Commer TS3 opposed piston 2 stroke

Hi, I have found this site while searching for stuff on Commers. I live in the South Island of New Zealand and like you, grew up with the sound of the TS3, as my father was a truck driver who drove TS3s and I often accompanied him. I have never driven one, but as a result of my interest in Commer trucks and TS3s, I produce a newsletter for about 50+ Commer enthusiasts in NZ, as well as sending them to England, Norway, the Netherlands and Australia. To answer your questions;
I have heard from two sources that the engine was originally developed by Tillings - Stevens, a company that used to make petrol-electric buses used in England around WW1. They were taken over by the Rootes Group, makers of Commers. This is where the motor designation comes from TS 3 = Tillings Stevens 3 cylinder. It was designed for underfloor mounting, originally for English self-righting life boats. It was also mounted underfloor in the Commer Avenger bus chassis.
They were significantly cheaper to run than other equivalent diesel motors of the time, my father quoting 12-14mpg on difficult hilly going. What was really appreciated was their instant power compared to other (lumbering?) diesels of the time. They were always easy starters, and if they didn't start first push on the button, it was an indication that all was not well. In New Zealand, they were never used within their design limitations as a 7 tonner. I have a photo from my father's collection which shows his Commer with not one but 2 trailers on behind. It has been estimated that it had to have a least 20+ ton of sheep on board. This was fairly usual of the time. An engineer from Rootes in England came out to visit NZ and was horrified by what he saw. They were designed for milk and beer deliveries on local runs on smooth roads, but he saw them as tractor units pulling logging jinkers with huge logs out of the bush (there were no heavy trucks in NZ after WW2 until the 1970s). They took this punishment but the trouble was that while they could pull up one side of the hill, they didn't have the brakes for going down the other side with these sort of loads on - no engine braking from the two-stroke engine! In New Zealand, there were all sorts of modifications made (which would now be illegal) to increase the truck and trailer braking, including the fitting of 3 compressors on the motor. This lack of down hill braking led to engine problems - particularly the breaking up of the 'fire rings' at the top of the pistons. One expert says that if drivers stopped at the top of the hill for a while after a long hard slog and let the engine cool down, it wouldn't have been a problem, but another expert says that it was due to over-revving going down the hill with a heavy (over) load and lack of suitable braking. The interesting thing is that they would still start and do a hard days work, even if suffering cracked liners from this mistreatment.
It was also fairly easy to alter the fuel pump through various means to provide more fuel (and hence more power) than intended, although this often lead to melted pistons! One trick involved fitting 14mm spark plug washers over the fuel pump ramp to extend its travel. The transmission problem you note related to Commer's bad idea of fitting the 5 speed synchro box from the petrol to the diesel which wasn't up to the job and lead to 1st and reverse failure. This was eventually sorted and the later 6 spd Commer box was really loved by drivers. I don't know about nice to drive but drivers and operators still swear by them and the concensus is that they helped an awful lot of businesses get off the ground. One of the drivers that worked with my father was put on a Mercedes (which was just getting a foot hold in NZ - it may have been an early 1418 or the L series bonnetted model before) on trial loan from the dealer. I can remember this truck it was darkish red. The 1418 was generally considered a huge improvement on the Commer but when the trial was over, the driver wanted his Commer back as he reckoned the Merc had no-where near the instant power on the hills.
I worked on farm work where a local firm's driver used a TS 3 powered tractor unit to collect the peas from our pea-viners. Eventually, it was replaced by a Perkins 6354 powered version (they fitted this engine in NZ after 1972) and he hated the gutless thing - he wanted his tired TS 3 back!
Chrysler bought Rootes Group in 1966/67 and were staggered at what they found in the TS4 - the 4 cylinder version. 14 prototypes had been built and they were an incredible motor and would have been ahead of anything at the time 200hp, etc. Chrysler had a deal with Cummins in England so they ordered the 14 destroyed. Luckily 4 survive (mainly in museums in England) and a friend has just found one in a barn in Ireland and imported it to NZ. He is in regular contact with Don Kitchen, the designer of the TS 3/4 and the facts he has on what this motor achieved in testing is amazing. The motor that replaced the TS4 in Commers, the Cummins Vale 170/185hp was a disaster - it was a high revving, low torque hand grenade!
I don't know of any thoughts of bringing this motor back. Noise would be a huge problem but with new technologies this could probably be cured.
