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External
Since: Apr 23, 2004
Posts: 175
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 10:17 am
Post subject: Dark Side of the Hybrids
Archived from groups: alt>autos>honda (more info?)
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The current edition of "Car and Driver" (magazine) has an interesting
article about the dark side of the hybrids on page 26. The date on the
cover is September 2005.
Many of the so called "greenies" have purchased hybrids because they
really care about the environment. I learned about something from the
article that I had never thought about before. What's going to happen to
those millions of batteries in hybrid vehicles after they wear out? They
will be placed in landfills. Imagine the harm that those batteries may do
to the enviroment after they are laying in a landfill for 50 years.
If you own or are planning to buy a hybrid vehicle, I advise you to read
the article.
Jason
--
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External
Since: Dec 26, 2003
Posts: 59
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 2:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Dark Side of the Hybrids [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 10:17:32 -0700, jason.TakeThisOut@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
>
>The current edition of "Car and Driver" (magazine) has an interesting
>article about the dark side of the hybrids on page 26. The date on the
>cover is September 2005.
>
>Many of the so called "greenies" have purchased hybrids because they
>really care about the environment. I learned about something from the
>article that I had never thought about before. What's going to happen to
>those millions of batteries in hybrid vehicles after they wear out? They
>will be placed in landfills. Imagine the harm that those batteries may do
>to the enviroment after they are laying in a landfill for 50 years.
>
I don't know the specifics but it seems that recycling of such
things is quite common these days. |
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External
Since: Feb 15, 2004
Posts: 199
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 6:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Dark Side of the Hybrids [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Imported from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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External
Since: Jul 14, 2004
Posts: 48
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 6:37 pm
Post subject: Re: Dark Side of the Hybrids [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop DeleteThis @nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
news:elmop-E6BE88.18342330072005@nntp1.usenetserver.com...
> In article <kknne1t1eropvvu7f34ufmjs6lgtq80uct DeleteThis @4ax.com>,
> Elliot Richmond <xmrichmond DeleteThis @xaustin.xrr.xcom> wrote:
>
>> Here is what Toyota has to say about battery replacement
>> and recycling:
>
> Spun like a member of the Clinton family.
>
> If you believe Toyota's PR spin 100%, you're in for a big surprise.
.....and?
That's it?
Please enlighten us with your wisdom on the subject. >> Stay informed about: Dark Side of the Hybrids |
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External
Since: Feb 15, 2004
Posts: 199
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 7:48 pm
Post subject: Re: Dark Side of the Hybrids [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Imported from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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External
Since: Oct 16, 2004
Posts: 125
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 9:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Dark Side of the Hybrids [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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jason DeleteThis @nospam.com (Jason) wrote in news:jason-3007051017330001@pm4-broad-
55.snlo.dialup.fix.net:
>
> The current edition of "Car and Driver" (magazine) has an interesting
> article about the dark side of the hybrids on page 26. The date on the
> cover is September 2005.
>
> Many of the so called "greenies" have purchased hybrids because they
> really care about the environment. I learned about something from the
> article that I had never thought about before. What's going to happen to
> those millions of batteries in hybrid vehicles after they wear out? They
> will be placed in landfills. Imagine the harm that those batteries may do
> to the enviroment after they are laying in a landfill for 50 years.
>
> If you own or are planning to buy a hybrid vehicle, I advise you to read
> the article.
>
> Jason
>
Lead-acid and other types of batteries (NiCd and NiMH,Li-ion)are already
recycled,why should hybrid auto batteries escape that?
IMO,there would be valuable materials that could be recovered,in the
amounts that will be discarded.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net >> Stay informed about: Dark Side of the Hybrids |
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External
Since: Oct 16, 2004
Posts: 125
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 9:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Dark Side of the Hybrids [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Steve Bigelow" <stevebigelowXXX.DeleteThis@rogers.com> wrote in
news:gvqdnUTaMpe6nHHfRVn-hQ@rogers.com:
>
> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop.DeleteThis@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
> news:elmop-E6BE88.18342330072005@nntp1.usenetserver.com...
