RWD BMW's

On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 12:52:49 -0500, XXX wrote:

 > Hello,
 > I would like to know how is the handling in slippery/icy conditions on
 > the pavement for BMW's which are RWD except the 4WD ones. I know BMW is
 > equipped with EPS, better traction control etc but how does that change a
 > RWD car on a slippery condition which tends to give more spin than a FWD
 > car?
 >
 > Thanks.


My M3 with dunlop wintersport M3s on it does pretty well. My moms 540iT
with blizzak ws-50s on it does much better. I'm sure its not all the
tire, but also the manual vs. automatic, weight, and DSC sensitivity
differences.

With DSC on, I can't spin that car around a corner, its great. Better
than our suvs with 4wd and all season tires.

-Aaron<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Aaron Solochek wrote in message ...
 > On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 12:52:49 -0500, XXX wrote:
 >
  > > Hello,
  > > I would like to know how is the handling in slippery/icy conditions on
  > > the pavement for BMW's which are RWD except the 4WD ones. I know BMW is
  > > equipped with EPS, better traction control etc but how does that change a
  > > RWD car on a slippery condition which tends to give more spin than a FWD
  > > car?
  > >
  > > Thanks.
 >
 >
 > My M3 with dunlop wintersport M3s on it does pretty well. My moms 540iT
 > with blizzak ws-50s on it does much better. I'm sure its not all the
 > tire, but also the manual vs. automatic, weight, and DSC sensitivity
 > differences.
 >
 > With DSC on, I can't spin that car around a corner, its great. Better
 > than our suvs with 4wd and all season tires.
 >
 > -Aaron


IMO, it's mainly the tires.

WS-50s are true SNOW TIRES. Dunlop Wintersport M3s are performance WINTER tires.


Michael<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Which BMW are you talking about?

What is 'EPS'?


"XXX" wrote in message

 > Hello,
 > I would like to know how is the handling in slippery/icy conditions on
 > the pavement for BMW's which are RWD except the 4WD ones. I know BMW is
 > equipped with EPS, better traction control etc but how does that change a
 > RWD car on a slippery condition which tends to give more spin than a FWD
 > car?
 >
 > Thanks.
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: RWD BMW's 

On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 18:32:34 -0000, "Zoe" wrote:

 >Which BMW are you talking about?
 >
 >What is 'EPS'?
 >
 >


  >> Hello,
  >> I would like to know how is the handling in slippery/icy conditions on
  >> the pavement for BMW's which are RWD except the 4WD ones. I know BMW is
  >> equipped with EPS, better traction control etc but how does that change a
  >> RWD car on a slippery condition which tends to give more spin than a FWD
  >> car?
  >>
  >> Thanks.
  >>
  >>
 >

i think the op was referring to dsc.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: RWD BMW's 

I live in (icy) Scandinavia and have been driving FWD for 15+ years - last
year I got my first E46 BMW and I musy say that it handles much better than
expected - havent had a problem in Snowy/Icy conditions with RWD my E46 - i
do have winter tyres on the Car (so did my FWD car``s) So I would say there
is no problem with RWD and snow_/ice at least not when the RWD is made so
well as it is on a BMW
"XXX" skrev i en meddelelse

 > Hello,
 > I would like to know how is the handling in slippery/icy conditions on
 > the pavement for BMW's which are RWD except the 4WD ones. I know BMW is
 > equipped with EPS, better traction control etc but how does that change a
 > RWD car on a slippery condition which tends to give more spin than a FWD
 > car?
 >
 > Thanks.
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: RWD BMW's 

The BMW has a 50/50 weight distribution, so the rear wheels dont tend to
lose grip like other RWD cars you may have had experience with. FWD cars
have about 80% of the cars weight on the front driving wheels, so
compared to non BMW RWD cars, they have an advantage.

However, RWD BMW style is much better overall, - dry, wet and snow. Good
winter tires should be used whether the car is FWD or RWD, = these tires
make a very big difference.

WB
 >> Stay informed about: RWD BMW's 

On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 20:57:52 +0100, "ENN" wrote:

 >I live in (icy) Scandinavia and have been driving FWD for 15+ years - last
 >year I got my first E46 BMW and I musy say that it handles much better than
 >expected - havent had a problem in Snowy/Icy conditions with RWD my E46 - i
 >do have winter tyres on the Car (so did my FWD car``s) So I would say there
 >is no problem with RWD and snow_/ice at least not when the RWD is made so
 >well as it is on a BMW


And with DSC, - - -where ever you point the frontwheels - - - the car
goes. It's amazing what electrons can do ! ! !

I am sure, that should I be able to force it to loose contact with the
road, whatever I am hitting, I will hit nose on.

Niels<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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That's not true. Not all bmw's have a 50/50 weight distribution.

also FWD cars do not have 80% of weight over the front wheels.... more like
60/40.

I also beg to differ as to whether RWd is better than front wheel drive or all
wheel drive - when driven by a 'novice.' Especially on BMW models without
traction control. As an expert driver I can handle it, but for the untrained
or uncaring - front wheel / all wheel drive is definitely the route to go.

Un Savant,

Maximillion

 >The BMW has a 50/50 weight distribution, so the rear wheels dont tend to
 >lose grip like other RWD cars you may have had experience with. FWD cars
 >have about 80% of the cars weight on the front driving wheels, so
 >compared to non BMW RWD cars, they have an advantage.
 >
 >However, RWD BMW style is much better overall, - dry, wet and snow. Good
 >winter tires should be used whether the car is FWD or RWD, = these tires
 >make a very big difference.
 >
 >WB
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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On 10 Jan 2004 22:43:49 GMT, caruthers2004 RemoveThis @aol.com (Caruthers2004)
wrote:

 >As an expert driver I can handle it, but for the untrained
 >or uncaring - front wheel / all wheel drive is definitely the route to go.