The TS3 found a lot of use in stationery engines, in fact Lister combined with Commer to produce a 'power-pack' for multiple use - there is a link to this in the other posting on this topic. I have heard heaps of stories of how, if they were kept at 1500rpm, given a change of oil and air filter occasionally, they went for ever. They were popular in the Australian outback where farmers filled a 44 drum of diesel connected to the TS 3 and visited it to refuel it once a week. It was always still going! Another story I have from 1st hand concerns a sand barge on a NZ river where the TS 3 wasn't touched for 15 years. They were quite a popular boat motor (which probably isn't surprising since that is what they were designed for.
Don't forget though that they were a copy of a pre-war design by Sulzar (Swiss). There are a number of people in NZ who have restored and running TS3s. There is a later model one for sale at the moment with only 63000 miles on the clock.
If you want to get in touch, ( howard.pettigrew DeleteThis @xtra.co.nz) I would be happy to send you the newsletter I put out, which includes photos of the TS 4 and pictures and stories of the TS 3
Cheers from NZ
 >> Stay informed about: Commer TS3 opposed piston 2 stroke 

redbeard45 wrote:
 >
 > "News43" wrote:
  > > This remarkable engine was built from 1954 to 1972. I would
  > > like to know
  > > some details of this truck. They were common when I was a boy.
  > > Even as a 4
  > > years old this truck stood out because of the whine of the
  > > engine (probably
  > > the rootes blower) and exhaust note. It sounded wonderful. It
  > > sounded class
  > > and quality even to a 4 years old.
  > >
  > > Many were still around in the late 1980s/early 90s.
  > >
  > > Some questions;
  > >
  > > 1. Where these engines cheap to run compared to the equivalent
  > > trucks of the
  > > time?
  > > 2. Where they reliable? (I believe they had mainly
  > > transmission problems
  > > rather than engine, (well there was little to the engine)
  > > 3. Did drivers like them? Where they nice to drive?
  > > 4. I believe Chrysler of the USA bought out Rootes and
  > > dropped the Comer
  > > brand and engines in 1972. (I believe the Commer commercial
  > > vehicles
  > > division was making a profit) A 4 cylinder prototype was being
  > > developed at
  > > the time, and near complete. Why did Chrysler drop an
  > > obviously successful,
  > > efficient (in cc terms as it was only 3.5 litres) and ultra
  > > simple engine
  > > with near 20 years of development behind it?
  > > 5. Does anyone know if this type of engine is being brought
  > > back? With new
  > > engine technology and synthetic lubricants, this design would
  > > be a great
  > > success.
  > >
  > > TIA
 >
 > Hi, I live in the South Island of New Zealand and like you, grew up
 > with the sound of the TS3, as my father was a truck driver who drove
 > TS3s and I often accompanied him. I have never driven one, but as a
 > result of my interest in Commer trucks and TS3s, I produce a
 > newsletter for about 50+ Commer enthusiasts in NZ, as well as sending
 > them to England, Norway, the Netherlands and Australia. To answer your
 > questions;
 > I have heard from two sources that the engine was originally developed
 > by Tillings - Stevens, a company that used to make petrol-electric
 > buses used in England around WW1. They were taken over by the Rootes
 > Group, makers of Commers. This is where the motor designation comes
 > from TS 3 = Tillings Stevens 3 cylinder. It was designed for
 > underfloor mounting, originally for English self-righting life boats.
 > It was also mounted underfloor in the Commer Avenger bus chassis.
 > They were significantly cheaper to run than other equivalent diesel
 > motors of the time, my father quoting 12-14mpg on difficult hilly
 > going. What was really appreciated was their instant power compared to
 > other (lumbering?) diesels of the time. They were always easy
 > starters, and if they didn’t start first push on the button, it was an
 > indication that all was not well. In New Zealand, they were never used
 > within their design limitations as a 7 tonner. I have a photo from my
 > father’s collection which shows his Commer with not one but 2 trailers
 > on behind. It has been estimated that it had to have a least 20+ ton
 > of sheep on board. This was fairly usual of the time. An engineer from
 > Rootes in England came out to visit NZ and was horrified by what he
 > saw. They were designed for milk and beer deliveries on local runs on
 > smooth roads, but he saw them as tractor units pulling logging jinkers
 > with huge logs out of the bush (there were no heavy trucks in NZ after
 > WW2 until the 1970s). They took this punishment but the trouble was
 > that while they could pull up one side of the hill, they didn’t have
 > the brakes for going down the other side with these sort of loads on -
 > no engine braking from the two-stroke engine! In New Zealand, there
 > were all sorts of modifications made (which would now be illegal) to
 > increase the truck and trailer braking, including the fitting of 3
 > compressors on the motor. This lack of down hill braking led to engine
 > problems - particularly the breaking up of the ’fire rings’ at the top
 > of the pistons. One expert says that if drivers stopped at the top of
 > the hill for a while after a long hard slog and let the engine cool
 > down, it wouldn’t have been a problem, but another expert says that it
 > was due to over-revving going down the hill with a heavy (over) load
 > and lack of suitable braking. The interesting thing is that they would
 > still start and do a hard days work, even if suffering cracked liners
 > from this mistreatment.
