Alfa engine for kit car

In article <pwyFe.806272$581.206229@fe05.news.easynews.com>,
Catman <catman.DeleteThis@rustcuore-sportivo.co.uk> wrote:

> Bret Ludwig wrote:
>
> > Is there an industrial, marine, or truck Alfa Romeo DOHC engine that
> > would look cool in a kit car we never saw in the US?
>
> Any alfa engine would look cool in a kit car.
> The classic DOHC is the four pot lump, available in 1.6, 1.8 and 2.0 L
> capacities.
> The flat four is pretty damn good in light cars as well.

Hard to get here in the States as Alfasuds were never sold here.
>
> The beauuuuutiful V6 is only SOHC (like the flat) but sounds utterly divine.
> Bit lazy in it's stock form IMHO though.

I agree. But the transaxle screws things up quite a bit. He could fit a
tranny from an Alfa-Six, as it was bolted onto the back of the engine,
but they weren't sold here either. Can't say that there aren't a number
of them here anyway, but they would be rare. Maybe he could buy one from
Australia (European/British exchange rate is prohibitive right now. I
can't even buy racing DVDs from England anymore because they end up
costing me $50-$60 each).

--
George Graves
------------------
A sports car makes the journey more fun than the destination.
 >> Stay informed about: Alfa engine for kit car 

George Graves wrote:

> In article <pwyFe.806272$581.206229@fe05.news.easynews.com>,
> Catman <catman.DeleteThis@rustcuore-sportivo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Bret Ludwig wrote:
>>
>> > Is there an industrial, marine, or truck Alfa Romeo DOHC engine that
>> > would look cool in a kit car we never saw in the US?
>>
>> Any alfa engine would look cool in a kit car.
>> The classic DOHC is the four pot lump, available in 1.6, 1.8 and 2.0 L
>> capacities.
>> The flat four is pretty damn good in light cars as well.
>
> Hard to get here in the States as Alfasuds were never sold here.

Good point. I could probably mail you one

>> The beauuuuutiful V6 is only SOHC (like the flat) but sounds utterly
>> divine. Bit lazy in it's stock form IMHO though.
>
> I agree. But the transaxle screws things up quite a bit. He could fit a
> tranny from an Alfa-Six, as it was bolted onto the back of the engine,
> but they weren't sold here either.

Why not just use the 'Milano' tranny?

> Can't say that there aren't a number
> of them here anyway, but they would be rare. Maybe he could buy one from
> Australia (European/British exchange rate is prohibitive right now. I
> can't even buy racing DVDs from England anymore because they end up
> costing me $50-$60 each).

ouch

--
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Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 75 TS 156 TS S2
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
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 >> Stay informed about: Alfa engine for kit car 

In article <cpFFe.602141$pI6.117696@fe06.news.easynews.com>,
Catman <catman.DeleteThis@rustcuore-sportivo.co.uk> wrote:

> George Graves wrote:
>
> > In article <pwyFe.806272$581.206229@fe05.news.easynews.com>,
> > Catman <catman.DeleteThis@rustcuore-sportivo.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> Bret Ludwig wrote:
> >>
> >> > Is there an industrial, marine, or truck Alfa Romeo DOHC engine that
> >> > would look cool in a kit car we never saw in the US?
> >>
> >> Any alfa engine would look cool in a kit car.
> >> The classic DOHC is the four pot lump, available in 1.6, 1.8 and 2.0 L
> >> capacities.
> >> The flat four is pretty damn good in light cars as well.
> >
> > Hard to get here in the States as Alfasuds were never sold here.
>
> Good point. I could probably mail you one
>
> >> The beauuuuutiful V6 is only SOHC (like the flat) but sounds utterly
> >> divine. Bit lazy in it's stock form IMHO though.
> >
> > I agree. But the transaxle screws things up quite a bit. He could fit a
> > tranny from an Alfa-Six, as it was bolted onto the back of the engine,
> > but they weren't sold here either.
>
> Why not just use the 'Milano' tranny?

Because a Milano tranny is part of the DeDion rear transaxle assembly
and is in unit with the clutch and the differential at the rear of the
car. He would need to use the long drive shaft and the giubos etc. If
the wheelbase of the kit car were different from that of the Milano, he
would have to either shorten or lengthen THAT drive shaft, They're hard
enough to balance without that. The beauty of the Alfa-Six is that it's
NOT an Alfetta. it has a normal transmission/clutch attached to the
engine. This would make it infinitely easier to fit to a kit car than
would be a transaxle design.

