Diesel vs. gasoline??

Mark Levitski wrote:
 > Know nothing of cars (electrical person) - used public transportation all my
 > life.
 >
 > Why is that 95% of passenger cars in the US are gasoline, yet diesel used in
 > much of Europe? I read somewhere diesel is more efficient, plus unlike gas
 > engine even UNMODIFIED diesel unit can run on "biofuels" (filtered cooking,
 > etc. natural oils), so why diesel not dominating the market? I thought it's
 > even cheaper?
 >
Everything I am about to say is strictly my opinion. I think one of the
reasons that diesels are more popular in Europe is that the price of
fuel in Europe is roughly twice, or more, of what we pay here. There
are other regional reasons, like cheaper taxes in some EU countries for
diesels compared to gasoline engines.

There is also a perception problem here. Back in the seventies, GM
unleashed a diesel that was essentially a converted small block Chevy
motor, and its reliability record was pretty bad.

When you take in to consideration the savings in fuel mileage, the
higher cost of a diesel compared to gas motor for most vehicles where
both motors are available, and the difference in fuel costs here in the
US, I would imagine you would have to drive a diesel car for many years
before the cost benefit ratio would tilt toward the diesel. So the
economics are not there, particularly when you also consider the smell
and clatter of a diesel.

I think the price per gallon of gasoline will have to get above $3, and
stay there permanently, before diesel popularity will become
significant. And that assumes the manufacturers can solve the emissions
problems.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Diesel vs. gasoline?? 

Thanks, i got several responses on rec.autos.tech and one mentioned GM
experiement that went wrong (and poisoned US diesel market forever) i.e.
something you mentioned also; while another categorically denied GM's the
reason and blaming diesel slow acceleration/start/noise and pollution (which
is a strong factor to me, being an evironmentalist who doesnt want to die
from cancer) as the reason of low acceptance here in the U.S.

My opinion is almost formed: I hate the pollution part, but I am not
interested in diesel for itself but rather to use cooking oil/biofuels that
only run in diesel engines, pollution from burning cooking oil is no worse
than from gasoline I guess - might be even cleaner. So if I get extra money
probably will buy used diesel unit and start experimenting with cooking oil.
The idea of driving on used cooking oil, spelling like Frnech fries and
paying less $ is crazy, I must try it
 >> Stay informed about: Diesel vs. gasoline?? 

Thanks for another input/response. Wanted to try used diesel if I get extra
money, to experiement with cooking oil as fuel - myself being a technology
freak (and professional engineer, but not autos), so you say maintenance is
costly... i will probably abandon this diesel project.

My primary vehicle is 2004 Nissan Sentra (thats why posted here), amazing
feul efficiency - probably no need to spend time experimenting with cooking
oils if you say diesel is such a pain. What I did in Sentra is
starightforward: reduced weight, using drastic measures most people wouldn't
consider, even spare tire is removed to reduce weight (I am covered by
2-year Nissan Security+/roadside assistance accross USA/Canada and even
Alaska), I removed such tiny things as passenger's sunvisor, jack, ONE WHOLE
SEAT (rear/passenger side), mats (use 100% cotton thick bath towel), this is
crazy but I get amazing mileage so probably this whole diesel project needs
to be stopped unless I find someone offering VW or Volvo diesel for $500
heheh
 >> Stay informed about: Diesel vs. gasoline?? 

smelling, not spelling
 >> Stay informed about: Diesel vs. gasoline?? 

Mark Levitski wrote:

 >So if I get extra
 > money probably will buy used diesel unit and start experimenting with
 > cooking oil. The idea of driving on used cooking oil, smelling like French
 > fries and paying less $ is crazy, I must try it


It's not as simple as pouring cooking oil in the tank. Do some searches on
biodiesel...

--

Steve

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.atlantaracing.com" target="_blank">http://www.atlantaracing.com</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Diesel vs. gasoline?? 