Well that's just it. Becoming proficient in snow is the best "upgrade"
for winter driving. I truly wish the untrained and the uncaring would
brush up on their skills so we wouldn't have to read of all of these
tragedies like the mother-of-nine children who was killed here in
Rochester, NY. Senseless to go out in inclement weather just hoping
nothing bad happens. My rear wheel drive BMW is a complete blast to
drive in horrible snow with a limited-slip differential that kicks the
back end out with just a mash on the throttle. Several hours are spent
throwing that car around an empty parking lot in a snow storm each
winter to train my reflexes and learn how the car responds. It is a
beautiful snow driver.
Colin<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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WB wrote:

 > However, RWD BMW style is much better overall, - dry, wet and snow. Good
 > winter tires should be used whether the car is FWD or RWD, = these tires
 > make a very big difference.

I agree wholeheartedly. With good snow tires, RWD BMWs can be just as
effective as, if not more effective than, the comparable FWD cars. I drove
my old 1996 328is w/ Nokian Hakkapeliitta's in the snow without any
problems.

Dai

--
2004 M3 Coupe
// Oxford Green / Black Leather
// Power Seats w/ Adjustable Width/Lumbar Support
// Bi-Xenon Headlights
// H/K Stereo Upgrade<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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I have 2 set``s of winter tyres a set of Continental TS790 whitch are wery
good Wintrertyres - and when we go for weekends/holydays to the
Swedish/Norwegian mountains i put my Gislavad Nordfrost (W spikes) on - it
seems to be a good idea to have 2 sets one set for heawy winter driving and
one set for "normal" winter driving. The Gislavad Nord Frost are simply some
of the best winter tyres made - but they make noise (spikes) and they are
not constructed for 100 + kmH (they get unstable at 140+ kmh) .


"ENN" skrev i en meddelelse

 > I live in (icy) Scandinavia and have been driving FWD for 15+ years - last
 > year I got my first E46 BMW and I musy say that it handles much better
than
 > expected - havent had a problem in Snowy/Icy conditions with RWD my E46 -
i
 > do have winter tyres on the Car (so did my FWD car``s) So I would say
there
 > is no problem with RWD and snow_/ice at least not when the RWD is made so
 > well as it is on a BMW


  > > Hello,
  > > I would like to know how is the handling in slippery/icy conditions
on
  > > the pavement for BMW's which are RWD except the 4WD ones. I know BMW is
  > > equipped with EPS, better traction control etc but how does that change
a
  > > RWD car on a slippery condition which tends to give more spin than a FWD
  > > car?
  > >
  > > Thanks.
  > >
  > >
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: RWD BMW's 

Fallacy: FWD is "better" in slippery conditions.

Things are more complicated than that. FWD with marginal tires gives
you a better chance of getting up an incline than RWD with marginal
tires (especially if you have the smarts to back up the incline with
the FWD car). Trying to recover from a skid in the same, nose-heavy
FWD car will be a challenge, whatever the tires. Etc.

Four good blizzaks make any modern BMW a fine winter car.

XXX wrote:
 > Hello,
 > I would like to know how is the handling in slippery/icy conditions on
 > the pavement for BMW's which are RWD except the 4WD ones. I know BMW is
 > equipped with EPS, better traction control etc but how does that change a
 > RWD car on a slippery condition which tends to give more spin than a FWD
 > car?
 >
 > Thanks.
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: RWD BMW's 

"Colin" wrote in message


 > wrote:
 >
  > >As an expert driver I can handle it, but for the untrained
  > >or uncaring - front wheel / all wheel drive is definitely the route to
go.
 >
 > Well that's just it. Becoming proficient in snow is the best "upgrade"
 > for winter driving. I truly wish the untrained and the uncaring would
 > brush up on their skills so we wouldn't have to read of all of these
 > tragedies like the mother-of-nine children who was killed here in
 > Rochester, NY. Senseless to go out in inclement weather just hoping
 > nothing bad happens. My rear wheel drive BMW is a complete blast to
 > drive in horrible snow with a limited-slip differential that kicks the
 > back end out with just a mash on the throttle. Several hours are spent
 > throwing that car around an empty parking lot in a snow storm each
 > winter to train my reflexes and learn how the car responds. It is a
 > beautiful snow driver.
 > Colin

The car and the tires matter a lot.

The driver matters more.

I drive a 325iX daily with proper snows. It's a cat on Velcro all winter,
very confidence inspiring.

It was in the body shop after being rear-ended in March and I had a rental.
We had a freak blizzard, where the police were telling people to stay home
but I had to make a 150km commute for an important meeting. The all season
tires on the Cavalier were rather worn for the 34,000 km it had on it. So
off I went. I made decent time, arrived on time for the meeting, and made
it there and back safe and sound. I passed 21 cars in ditches on the way
there and back -- yes, I kept count. Except for one group of 3, they were
all singletons. Everything from AWD Audis and SUVs, to FWD sedans,
compacts, RWD prestige cars, Minivans, you name it.

There's no way that car or tires gave me any advantage over any of those
poeople. It's grip was pathetic, responses and capabilites meager. No ABS,
no traction control. I would have rather had a RWD Bimmer with proper
snows by a longshot. And lord, did I wish for my iX. But I made it there
without drama.

The driver matters more than the rest.

Your parking lot notation is important. I do this with every car I drive,
every year. It's critical. Those that don't are going to get their first
experience of the poor weather limits of their car in some unexpected
situation on a public road where other's lives hang in the balance.

-Russ.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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