>> In article <kknne1t1eropvvu7f34ufmjs6lgtq80uct.DeleteThis@4ax.com>,
>> Elliot Richmond <xmrichmond.DeleteThis@xaustin.xrr.xcom> wrote:
>>
>>> Here is what Toyota has to say about battery replacement
>>> and recycling:
>>
>> Spun like a member of the Clinton family.
>>
>> If you believe Toyota's PR spin 100%, you're in for a big surprise.
>
> ....and?
> That's it?
>
> Please enlighten us with your wisdom on the subject.
>
>
>
NiMH and NiCd can only be recharged a number of times before their capacity
drops off,and L-A batteries suffer from sulfation,electrolyte loss,and
vibration/shock damage(material falls out of the lead grids,shorts the
cell). Hot environments like the Southwest and Florida will shorten battery
life further.
I don't know of any rechargeable battery chemistry that can be recharged
100,000 times.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net >> Stay informed about: Dark Side of the Hybrids |
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External
Since: Apr 04, 2005
Posts: 8
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 10:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Dark Side of the Hybrids [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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>>Car batteries are not disposed of. Their materials - mostly lead -- are
recycled indefinitely. The battery industry has been continuously recycling
and reusing lead from old car batteries for more than 50 years.<<
Only problem is: The high-voltage hybrid batteries are not lead-acid, but
nickel-metal-hydride (NiMH).
>>Brock Yates--the author of the article--stated the following in his
article: "[Batteries] are hardly biodegradable items like spoiled
vegetables. They are in fact self-contained toxic waste dumps. How and where
millions of these poisonous boxes will be deposited ... has yet to be
considered, much less resolved."<<
For Brock Yates, a reactionary conservative, to even mention recycling is
amazing all by itself...but that sounds to me as if he's making an
assumption. I'd like to hear what Honda and the other makers of hybrids
have to say about it. >> Stay informed about: Dark Side of the Hybrids |
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External
Since: Apr 04, 2005
Posts: 8
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 10:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Dark Side of the Hybrids [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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>>All I'm saying is, Toyota is spinning their side of the story very
hard...In other words, never listen to a car salesman. And that's all that
PR piece is.<<
Right. However, according to you we should believe any yahoo who posts
under an assumed name in a newsgroup, without any proof whatsoever.
Thanks. I needed a good laugh today. >> Stay informed about: Dark Side of the Hybrids |
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External
Since: Jul 29, 2005
Posts: 6
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 10:42 pm
Post subject: Re: Dark Side of the Hybrids [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 10:17:32 -0700, jason.RemoveThis@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
>
>The current edition of "Car and Driver" (magazine) has an interesting
>article about the dark side of the hybrids on page 26. The date on the
>cover is September 2005.
>
>Many of the so called "greenies" have purchased hybrids because they
>really care about the environment. I learned about something from the
>article that I had never thought about before. What's going to happen to
>those millions of batteries in hybrid vehicles after they wear out? They
>will be placed in landfills. Imagine the harm that those batteries may do
>to the enviroment after they are laying in a landfill for 50 years.
>
>If you own or are planning to buy a hybrid vehicle, I advise you to read
>the article.
>
>Jason
Pfft, missing the point. The point is that they're ONLY getting
40-45mpg. Many non-hybrids on sale in the EU will easily beat that.
For isntance, n the UK, a VW lupo returned to one of the most
outspoken motoring journalists int he world, an AVERAGE of 65mpg
Hybrids are a Pr stunt only. >> Stay informed about: Dark Side of the Hybrids |
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External
Since: Jul 31, 2005
Posts: 1
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 11:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Dark Side of the Hybrids [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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There is a new thing called "recycling"
"Jason" <jason.DeleteThis@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jason-3007051017330001@pm4-broad-55.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
>
> The current edition of "Car and Driver" (magazine) has an interesting
> article about the dark side of the hybrids on page 26. The date on the
> cover is September 2005.
>
> Many of the so called "greenies" have purchased hybrids because they
> really care about the environment. I learned about something from the
> article that I had never thought about before. What's going to happen to
> those millions of batteries in hybrid vehicles after they wear out? They
> will be placed in landfills. Imagine the harm that those batteries may do
> to the enviroment after they are laying in a landfill for 50 years.
