freon

On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 09:16:24 -0400, "Coasty"
<uscg_retSPOOGE.TakeThisOut@comcast.net> wrote:

>>
>> What I would like is a filler hose with the newer type tap end for
>> the can, and an attachment that can be used to fill my existing system
>> thru the original valves on the compressor. This would enable me to
>> use R134 leak detector, as well as envirosafe, or some such similar
>> product to recharge the system.
>>
>> Any suggestions?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>> Tony
>
>Tony,
>
>There is a direct replacement for R12 (Freeze 12)however you still need a
>license and be auto AC certified to work on the systems (Federal Law). You
>still need to replace the dryer/accumulator, reclaimed the R12 and draw a
>500 micron vacuum to get everything out, you do not have to change the AC
>compressor. Then the system must be recharged with the correct amount along
>with manufacturers amount of compressor oil. I am licensed in both
>automotive and universal I used Freeze 12 on several older R12 systems with
>good results. R12 is running (if you can find it) at $190.00 per 16oz. A
>decent price for the job is around $250.00 on the east coast for all parts
>and labor.
>--
>Coasty


AC was not working when I purchased the car. PO was told Evap coil was
leaking. I can't get an AC shop to work on it this time of year, as
it wil require a labor intensive removal of the dash. The system must
be completely empty by now, so I do not feel I will be releasing freon
into the atmosphere. I want to determine exactly where the leak(s)
are. If it's the coil, I will get it repaired or replaced thru my
local ac shop. I'll do thr RR myself, then bring the car back to him
to have it properly, amd legally refilled.

This is why I want the proper adapter hose to get leak detector into
the system. I don't want to start pulling good working parts, only to
find out the leak is somewhere else.

Thanks again,

Tony
 >> Stay informed about: freon 

On Wed, 13 Jul 2005, Coasty wrote:

> There is a direct replacement for R12 (Freeze 12)however you still need a
> license and be auto AC certified to work on the systems (Federal Law).

Wrong. There is NO SUCH THING as legal "drop in" for R12.

Some other refrigerants or refrigerant blends are chemically and
physically directly compatible with R12 systems, but legally, Federally,
there is NO SUCH THING as a "drop in". Disregarding this law is very
shortsighted, for it screws up the supply of recycled R12 for everyone.
Every source of information on the topic -- with the possible exception of
shady sellers of non-approved refrigerants -- clearly spells this out.
EPA, MACS, IMACA, etc. A 15-second Google search will clearly demonstrate
it.

> R12 is running (if you can find it) at $190.00 per 16oz.

Bullshit.

Telling alarmist lies helps nobody unless you're trying to sell something,
in which case it only helps you. R12 is not hard to find, and is running
at between $400 and $450 for a 30-pound cylinder, which translates to $13
to $15 per pound...that is around one-fifteenth of the "$190 per 16oz" you
claim.

Don't believe me? Head over to eBay and see for yourself.
 >> Stay informed about: freon 

On Tue, 12 Jul 2005, tom wrote:

> I would like to find r12 substitute for my old a/c system.

Why? Just use R12. Sure, it's more expensive than other compounds, but it
is what the system is designed to work with, you don't need that much of
it, and it's the least problematic choice for a system meant to take R12.

> What I would like is a filler hose with the newer type tap end for
> the can, and an attachment that can be used to fill my existing system

If you manage to cobble together such a device, you will do a great deal
of damage to your A/C system. You will also very likely injure yourself
severely. A/C service is dangerous and requires detailed knowledge of
exactly what and what *not* to do.
 >> Stay informed about: freon 

Actually, Daniel is correct on this one. Conversions from R-12 directly to
anything other than 134A are technically illegal, although it appears that
was an accidental consequence of the wording of some federal regs. Or at
least they used to be that way. HOWEVER, the legality of it is not really
relevant in my opinion. Coasty never said they were legal, and Dan just
basically changed the subject.

Here's what the OP should do. Go far away from here, and take this question
to aircondition.com forums. People over there just live for this question.
There really are many functional replacements for R12, however illegal to
convert. Each one has different pluses, but they all probably work okay. And
you can buy them, although you will have to get certified to do so. Becoming
certified is pretty easy. Actually it's real easy. Well, really, all they
want is the test fee.
 >> Stay informed about: freon 

Joe wrote:
> Actually, Daniel is correct on this one. Conversions from R-12 directly to
> anything other than 134A are technically illegal, although it appears that
> was an accidental consequence of the wording of some federal regs. Or at
> least they used to be that way. HOWEVER, the legality of it is not really
> relevant in my opinion. Coasty never said they were legal, and Dan just
> basically changed the subject.
>
> Here's what the OP should do. Go far away from here, and take this question
> to aircondition.com forums. People over there just live for this question.
> There really are many functional replacements for R12, however illegal to
> convert. Each one has different pluses, but they all probably work okay. And
> you can buy them, although you will have to get certified to do so. Becoming
> certified is pretty easy. Actually it's real easy. Well, really, all they
> want is the test fee.
>
>

I hear propane works really well.




