Dark Side of the Hybrids

"Sid Schweiger" <spam.RemoveThis@this.cretin> wrote in
news:KpWdnZcOoc14lHDfRVn-1w@comcast.com:

>>>I'm simply pointing out that, like any good corporate PR machine,
>>>Toyota
> is spinning their side of the story very hard in order to sell more
> stuff. By that token, you shouldn't simply believe it wholesale
> without investigating it more.<<
>
> Congratulations. You've just won the grand prize for missing the
> point. They have data. You don't.

Tobacco companies had data,too,yet still told people smoking was safe.

And auto companies often have "hidden" warranties or don't bother telling
people about free repairs to correct deficiencies.Toyota is not any
"saint".They,like any other product seller,are going to paint their product
in the best possible light,and not disclose and downsides.


--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
 >> Stay informed about: Dark Side of the Hybrids 

In article <Xns96A4C0182982Fjyanikkuanet.TakeThisOut@129.250.170.84>,
Jim Yanik <jyanik.TakeThisOut@abuse.gov.> wrote:

> "Sid Schweiger" <spam.TakeThisOut@this.cretin> wrote in
> news:KpWdnZcOoc14lHDfRVn-1w@comcast.com:
>
> >>>I'm simply pointing out that, like any good corporate PR machine,
> >>>Toyota
> > is spinning their side of the story very hard in order to sell more
> > stuff. By that token, you shouldn't simply believe it wholesale
> > without investigating it more.<<
> >
> > Congratulations. You've just won the grand prize for missing the
> > point. They have data. You don't.
>
> Tobacco companies had data,too,yet still told people smoking was safe.
>
> And auto companies often have "hidden" warranties or don't bother telling
> people about free repairs to correct deficiencies.Toyota is not any
> "saint".They,like any other product seller,are going to paint their product
> in the best possible light,and not disclose and downsides.

(just waiting here for Sid to respond. Not holding my breath, but
still...)
 >> Stay informed about: Dark Side of the Hybrids 

>>Tobacco companies had data,too,yet still told people smoking was safe.<<

I deeply appreciate you making my point for me. Just as multiple
disinterested parties came up with the data to contradict the tobacco
companies (which is what got them to admit that they had the same data), I'm
still waiting for Elmo P. Anonymous to come up with the data to contradict
Toyota.
 >> Stay informed about: Dark Side of the Hybrids 

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 >> Stay informed about: Dark Side of the Hybrids 

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 >> Stay informed about: Dark Side of the Hybrids 

"flobert" <nomail.TakeThisOut@here.NOT> wrote in message
news:aaase1lg0i6amans69chnlh9ujmubv6hb8@4ax.com...

> People with hybrids can be described in one word - poser. "Look at me,
> i'm driving a hybrid, aren't I trendy, trying to show i'm conserned
> with the enviroment, but cool, and have money to waste" - what a right
> old load of bollocks it is.

I have a solution for you!
Don't worry about what other people drive.
 >> Stay informed about: Dark Side of the Hybrids 

"Sid Schweiger" <spam RemoveThis @this.cretin> wrote in
news:SL6dnW0aLqcf-nDfRVn-3w@comcast.com:

>>>Tobacco companies had data,too,yet still told people smoking was
>>>safe.<<
>
> I deeply appreciate you making my point for me. Just as multiple
> disinterested parties came up with the data to contradict the tobacco
> companies (which is what got them to admit that they had the same
> data), I'm still waiting for Elmo P. Anonymous to come up with the
> data to contradict Toyota.
>
>

I note you edited out the comments about auto companies knowing about
product defects in their vehicles(hidden warranties),yet not revealing them
so they would not have to correct them at their expense,until enough
'incidents' occur and public indignation forces them to correct them,hoping
that the owners would fix them themselves at their own cost.Also,the
"lemon" laws that had to be passed to get auto companies to replace
vehicles with major recurring defects.


Actually,disgruntled tobacco employees revealed that the companies had the
data for many years.

It's also like the recent cellphone while driving debate;It's common sense
that it's a dangerous distraction,and the data has not been collected
sufficiently to prove it,but rational people still know that CP use while
driving is dangerous.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
 >> Stay informed about: Dark Side of the Hybrids 

This message is not archived
 >> Stay informed about: Dark Side of the Hybrids 

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop.TakeThisOut@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
news:elmop-FDB330.08234501082005@nntp1.usenetserver.com...
> In article <-KGdnU0oo_hCj3PfRVn-pg.TakeThisOut@sedona.net>,
> Let me put it this way: when President Bush puts something in black and
> white like that, do you agree that one should be careful and not
> necessarily accept what he says at face value?