>
> If you own or are planning to buy a hybrid vehicle, I advise you to read
> the article.
>
> Jason
>
> --
> NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
> We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
> We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.
>
>
> >> Stay informed about: Dark Side of the Hybrids |
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External
Since: Feb 15, 2004
Posts: 199
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 7:25 am
Post subject: Re: Dark Side of the Hybrids [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Imported from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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External
Since: Jul 14, 2004
Posts: 48
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 9:53 am
Post subject: Re: Dark Side of the Hybrids [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Jim Yanik" <jyanik.RemoveThis@abuse.gov.> wrote in message
news:Xns96A3D50822383jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.83...
> "Steve Bigelow" <stevebigelowXXX.RemoveThis@rogers.com> wrote in
> news:gvqdnUTaMpe6nHHfRVn-hQ@rogers.com:
>
>>
>> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop.RemoveThis@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
>> news:elmop-E6BE88.18342330072005@nntp1.usenetserver.com...
>>> In article <kknne1t1eropvvu7f34ufmjs6lgtq80uct.RemoveThis@4ax.com>,
>>> Elliot Richmond <xmrichmond.RemoveThis@xaustin.xrr.xcom> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Here is what Toyota has to say about battery replacement
>>>> and recycling:
>>>
>>> Spun like a member of the Clinton family.
>>>
>>> If you believe Toyota's PR spin 100%, you're in for a big surprise.
>>
>> ....and?
>> That's it?
>>
>> Please enlighten us with your wisdom on the subject.
>>
>>
>>
>
> NiMH and NiCd can only be recharged a number of times before their
> capacity
> drops off,and L-A batteries suffer from sulfation,electrolyte loss,and
> vibration/shock damage(material falls out of the lead grids,shorts the
> cell). Hot environments like the Southwest and Florida will shorten
> battery
> life further.
> I don't know of any rechargeable battery chemistry that can be recharged
> 100,000 times.
Well, a hybrids' certainly wouldn't need to unless it only got 3 miles per
charge. >> Stay informed about: Dark Side of the Hybrids |
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External
Since: Aug 23, 2003
Posts: 8
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:55 am
Post subject: Re: Dark Side of the Hybrids [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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The sky is falling! The sky is falling! The sky is falling!
Jason wrote:
> The current edition of "Car and Driver" (magazine) has an interesting
> article about the dark side of the hybrids on page 26. The date on the
> cover is September 2005.
>
> Many of the so called "greenies" have purchased hybrids because they
> really care about the environment. I learned about something from the
> article that I had never thought about before. What's going to happen to
> those millions of batteries in hybrid vehicles after they wear out? They
> will be placed in landfills. Imagine the harm that those batteries may do
> to the enviroment after they are laying in a landfill for 50 years.
>
> If you own or are planning to buy a hybrid vehicle, I advise you to read
> the article.
>
> Jason
>
> --
> NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
> We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
> We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.
--
Tp,
-------- __o
----- -\<. -------- __o
--- ( )/ ( ) ---- -\<.
-------------------- ( )/ ( )
-----------------------------------------
No Lawsuit Ever Fixed A Moron... >> Stay informed about: Dark Side of the Hybrids |
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External
Since: Apr 04, 2005
Posts: 8
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 1:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Dark Side of the Hybrids [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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>>I'm simply pointing out that, like any good corporate PR machine, Toyota
is spinning their side of the story very hard in order to sell more stuff.
By that token, you shouldn't simply believe it wholesale without
investigating it more.<<
Congratulations. You've just won the grand prize for missing the point.
They have data. You don't. You just assume that they're "spinning" because
they're a big, bad company with an axe to grind. YOU made the allegation
that they're "spinning." Where's your proof? Show us your data to prove
their data wrong. We're waiting.
>>But because I'm saying that, you decide that Toyota's press release must
be 100% correct and truthful?<<
Add to the above cited prize another one for putting words in someone's
mouth. I decided no such thing. I see, so far, no evidence to contradict
the press release, but that doesn't mean the evidence does or does not
exist. You, OTOH, just assume it's a lie.
Still waiting for that proof. >> Stay informed about: Dark Side of the Hybrids |
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