JUST KIDDING GUYS!! *^)

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')
 >> Stay informed about: freon 

aarcuda69062 wrote:

> In article <gp89d1p5kik822c8toiic18h4n6hbt4m7o DeleteThis @4ax.com>,
> tom <tom DeleteThis @adelphia.net> wrote:

>>...Local stores in the LA area pep boys, auto Zone, etc, say I need a
>>license to buy the environmentally safe stuff, yet is available online
>>with no such requirement.
>
>
> Many states have their own licensing requirements, some only
> require the purchaser to have the "609" certification. Check the
> laws in your state.

Maybe I missed something in what was being said there, but apparently in
my state, there are absolutely no licensing requirements for 134A.
Anyone can walk into any auto parts store and buy it just like they
would an oil filter. I assumed it was that way in most other U.S.
states. Apparently not? (or am I mis-reading something said earlier?)

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')
 >> Stay informed about: freon 

On Wed, 13 Jul 2005, Joe wrote:

> Actually, Daniel is correct on this one. Conversions from R-12 directly to
> anything other than 134A are technically illegal,

That's not correct.

1) Conversions from R12 "directly" to ANYTHING (including R134a) are
illegal. _EACH AND EVERY_ approved refrigerant has its own fittings (which
must be *permanently* installed on a retrofitted system; removable
adaptors don't cut it), usage conditions such as barrier hoses for most of
them, and labelling requirements. There is NOTHING aside from R12 that can
legally be introduced into an unmodified R12 system.

2) There are lots of legally approved automotive refrigerants.
 >> Stay informed about: freon 

In article <db4h1c$3he$1@news.isdn.net>,
Bill Putney <bptn.TakeThisOut@kinez.net> wrote:

> > Many states have their own licensing requirements, some only
> > require the purchaser to have the "609" certification. Check the
> > laws in your state.
>
> Maybe I missed something in what was being said there, but apparently in
> my state, there are absolutely no licensing requirements for 134A.

Entirely possible.
In Wisconsin and I suspect a few other states with draconian laws
one needs a state license in order to purchase R-134a or R-12.
The selling vendor (NAPA CarQuest, etc) has to have a copy of the
license on file in case the state checks.
I can go to Michigan, Illinois, Indiana and buy R134a right off
the shelf at Walmart.
The Wisconsin license amounts to nothing more than another tax on
the business owner.

> Anyone can walk into any auto parts store and buy it just like they
> would an oil filter. I assumed it was that way in most other U.S.
> states.

It is. But since there are exceptions, the OP is best served
making himself familiar with whatever requirements there are in
-his- state.

> Apparently not? (or am I mis-reading something said earlier?)

I remember back when R-12, R-22 and R-134a were advertised in the
circulars in the Sunday paper, there were a few states listed as
"sales are restricted," Wisconsin and (IIRC) Florida were at
least two, and since Kalifornia never saw a repressive law it
didn't like, it is entirely possible that they also require a
license.
 >> Stay informed about: freon 

In article <aZCdnXy4tdXmIkjfRVn-iA.TakeThisOut@comcast.com>,
"maxpower" <damnnickname.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Don't waste your time on him, Its an ego thing that he has. Do like most
> people do here and that is to ignore his stupidity

Perhaps you'd like to point out specifically where Daniel is in
error.
 >> Stay informed about: freon 

On Thu, 14 Jul 2005, aarcuda69062 wrote:

> "maxpower" <damnnickname.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Don't waste your time on him, Its an ego thing that he has. Do like
> > most people do here and that is to ignore his stupidity

> Perhaps you'd like to point out specifically where Daniel is in error.

*grabs a bowl of popcorn and sits down to watch the Maxpower Parade of
Ignorance*
 >> Stay informed about: freon 

"aarcuda69062" <nonelson.TakeThisOut@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:nonelson-BAFE51.08133214072005@newsclstr01.news.prodigy.com...
> In article <aZCdnXy4tdXmIkjfRVn-iA.TakeThisOut@comcast.com>,
> "maxpower" <damnnickname.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Don't waste your time on him, Its an ego thing that he has. Do like most
> > people do here and that is to ignore his stupidity
>
> Perhaps you'd like to point out specifically where Daniel is in
> error.

I forgot what his date of birth is but that would be it
 >> Stay informed about: freon 

On Thu, 14 Jul 2005, Coasty wrote:

> > Perhaps you'd like to point out specifically where Daniel is in error.

> He was wrong in several areas, EPA however has approved Freeze12 as a
> replacement

I never *ever* disputed this.

> I hold a Masters HVAC license and Stern just really does not have any
> practical knowledge.

You have no idea how much practical knowledge I have.
 >> Stay informed about: freon 

"Daniel J. Stern" <dastern RemoveThis @127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.58.0507141720490.20169@alumni.engin.umich.edu...
>
> On Thu, 14 Jul 2005, Coasty wrote:
>
> > > Perhaps you'd like to point out specifically where Daniel is in error.
>
> > He was wrong in several areas, EPA however has approved Freeze12 as a
> > replacement
>
> I never *ever* disputed this.
>
> > I hold a Masters HVAC license and Stern just really does not have any
> > practical knowledge.
>
> You have no idea how much practical knowledge I have.

Not knowledge, its all ego.
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