 > It was also fairly easy to alter the fuel pump through various means
 > to provide more fuel (and hence more power) than intended, although
 > this often lead to melted pistons! One trick involved fitting 14mm
 > spark plug washers over the fuel pump ramp to extend its travel. The
 > transmission problem you note related to Commer’s bad idea of fitting
 > the 5 speed synchro box from the petrol to the diesel which wasn’t up
 > to the job and lead to 1st and reverse failure. This was eventually
 > sorted and the later 6 spd Commer box was really loved by drivers. I
 > don’t know about nice to drive but drivers and operators still swear
 > by them and the concensus is that they helped an awful lot of
 > businesses get off the ground. One of the drivers that worked with my
 > father was put on a Mercedes (which was just getting a foot hold in NZ
 > - it may have been an early 1418 or the L series bonnetted model
 > before) on trial loan from the dealer. I can remember this truck it
 > was darkish red. The 1418 was generally considered a huge improvement
 > on the Commer but when the trial was over, the driver wanted his
 > Commer back as he reckoned the Merc had no-where near the instant
 > power on the hills.
 > I worked on farm work where a local firm’s driver used a TS 3 powered
 > tractor unit to collect the peas from our pea-viners. Eventually, it
 > was replaced by a Perkins 6354 powered version (they fitted this
 > engine in NZ after 1972) and he hated the gutless thing - he wanted
 > his tired TS 3 back!
 > Chrysler bought Rootes Group in 1966/67 and were staggered at what
 > they found in the TS4 - the 4 cylinder version. 14 prototypes had been
 > built and they were an incredible motor and would have been ahead of
 > anything at the time 200hp, etc. Chrysler had a deal with Cummins in
 > England so they ordered the 14 destroyed. Luckily 4 survive (mainly in
 > museums in England) and a friend has just found one in a barn in
 > Ireland and imported it to NZ. He is in regular contact with Don
 > Kitchen, the designer of the TS 3/4 and the facts he has on what this
 > motor achieved in testing is amazing. The motor that replaced the TS4
 > in Commers, the Cummins Vale 170/185hp was a disaster - it was a high
 > revving, low torque hand grenade!
 > I don’t know of any thoughts of bringing this motor back. Noise would
 > be a huge problem but with new technologies this could probably be
 > cured.
 > The TS3 found a lot of use in stationery engines, in fact Lister
 > combined with Commer to produce a ’power-pack’ for multiple use -
 > there is a link to this in the other posting on this topic. I have
 > heard heaps of stories of how, if they were kept at 1500rpm, given a
 > change of oil and air filter occasionally, they went for ever. They
 > were popular in the Australian outback where farmers filled a 44 drum
 > of diesel connected to the TS 3 and visited it to refuel it once a
 > week. It was always still going! Another story I have from 1st hand
 > concerns a sand barge on a NZ river where the TS 3 wasn’t touched for
 > 15 years. They were quite a popular boat motor (which probably isn’t
 > surprising since that is what they were designed for.
 > Don’t forget though that they were a copy of a pre-war design by
 > Sulzar (Swiss). There are a number of people in NZ who have restored
 > and running TS3s. There is a later model one for sale at the moment
 > with only 63000 miles on the clock.
 > If you want to get in touch, I would be happy to send you the
 > newsletter I put out, which includes photos of the TS 4 and pictures
 > and stories of the TS 3
 > Cheers from NZ
 >
 > --
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 > Articles individually checked for conformance to usenet standards
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That was interesting. The Otago Vintage Machinery Club at Outram, near
Dunedin, has one of these motors on display, sectioned so you can see
inside it. I also remember the distinctive whining scream those trucks
made, and haven't heard one for decades. Cheers, another NZer


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 >> Stay informed about: Commer TS3 opposed piston 2 stroke 

Hi Steve. Your sectioned engine sounds similar to the one Bill Richardson has in his amazing truck collection in Invercargill. Have you been there? He has one with an electric motor you can switch on to see how it works. I know of another in England - I wonder if they were sent out by Rootes to train mechanics? Bill has also got a side plate from Gills in Huntly that was a local NZ development that allows 3 compressors to be added to the motor to increase braking efficiency for trailers (I have never seen a photo of a Commer truck in England with a trailer on behind, unless they were an artic (tractor unit!) whereas here in NZ, they were hardly ever seen without one! The original engine only had one compressor driven off the (front?) rocker.
