 

This message is not archived
 >> Stay informed about: manual or automatic? 

one of my friends got jerk during a jam... or maybe he got wimpy legs?
 >> Stay informed about: manual or automatic? 

On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 10:52:37 -0700, Rick Courtright
<rcourtright DeleteThis @iname.com> wrote:

>As for a used WRX, if it IS a manual, I'd expect the clutch (and
>possibly the gearbox) to have some wear. It's not the kind of car most
>people are likely to drive sedately.

Actually, most people drive manual transmission cars incompetently, so
you should assume that the clutch in this one, especially since it's a
sporty car, won't last a lot longer. Save the $700 for a new clutch,
starting now. My other half had to replace her clutch at 79k miles
because the previous owner didn't treat it well, and neither did she,
but she's doing much better with the new clutch after that expensive
lesson. The clutch in my 98 Audi is still going perfectly at 89k
miles, and I expect never to replace it for as long as I own the car,
which will be probably another 10 years.
 >> Stay informed about: manual or automatic? 

KLS wrote:

> but she's doing much better with the new clutch after that expensive
> lesson. The clutch in my 98 Audi is still going perfectly at 89k
> miles, and I expect never to replace it for as long as I own the car,
> which will be probably another 10 years.

Hi,

There IS a huge difference between treating a clutch properly and not,
isn't there?

I got my Subie used w/ 209k miles. I can't say the prior owner had been
especially good to the car, but the clutch felt "acceptable" so I
figured out of curiosity, I'd just drive it until it gave up. Throwout
bearing was what gave up... frozen. That was at 310k miles. When I
removed the old one and took the parts to the dealer to match and
replace, my parts guy looked at everything and pronounced it "the
original" clutch! So... treat yours right and who knows how far it can
go?

Rick
 >> Stay informed about: manual or automatic? 

In article <cpKdnXzOeLdiJnrfRVn-gQ.TakeThisOut@mycybernet.net>, "grape" <j@s>
wrote:

> Friends who owned a manual car warned me that in daily commutes, your leg
> will be extremely painful if got jammed in traffic... that hesitated me to
> buy a manual car, is that true???
I drove a manual for many years, but an auto for the last 18 yrs.
An auto well maintained, which is only a proper oil change for modern
autos which auto adjust, will last for many miles. I assume Subrau has
a modern auto.
With a manual the clutch and sync rings will wear. In city driving this
wear is very significant.

My oldie '95 Chrysler has 7 shift points. It has 4 gears with lockup on
the top 3 gears. I downshift on hills. In cruise control it downshifts
itself.
I'm sure I couldn't get more mileage with a manual although I could
probably get a few split seconds more acceleration, which isn't required.
As for driving in snow I prefer the auto on startup, as I can control
wheel spin better. In snow I downshift at times to avoid it running
away at too high a speed on down slopes.

So my suggestion is an auto unless you drive only on the highway.

--
Someone ?
 >> Stay informed about: manual or automatic? 

On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 12:53:18 -0400, "grape" <j@s> wrote:

>plan to own a impreza 2.5rs wagon, never drove a manual before, but 'd like
>to.
>
>Friends who owned a manual car warned me that in daily commutes, your leg
>will be extremely painful if got jammed in traffic... that hesitated me to
>buy a manual car, is that true???

No. Anyone who gets leg pain from using a clutch is desperately unfit.
Anybody with normal levels of fitness, ie capable of walking a few
miles, will have no problems.

>also, is pre-owned WRX a good option? the price is only around $21,000(CDN)
>where new WRX is about 35000.

Yes, as long as it has been properly looked after a used car is always
a better option than a new car. Any delivery/initial manufacture
faults have been dealt with under warranty and the initial
depreciation has taken place.

David Betts
davidb.DeleteThis@motorsport.org.uk
 >> Stay informed about: manual or automatic? 

On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 16:45:22 -0700, Rick Courtright
<rcourtright.RemoveThis@iname.com> wrote:

>There IS a huge difference between treating a clutch properly and not,
>isn't there?
>
>I got my Subie used w/ 209k miles. I can't say the prior owner had been
>especially good to the car, but the clutch felt "acceptable" so I
>figured out of curiosity, I'd just drive it until it gave up. Throwout
>bearing was what gave up... frozen. That was at 310k miles. When I
>removed the old one and took the parts to the dealer to match and
>replace, my parts guy looked at everything and pronounced it "the
>original" clutch! So... treat yours right and who knows how far it can
>go?

The difference on a Rex is between 25.000 and 65,000 miles. Don't know
anybody who has got much more than 65 out of a clutch. The point is -
and I've made this before - that a powerful awd car can't dissipate
excess power at launch as wheelspin, therefore it has to slip the
clutch. Also, powerful awd drive cars put a trememdous load on their
transmission and there has to be a weak link somewhere. Much cheaper
and simpler to change a clutch than to change a gearbox <g>. Simply
regard it as a consumable - like tyres and brakes.

David Betts
davidb.RemoveThis@motorsport.org.uk
 >> Stay informed about: manual or automatic? 

On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 20:47:59 -0400, "grape" <j@s> wrote:


>> Used Subarus are also a bit risky due to the problems they had
>> with clutches, head gaskets and piston slap. New models are
>> supposted to be better (I'm counting on it).
>
>err.... so it's risky to own a Sub in general? I've heard a blowing
>headgasket is expensive.

Ignore the trolls. Subarus are amongst the best built, best engineered
most reliable cars in the world. Plenty of evidence in the customer
satisfaction surveys.

David Betts
davidb.DeleteThis@motorsport.org.uk
 >> Stay informed about: manual or automatic?