"Mark Levitski" <MetalBladeSPAMNOMORE.RemoveThis@SPAMNOMOREprodigy.net> wrote in
message news:mOAae.3369$L03.2617@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
 > Thanks for another input/response. Wanted to try used diesel if I get
 > extra money, to experiement with cooking oil as fuel - myself being a
 > technology freak (and professional engineer, but not autos), so you say
 > maintenance is costly... i will probably abandon this diesel project.
 >
 > My primary vehicle is 2004 Nissan Sentra (thats why posted here), amazing
 > feul efficiency - probably no need to spend time experimenting with
 > cooking oils if you say diesel is such a pain. What I did in Sentra is
 > starightforward: reduced weight, using drastic measures most people
 > wouldn't consider, even spare tire is removed to reduce weight (I am
 > covered by 2-year Nissan Security+/roadside assistance accross USA/Canada
 > and even Alaska), I removed such tiny things as passenger's sunvisor,
 > jack, ONE WHOLE SEAT (rear/passenger side), mats (use 100% cotton thick
 > bath towel), this is crazy but I get amazing mileage so probably this
 > whole diesel project needs to be stopped unless I find someone offering VW
 > or Volvo diesel for $500 heheh
 >
 >
 >
Mark
If you have a good source of used cooking oil that is changed regurlarly and
isnt contaminated with too much other fats or water, then get yourself a
diesel. Over her in England there are commercial companies that refine the
cooking oil and sell it as biodiesel. The exhaust from a biodiesel car is
cleaner than that of a normal diesel and has far less toxins, the noise of
the engine is reduced and so on. I have used pure vegetable oil in my tank
as it is cheaper for a litre of veg oil from the supermarket than it is for
a litre of diesel from the pump !! (49p as opposed to 89p) Another factor is
the matter of the diesel engine, it is a much stronger built engine than a
petrol and will last a lot longer if looked after, giving you more time to
make lots of saving with all the cheap miles.
Anyway I could go on for ever but here are a couple of sites for you to look
at and make your mind up from there.
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.distributiondrive.com/products%20biodiesel.html" target="_blank">http://www.distributiondrive.com/products%20biodiesel.html</a>

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html" target="_blank">http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html</a>

Brian<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Diesel vs. gasoline?? 

"Mark Levitski" <MetalBladeSPAMNOMORE DeleteThis @SPAMNOMOREprodigy.net> wrote in
message news:mOAae.3369$L03.2617@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
 > Thanks for another input/response. Wanted to try used diesel if I get
 > extra money, to experiement with cooking oil as fuel - myself being a
 > technology freak (and professional engineer, but not autos), so you say
 > maintenance is costly... i will probably abandon this diesel project.
 >
 > My primary vehicle is 2004 Nissan Sentra (thats why posted here), amazing
 > feul efficiency - probably no need to spend time experimenting with
 > cooking oils if you say diesel is such a pain. What I did in Sentra is
 > starightforward: reduced weight, using drastic measures most people
 > wouldn't consider, even spare tire is removed to reduce weight (I am
 > covered by 2-year Nissan Security+/roadside assistance accross USA/Canada
 > and even Alaska), I removed such tiny things as passenger's sunvisor,
 > jack, ONE WHOLE SEAT (rear/passenger side), mats (use 100% cotton thick
 > bath towel), this is crazy but I get amazing mileage so probably this
 > whole diesel project needs to be stopped unless I find someone offering VW
 > or Volvo diesel for $500 heheh
 >

Hi Mark,

Here in England I drive a Nissan Primera 2.2 diesel turbo. The performance
is fine, it just doesn't have the same rush of acceleration from rest that
you can get by revving a petrol engine really hard. The main reason I bought
it is fuel economy, fuel is so expensive over here, it's over 4UKP per
gallon. Diesel is slightly dearer than petrol but I get about 52mpg compared
to a petrol engine in the same type of car would give about 35-40mpg.
What mpg are you acheiving in your stripped down Sentra?<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Diesel vs. gasoline?? 

do some research on diesel pollution vs. gas pollution, I believe gas
engines for same engine displacement has less overall pollutants harmful to
ozone. The black soot is a thing of the old diesels. For the home consumer
and most over the road trucks you don't have to worry much about what fuel
to pump, they have it already mixed for the season at the pump. Diesels
make less horse power but more torque than equal sized gas motors. get on
average better fuel mileage. And go a little longer before big maintenance
but a little more costly. in Europe gas is double the price of diesel. the
current diesel cars in the version won't run on the diesel we have here
because it is not refined well enough here and too much sulfur content but
that should change soon. Ford has to truck US diesel into Mexico for its
diesels because their diesel is even worse.
"Mark Levitski" <MetalBladeSPAMNOMORE.DeleteThis@SPAMNOMOREprodigy.net> wrote in
message news:mOAae.3369$L03.2617@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
 > Thanks for another input/response. Wanted to try used diesel if I get
 > extra money, to experiement with cooking oil as fuel - myself being a
 > technology freak (and professional engineer, but not autos), so you say
 > maintenance is costly... i will probably abandon this diesel project.
 >
 > My primary vehicle is 2004 Nissan Sentra (thats why posted here), amazing
 > feul efficiency - probably no need to spend time experimenting with
 > cooking oils if you say diesel is such a pain. What I did in Sentra is
 > starightforward: reduced weight, using drastic measures most people
 > wouldn't consider, even spare tire is removed to reduce weight (I am
 > covered by 2-year Nissan Security+/roadside assistance accross USA/Canada
 > and even Alaska), I removed such tiny things as passenger's sunvisor,
 > jack, ONE WHOLE SEAT (rear/passenger side), mats (use 100% cotton thick
 > bath towel), this is crazy but I get amazing mileage so probably this
 > whole diesel project needs to be stopped unless I find someone offering VW
 > or Volvo diesel for $500 heheh
 >
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Diesel vs. gasoline?? 