--
George Graves
------------------
A sports car makes the journey more fun than the destination.
 >> Stay informed about: Alfa engine for kit car 

George Graves wrote:

> In article <cpFFe.602141$pI6.117696@fe06.news.easynews.com>,
> Catman <catman RemoveThis @rustcuore-sportivo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> George Graves wrote:
>>
>> > In article <pwyFe.806272$581.206229@fe05.news.easynews.com>,
>> > Catman <catman RemoveThis @rustcuore-sportivo.co.uk> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Bret Ludwig wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Is there an industrial, marine, or truck Alfa Romeo DOHC engine
>> >> > that
>> >> > would look cool in a kit car we never saw in the US?
>> >>
>> >> Any alfa engine would look cool in a kit car.
>> >> The classic DOHC is the four pot lump, available in 1.6, 1.8 and 2.0 L
>> >> capacities.
>> >> The flat four is pretty damn good in light cars as well.
>> >
>> > Hard to get here in the States as Alfasuds were never sold here.
>>
>> Good point. I could probably mail you one
>>
>> >> The beauuuuutiful V6 is only SOHC (like the flat) but sounds utterly
>> >> divine. Bit lazy in it's stock form IMHO though.
>> >
>> > I agree. But the transaxle screws things up quite a bit. He could fit a
>> > tranny from an Alfa-Six, as it was bolted onto the back of the engine,
>> > but they weren't sold here either.
>>
>> Why not just use the 'Milano' tranny?
>
> Because a Milano tranny is part of the DeDion rear transaxle assembly
> and is in unit with the clutch and the differential at the rear of the
> car. He would need to use the long drive shaft and the giubos etc. If
> the wheelbase of the kit car were different from that of the Milano, he
> would have to either shorten or lengthen THAT drive shaft, They're hard
> enough to balance without that.

Can be done though. Seen it, on a trike apart from anything else

> The beauty of the Alfa-Six is that it's
> NOT an Alfetta. it has a normal transmission/clutch attached to the
> engine. This would make it infinitely easier to fit to a kit car than
> would be a transaxle design.

Fair point.

--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 75 TS 156 TS S2
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
 >> Stay informed about: Alfa engine for kit car 

"George Graves" <gmgravesnos RemoveThis @pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:gmgravesnos-F2005C.12433727072005@newssvr21-ext.news.prodigy.com...
> In article <cpFFe.602141$pI6.117696@fe06.news.easynews.com>,
> Catman <catman RemoveThis @rustcuore-sportivo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> George Graves wrote:
>>
>> > In article <pwyFe.806272$581.206229@fe05.news.easynews.com>,
>> > Catman <catman RemoveThis @rustcuore-sportivo.co.uk> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Bret Ludwig wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Is there an industrial, marine, or truck Alfa Romeo DOHC engine
>> >> > that
>> >> > would look cool in a kit car we never saw in the US?
>> >>
>> >> Any alfa engine would look cool in a kit car.
>> >> The classic DOHC is the four pot lump, available in 1.6, 1.8 and 2.0 L
>> >> capacities.
>> >> The flat four is pretty damn good in light cars as well.
>> >
>> > Hard to get here in the States as Alfasuds were never sold here.
>>
>> Good point. I could probably mail you one
>>
>> >> The beauuuuutiful V6 is only SOHC (like the flat) but sounds utterly
>> >> divine. Bit lazy in it's stock form IMHO though.
>> >
>> > I agree. But the transaxle screws things up quite a bit. He could fit a
>> > tranny from an Alfa-Six, as it was bolted onto the back of the engine,
>> > but they weren't sold here either.
>>
>> Why not just use the 'Milano' tranny?
>
> Because a Milano tranny is part of the DeDion rear transaxle assembly
> and is in unit with the clutch and the differential at the rear of the
> car. He would need to use the long drive shaft and the giubos etc. If
> the wheelbase of the kit car were different from that of the Milano, he
> would have to either shorten or lengthen THAT drive shaft, They're hard
> enough to balance without that. The beauty of the Alfa-Six is that it's
> NOT an Alfetta. it has a normal transmission/clutch attached to the
> engine. This would make it infinitely easier to fit to a kit car than
> would be a transaxle design.
>