Pleased to find another New Zealander contributing. Please get in touch if your organisation or anyone else you know wants to receive a copy of my Commer Connections newsletter. It has a readership of 70+ in NZ plus its sent to Australia, England, Norway, Sweden and the Czech Republic. I will shortly be sending a newsletter to Don Kitchen, the original designer and developer of the TS 3/4 motors so it will be interesting to get in touch with him - he is still alive and well and regularly communicates with another Commer fan in Auckland - the person that imported the TS4. There is still a surprising number of TS 3s around and some are still in use!!! Says a lot for how well made they are
Please get in touch on howard.pettigrew.DeleteThis@xtra.co.nz
Cheers
Howard P, Rangiora
 >> Stay informed about: Commer TS3 opposed piston 2 stroke 

I remember working on this engine but only to fit a blower.I remember it was
not a very nice job to do I seem to remember that the blower drive shaft
would shear also. Drivers tell me that you had to drive them hard and in
the dark when how they would fire up and blow out the hot carbon particles.

Ken


"Classic Car Fair" <classicads DeleteThis @orcon.net.nz> wrote in message
news:414F0441.C1CADB@orcon.net.nz...
 >
 >
 > redbeard45 wrote:
  >>
  >> "News43" wrote:
   >> > This remarkable engine was built from 1954 to 1972. I would
   >> > like to know
   >> > some details of this truck. They were common when I was a boy.
   >> > Even as a 4
   >> > years old this truck stood out because of the whine of the
   >> > engine (probably
   >> > the rootes blower) and exhaust note. It sounded wonderful. It
   >> > sounded class
   >> > and quality even to a 4 years old.
   >> >
   >> > Many were still around in the late 1980s/early 90s.
   >> >
   >> > Some questions;
   >> >
   >> > 1. Where these engines cheap to run compared to the equivalent
   >> > trucks of the
   >> > time?
   >> > 2. Where they reliable? (I believe they had mainly
   >> > transmission problems
   >> > rather than engine, (well there was little to the engine)
   >> > 3. Did drivers like them? Where they nice to drive?
   >> > 4. I believe Chrysler of the USA bought out Rootes and
   >> > dropped the Comer
   >> > brand and engines in 1972. (I believe the Commer commercial
   >> > vehicles
   >> > division was making a profit) A 4 cylinder prototype was being
   >> > developed at
   >> > the time, and near complete. Why did Chrysler drop an
   >> > obviously successful,
   >> > efficient (in cc terms as it was only 3.5 litres) and ultra
   >> > simple engine
   >> > with near 20 years of development behind it?
   >> > 5. Does anyone know if this type of engine is being brought
   >> > back? With new
   >> > engine technology and synthetic lubricants, this design would
   >> > be a great
   >> > success.
   >> >
   >> > TIA
  >>
  >> Hi, I live in the South Island of New Zealand and like you, grew up
  >> with the sound of the TS3, as my father was a truck driver who drove
  >> TS3s and I often accompanied him. I have never driven one, but as a
  >> result of my interest in Commer trucks and TS3s, I produce a
  >> newsletter for about 50+ Commer enthusiasts in NZ, as well as sending
  >> them to England, Norway, the Netherlands and Australia. To answer your
  >> questions;
  >> I have heard from two sources that the engine was originally developed
  >> by Tillings - Stevens, a company that used to make petrol-electric
  >> buses used in England around WW1. They were taken over by the Rootes
  >> Group, makers of Commers. This is where the motor designation comes
  >> from TS 3 = Tillings Stevens 3 cylinder. It was designed for
  >> underfloor mounting, originally for English self-righting life boats.
  >> It was also mounted underfloor in the Commer Avenger bus chassis.