Back to the issue....
Let me put it this way: all Toyota has to do is enter into a contract with a
company to handle the recycling on a per-unit basis and add the cost of that
and the $200 deposit to the battery. Then they can make the claim in good
conscience. It greatly limits their liabilities and costs them nothing at
all. They would be incomprehensibly stupid not to... so what on earth would
make you think such a thing?

Mike
 >> Stay informed about: Dark Side of the Hybrids 

"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull DeleteThis @cybertrails.com> wrote in
news:T-ydnZ2dnZ0yTLnhnZ2dnQ2nbd-dnZ2dRVn-z52dnZ0@sedona.net:

> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop DeleteThis @nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
> news:elmop-FDB330.08234501082005@nntp1.usenetserver.com...
>> In article <-KGdnU0oo_hCj3PfRVn-pg DeleteThis @sedona.net>,
>> Let me put it this way: when President Bush puts something in black
>> and white like that, do you agree that one should be careful and not
>> necessarily accept what he says at face value?
>
> Back to the issue....
> Let me put it this way: all Toyota has to do is enter into a contract
> with a company to handle the recycling on a per-unit basis and add the
> cost of that and the $200 deposit to the battery. Then they can make
> the claim in good conscience. It greatly limits their liabilities and
> costs them nothing at all. They would be incomprehensibly stupid not
> to... so what on earth would make you think such a thing?
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>

Was the orignal claim about Toyota not recycling their NiMH batteries or
the amount of battery life the batteries would have under ordinary service?
I thought it was the latter.

I do not doubt that Toyota would recycle the batteries.
Their claims on life expectancy,I might doubt.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
 >> Stay informed about: Dark Side of the Hybrids 

The only problem I have with hybrids is that people dump their "old" cars to purchase an environmentally friendlier vehicle....

It is my understanding that the processes involved in manufacturing a new car cause more polution than driving the same car will produce over its entire lifetime.

So the greenest car is a used one...no matter the gas mileage.
 >> Stay informed about: Dark Side of the Hybrids 

thedonga wrote:
> "" wrote:
> > "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop.RemoveThis@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
> > news:elmop-FDB330.08234501082005@nntp1.usenetserver.com...
> > > In article <-KGdnU0oo_hCj3PfRVn-pg.RemoveThis@sedona.net>,
> > > Let me put it this way: when President Bush puts something
> > in black and
> > > white like that, do you agree that one should be careful and
> > not
> > > necessarily accept what he says at face value?
> >
> > Back to the issue....
> > Let me put it this way: all Toyota has to do is enter into a
> > contract with a
> > company to handle the recycling on a per-unit basis and add
> > the cost of that
> > and the $200 deposit to the battery. Then they can make the
> > claim in good
> > conscience. It greatly limits their liabilities and costs them
> > nothing at
> > all. They would be incomprehensibly stupid not to... so what
> > on earth would
> > make you think such a thing?
> >
> > Mike
>
> The only problem I have with hybrids is that people dump their "old"
> cars to purchase an environmentally friendlier vehicle....
>
> It is my understanding that the processes involved in manufacturing a
> new car cause more polution than driving the same car will produce
> over its entire lifetime.
>
> So the greenest car is a used one...no matter the gas mileage.
>
there's a substantial element of truth to that, and you're thinking big
picture which is good, but for smaller utilitarian cars at least, there
is an overall benefit for the newer more efficient vehicles. whether
that continues to be the case is another matter now that we have
relatively clean burning fuel injected cars, but compared to
carburetion, the overall benefit of modern cars is worth the
manufacturing effort.
 >> Stay informed about: Dark Side of the Hybrids 

Jason wrote:

> Mike,
> You are probably right. I know that you will be right once the price of
> hybrid vehicles comes down to the point where almost anyone can easily
> afford to buy them. The Honda Accord Hybrid is so expensive that Honda is
> having a difficult time selling very many of them. If the Accord Hybrid
> was priced the same as the 6 cyld. Accord, they would sell lots more of
> them.
> Jason
>

Honda has taken a strange road with the Accord Hybrid and the Acura MDX
hybrid. Rather than using the technology to make a high fuel economy
vehicle they are using it to make a higher performance, expensive vehicle.

Mostly they are selling these vehicles to the feel-good, feel-proud
buyer. A good manual transmission diesel-powered drivetrain would be a
much more efficient use of resources both at the manufacturing stage and
in use.

John
 >> Stay informed about: Dark Side of the Hybrids