I saw an Alfa Six once.

ss.
 >> Stay informed about: Alfa engine for kit car 

Synapse Syndrome wrote:

> "George Graves" <gmgravesnos.DeleteThis@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> news:gmgravesnos-F2005C.12433727072005@newssvr21-ext.news.prodigy.com...
>> In article <cpFFe.602141$pI6.117696@fe06.news.easynews.com>,
>> Catman <catman.DeleteThis@rustcuore-sportivo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> George Graves wrote:
>>>
>>> > In article <pwyFe.806272$581.206229@fe05.news.easynews.com>,
>>> > Catman <catman.DeleteThis@rustcuore-sportivo.co.uk> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Bret Ludwig wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> > Is there an industrial, marine, or truck Alfa Romeo DOHC engine
>>> >> > that
>>> >> > would look cool in a kit car we never saw in the US?
>>> >>
>>> >> Any alfa engine would look cool in a kit car.
>>> >> The classic DOHC is the four pot lump, available in 1.6, 1.8 and 2.0
>>> >> L capacities.
>>> >> The flat four is pretty damn good in light cars as well.
>>> >
>>> > Hard to get here in the States as Alfasuds were never sold here.
>>>
>>> Good point. I could probably mail you one
>>>
>>> >> The beauuuuutiful V6 is only SOHC (like the flat) but sounds utterly
>>> >> divine. Bit lazy in it's stock form IMHO though.
>>> >
>>> > I agree. But the transaxle screws things up quite a bit. He could fit
>>> > a tranny from an Alfa-Six, as it was bolted onto the back of the
>>> > engine, but they weren't sold here either.
>>>
>>> Why not just use the 'Milano' tranny?
>>
>> Because a Milano tranny is part of the DeDion rear transaxle assembly
>> and is in unit with the clutch and the differential at the rear of the
>> car. He would need to use the long drive shaft and the giubos etc. If
>> the wheelbase of the kit car were different from that of the Milano, he
>> would have to either shorten or lengthen THAT drive shaft, They're hard
>> enough to balance without that. The beauty of the Alfa-Six is that it's
>> NOT an Alfetta. it has a normal transmission/clutch attached to the
>> engine. This would make it infinitely easier to fit to a kit car than
>> would be a transaxle design.
>>
>
> I saw an Alfa Six once.

There was at least one at NAD this year IIRC
--
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Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 75 TS 156 TS S2
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
 >> Stay informed about: Alfa engine for kit car 

What's so beautiful about the V6? We had a few of them here and as I
recall it was said to be troublesome.
 >> Stay informed about: Alfa engine for kit car 

In article <1122593635.336495.239050.TakeThisOut@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"Bret Ludwig" <bretldwig.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:

> What's so beautiful about the V6? We had a few of them here and as I
> recall it was said to be troublesome.

You recall wrong. The engine is magnificent. It's virtually
bullet-proof, is capable of producing lots of power, sounds like a
Ferrari, and revs freely. Whether the 12 or the 24 valve versions, 2.5
3.0 or 3.2 liters, It's truly one of the world's greatest engines.

--
George Graves
------------------
A sports car makes the journey more fun than the destination.
 >> Stay informed about: Alfa engine for kit car 

George Graves wrote:

> In article <1122593635.336495.239050 RemoveThis @g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> "Bret Ludwig" <bretldwig RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> What's so beautiful about the V6? We had a few of them here and as I
>> recall it was said to be troublesome.
>
> You recall wrong. The engine is magnificent. It's virtually
> bullet-proof, is capable of producing lots of power, sounds like a
> Ferrari, and revs freely. Whether the 12 or the 24 valve versions, 2.5
> 3.0 or 3.2 liters, It's truly one of the world's greatest engines.
>
What he said, really

Although I find it a little slower revving in stock form than I'd like. And
there *is* that small issue with the cam belt tensioner.
--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 75 TS 156 TS S2
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
 >> Stay informed about: Alfa engine for kit car 

In article <qvjGe.669045$ub.113727@fe07.news.easynews.com>,
Catman <catman.TakeThisOut@rustcuore-sportivo.co.uk> wrote:

> George Graves wrote:
>
> > In article <1122593635.336495.239050.TakeThisOut@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> > "Bret Ludwig" <bretldwig.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> What's so beautiful about the V6? We had a few of them here and as I
> >> recall it was said to be troublesome.
> >
> > You recall wrong. The engine is magnificent. It's virtually
> > bullet-proof, is capable of producing lots of power, sounds like a
> > Ferrari, and revs freely. Whether the 12 or the 24 valve versions, 2.5
> > 3.0 or 3.2 liters, It's truly one of the world's greatest engines.
> >
> What he said, really
>
> Although I find it a little slower revving in stock form than I'd like. And
> there *is* that small issue with the cam belt tensioner.

Well, yes, but the throttle response issue has two causes. Stock, the
engine doesn't breath very well, and secondly (at least on the Alfetta
cars [GTV-6 and 75]) the heavy drive shaft makes for extra mass that
must be accelerated since it ALWAYS turns with the engine. You can
really improve the throttle response by changing the intake system in
front of the throttle-body. Porting and relieving helps too as do
high-lift cams. I don't really worry about the belt tensioner. I change
it when I change the belt, and I watch it carefully. Here in the USA, we
can get a replacement belt from Goodyear that's better than the Italian
OEM belt. the teeth seem harder and it doesn't stretch as much. I
suspect that the Italian belt is really the main reason for the
tensioner woes (I'm assuming the mechanical tensioner as most everybody
has replaced the hydraulic one by this time).

--
George Graves
------------------
A sports car makes the journey more fun than the destination.
 >> Stay informed about: Alfa engine for kit car 

I found a pair of high lift cams , tubular manifolds carefully fitted and
having Avon Racing ( UK - sorry ) modify the ECU along with a K&N filter
really helps . Revs ( believe it or not ) to 7000 although I`ve got the
adjustable limiter set at 6.5 most of the time .
Next step is a mod to the air flow meter , but it`s somebody elses brainwave
so I`d best keep it to myself .Nothing to do with ebay though !
Phil
"George Graves" <gmgravesnos RemoveThis @pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:gmgravesnos-4EED8C.02025029072005@newssvr13-ext.news.prodigy.com...
> In article <qvjGe.669045$ub.113727@fe07.news.easynews.com>,
> Catman <catman RemoveThis @rustcuore-sportivo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> George Graves wrote:
>>
>> > In article <1122593635.336495.239050 RemoveThis @g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
>> > "Bret Ludwig" <bretldwig RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> What's so beautiful about the V6? We had a few of them here and as I
>> >> recall it was said to be troublesome.
>> >
>> > You recall wrong. The engine is magnificent. It's virtually
>> > bullet-proof, is capable of producing lots of power, sounds like a
>> > Ferrari, and revs freely. Whether the 12 or the 24 valve versions, 2.5
>> > 3.0 or 3.2 liters, It's truly one of the world's greatest engines.
>> >
>> What he said, really
>>
>> Although I find it a little slower revving in stock form than I'd like.
>> And
>> there *is* that small issue with the cam belt tensioner.
>
> Well, yes, but the throttle response issue has two causes. Stock, the
> engine doesn't breath very well, and secondly (at least on the Alfetta
> cars [GTV-6 and 75]) the heavy drive shaft makes for extra mass that
> must be accelerated since it ALWAYS turns with the engine. You can
> really improve the throttle response by changing the intake system in
> front of the throttle-body. Porting and relieving helps too as do
> high-lift cams. I don't really worry about the belt tensioner. I change
> it when I change the belt, and I watch it carefully. Here in the USA, we
> can get a replacement belt from Goodyear that's better than the Italian
> OEM belt. the teeth seem harder and it doesn't stretch as much. I
> suspect that the Italian belt is really the main reason for the
> tensioner woes (I'm assuming the mechanical tensioner as most everybody
> has replaced the hydraulic one by this time).
>
> --
> George Graves
> ------------------
> A sports car makes the journey more fun than the destination.
>
 >> Stay informed about: Alfa engine for kit car 

George Graves wrote:

> In article <qvjGe.669045$ub.113727@fe07.news.easynews.com>,
> Catman <catman RemoveThis @rustcuore-sportivo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> George Graves wrote:
>>
>> > In article <1122593635.336495.239050 RemoveThis @g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
>> > "Bret Ludwig" <bretldwig RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> What's so beautiful about the V6? We had a few of them here and as I
>> >> recall it was said to be troublesome.
>> >
>> > You recall wrong. The engine is magnificent. It's virtually
>> > bullet-proof, is capable of producing lots of power, sounds like a
>> > Ferrari, and revs freely. Whether the 12 or the 24 valve versions, 2.5
>> > 3.0 or 3.2 liters, It's truly one of the world's greatest engines.
>> >
>> What he said, really
>>
>> Although I find it a little slower revving in stock form than I'd like.
>> And there *is* that small issue with the cam belt tensioner.
>
> Well, yes, but the throttle response issue has two causes. Stock, the
> engine doesn't breath very well, and secondly (at least on the Alfetta
> cars [GTV-6 and 75]) the heavy drive shaft makes for extra mass that
> must be accelerated since it ALWAYS turns with the engine. You can
> really improve the throttle response by changing the intake system in
> front of the throttle-body. Porting and relieving helps too as do
> high-lift cams.

You're not wrong there. Hence my reference to 'stock; form. OTOH the
'laziness' can be very pleasant as well.

> I don't really worry about the belt tensioner. I change
> it when I change the belt, and I watch it carefully. Here in the USA, we
> can get a replacement belt from Goodyear that's better than the Italian
> OEM belt. the teeth seem harder and it doesn't stretch as much. I
> suspect that the Italian belt is really the main reason for the
> tensioner woes (I'm assuming the mechanical tensioner as most everybody
> has replaced the hydraulic one by this time).

I was thinking of the original tensioner. The mechanical ones are much
preferable.
--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 75 TS 156 TS S2
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
 >> Stay informed about: Alfa engine for kit car 

In article <NHnGe.735540$iM6.76515@fe01.news.easynews.com>,
Catman <catman DeleteThis @rustcuore-sportivo.co.uk> wrote:

> George Graves wrote:
>
> > In article <qvjGe.669045$ub.113727@fe07.news.easynews.com>,
> > Catman <catman DeleteThis @rustcuore-sportivo.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> George Graves wrote:
> >>
> >> > In article <1122593635.336495.239050 DeleteThis @g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> >> > "Bret Ludwig" <bretldwig DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> What's so beautiful about the V6? We had a few of them here and as I
> >> >> recall it was said to be troublesome.
> >> >
> >> > You recall wrong. The engine is magnificent. It's virtually
> >> > bullet-proof, is capable of producing lots of power, sounds like a
> >> > Ferrari, and revs freely. Whether the 12 or the 24 valve versions, 2.5
> >> > 3.0 or 3.2 liters, It's truly one of the world's greatest engines.
> >> >
> >> What he said, really
> >>
> >> Although I find it a little slower revving in stock form than I'd like.
> >> And there *is* that small issue with the cam belt tensioner.
> >
> > Well, yes, but the throttle response issue has two causes. Stock, the
> > engine doesn't breath very well, and secondly (at least on the Alfetta
> > cars [GTV-6 and 75]) the heavy drive shaft makes for extra mass that
> > must be accelerated since it ALWAYS turns with the engine. You can
> > really improve the throttle response by changing the intake system in
> > front of the throttle-body. Porting and relieving helps too as do
> > high-lift cams.
>
> You're not wrong there. Hence my reference to 'stock; form. OTOH the
> 'laziness' can be very pleasant as well.
>
> > I don't really worry about the belt tensioner. I change
> > it when I change the belt, and I watch it carefully. Here in the USA, we
> > can get a replacement belt from Goodyear that's better than the Italian
> > OEM belt. the teeth seem harder and it doesn't stretch as much. I
> > suspect that the Italian belt is really the main reason for the
> > tensioner woes (I'm assuming the mechanical tensioner as most everybody
> > has replaced the hydraulic one by this time).
>
> I was thinking of the original tensioner. The mechanical ones are much
> preferable.

I have not seen an Alfetta V-6 in the last 15 years that still had the
original hydraulic tensioner fitted. Obviously, there have to be some
still around, but they must be as rare as a sober Irishman on Darby day!

--
George Graves
------------------
A sports car makes the journey more fun than the destination.
 >> Stay informed about: Alfa engine for kit car