I did and have two excellend PDF's (files) on it, also best book on it. SO
I know it's not easy to start but if you own a house, a vehicle you'd not
mind to destroy - I am a technology freak and would like to play with this
notion of running on used cooking oil!!

Except one problem: in the States gasoline is still such a bargain vs.
Europe and cooking oil is a bit pricey, that any financial gain seems
doubtful, the purpose here would be not as much dollars as cutting pollution
to zero. I suspect some of the highest cancer rates on Long Island, NJ, etc
is caused by everybody driving. I live in NYC, you'd think more poolution -
but suprisingly NO, our people have better health, it's a paradox but now I
think because everyone riding subways and public transportaion not inhaling
nasty toxic fumes.
 >> Stay informed about: Diesel vs. gasoline?? 

I can approach 42mpg on a highway (and good driving style), city would be
33-35. The nominal specification posted on "2004 Nissan Sentra" was 29
city/35highway (2005 model I saw, same city but 34 highway) which is always
inflated. Don't know about Europe, but here in the States it's a Fedral
requirement to post mileage on window sticker of all new cars (for sale) but
the real figure is always a few miles less as manufacturers hype their
figures, e.g. using best gas/best driving style/light load, etc. while in
real world mileage is always less.

Also did I mention replacing standard/stock steel wheels (rims) with light
but very strong Aluminum alloy? This reduces unsprung weight - better
acceleration/breaking hence fuel efrfciency, of course a minor improvement
but every minor thing counts. For some reason you Europeans makes best and
probably all alloys I ever seen, mine are British/German? - TSW wheels,
Europe's highest TUV rating for structural integrity and still lighter than
steel.

My boss is flying to his motherland again this week - Croatia, and always
gets amazed at euro gas prices, mind boggling. I'd rather bicycle.
 >> Stay informed about: Diesel vs. gasoline?? 

Electro wrote:
 > Mark
 > If you have a good source of used cooking oil that is changed regurlarly and
 > isnt contaminated with too much other fats or water, then get yourself a
 > diesel. Over her in England there are commercial companies that refine the
 > cooking oil and sell it as biodiesel. The exhaust from a biodiesel car is
 > cleaner than that of a normal diesel and has far less toxins, the noise of
 > the engine is reduced and so on. I have used pure vegetable oil in my tank
 > as it is cheaper for a litre of veg oil from the supermarket than it is for
 > a litre of diesel from the pump !!

<snip>

Don't let the taxman hear you. It's illegal to recycle used cooking oil
as road fuel - unless you pay the tax that makes ordinary diesel so
expensive.

Andy<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Diesel vs. gasoline?? 

S W wrote:
 >it is fuel economy, fuel is so expensive over here, it's over 4UKP per
 >
Isn't that something like $6.40 US?<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Diesel vs. gasoline?? 

I am getting 38 mpg in my 2005 sentra 1.8, nothing removed or modified but I
do mostly highway driving, 100 miles a day. I have 3500 miles on it and or
at 5000 I am changing over to synthetic oil Mobil 1 5w30 hopefully that may
buy me another mpg. My biggest bitch is the location of the oil filter and
the gouging that Nissan does when you try to buy a shop manual $300- that is
criminal !


"Mark Levitski" <MetalBladeSPAMNOMORE.RemoveThis@SPAMNOMOREprodigy.net> wrote in
message news:FKOae.50$Ne7.43@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
 >I can approach 42mpg on a highway (and good driving style), city would be
 >33-35. The nominal specification posted on "2004 Nissan Sentra" was 29
 >city/35highway (2005 model I saw, same city but 34 highway) which is always
 >inflated. Don't know about Europe, but here in the States it's a Fedral
 >requirement to post mileage on window sticker of all new cars (for sale)
 >but the real figure is always a few miles less as manufacturers hype their
 >figures, e.g. using best gas/best driving style/light load, etc. while in
 >real world mileage is always less.
 >
 > Also did I mention replacing standard/stock steel wheels (rims) with light
 > but very strong Aluminum alloy? This reduces unsprung weight - better
 > acceleration/breaking hence fuel efrfciency, of course a minor improvement
 > but every minor thing counts. For some reason you Europeans makes best
 > and probably all alloys I ever seen, mine are British/German? - TSW
 > wheels, Europe's highest TUV rating for structural integrity and still
 > lighter than steel.
 >
 > My boss is flying to his motherland again this week - Croatia, and always
 > gets amazed at euro gas prices, mind boggling. I'd rather bicycle.
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Diesel vs. gasoline??