  >> They were significantly cheaper to run than other equivalent diesel
  >> motors of the time, my father quoting 12-14mpg on difficult hilly
  >> going. What was really appreciated was their instant power compared to
  >> other (lumbering?) diesels of the time. They were always easy
  >> starters, and if they didn't start first push on the button, it was an
  >> indication that all was not well. In New Zealand, they were never used
  >> within their design limitations as a 7 tonner. I have a photo from my
  >> father's collection which shows his Commer with not one but 2 trailers
  >> on behind. It has been estimated that it had to have a least 20+ ton
  >> of sheep on board. This was fairly usual of the time. An engineer from
  >> Rootes in England came out to visit NZ and was horrified by what he
  >> saw. They were designed for milk and beer deliveries on local runs on
  >> smooth roads, but he saw them as tractor units pulling logging jinkers
  >> with huge logs out of the bush (there were no heavy trucks in NZ after
  >> WW2 until the 1970s). They took this punishment but the trouble was
  >> that while they could pull up one side of the hill, they didn't have
  >> the brakes for going down the other side with these sort of loads on -
  >> no engine braking from the two-stroke engine! In New Zealand, there
  >> were all sorts of modifications made (which would now be illegal) to
  >> increase the truck and trailer braking, including the fitting of 3
  >> compressors on the motor. This lack of down hill braking led to engine
  >> problems - particularly the breaking up of the 'fire rings' at the top
  >> of the pistons. One expert says that if drivers stopped at the top of
  >> the hill for a while after a long hard slog and let the engine cool
  >> down, it wouldn't have been a problem, but another expert says that it
  >> was due to over-revving going down the hill with a heavy (over) load
  >> and lack of suitable braking. The interesting thing is that they would
  >> still start and do a hard days work, even if suffering cracked liners
  >> from this mistreatment.
  >> It was also fairly easy to alter the fuel pump through various means
  >> to provide more fuel (and hence more power) than intended, although
  >> this often lead to melted pistons! One trick involved fitting 14mm
  >> spark plug washers over the fuel pump ramp to extend its travel. The
  >> transmission problem you note related to Commer's bad idea of fitting
  >> the 5 speed synchro box from the petrol to the diesel which wasn't up
  >> to the job and lead to 1st and reverse failure. This was eventually
  >> sorted and the later 6 spd Commer box was really loved by drivers. I
  >> don't know about nice to drive but drivers and operators still swear
  >> by them and the concensus is that they helped an awful lot of
  >> businesses get off the ground. One of the drivers that worked with my
  >> father was put on a Mercedes (which was just getting a foot hold in NZ
  >> - it may have been an early 1418 or the L series bonnetted model
  >> before) on trial loan from the dealer. I can remember this truck it
  >> was darkish red. The 1418 was generally considered a huge improvement
  >> on the Commer but when the trial was over, the driver wanted his
  >> Commer back as he reckoned the Merc had no-where near the instant
  >> power on the hills.
  >> I worked on farm work where a local firm's driver used a TS 3 powered
  >> tractor unit to collect the peas from our pea-viners. Eventually, it
  >> was replaced by a Perkins 6354 powered version (they fitted this
  >> engine in NZ after 1972) and he hated the gutless thing - he wanted
  >> his tired TS 3 back!
  >> Chrysler bought Rootes Group in 1966/67 and were staggered at what
  >> they found in the TS4 - the 4 cylinder version. 14 prototypes had been
  >> built and they were an incredible motor and would have been ahead of
  >> anything at the time 200hp, etc. Chrysler had a deal with Cummins in
  >> England so they ordered the 14 destroyed. Luckily 4 survive (mainly in
  >> museums in England) and a friend has just found one in a barn in
  >> Ireland and imported it to NZ. He is in regular contact with Don
  >> Kitchen, the designer of the TS 3/4 and the facts he has on what this
  >> motor achieved in testing is amazing. The motor that replaced the TS4
  >> in Commers, the Cummins Vale 170/185hp was a disaster - it was a high
  >> revving, low torque hand grenade!
  >> I don't know of any thoughts of bringing this motor back. Noise would
  >> be a huge problem but with new technologies this could probably be
  >> cured.
  >> The TS3 found a lot of use in stationery engines, in fact Lister
  >> combined with Commer to produce a 'power-pack' for multiple use -
  >> there is a link to this in the other posting on this topic. I have
  >> heard heaps of stories of how, if they were kept at 1500rpm, given a
  >> change of oil and air filter occasionally, they went for ever. They
  >> were popular in the Australian outback where farmers filled a 44 drum
  >> of diesel connected to the TS 3 and visited it to refuel it once a
  >> week. It was always still going! Another story I have from 1st hand
  >> concerns a sand barge on a NZ river where the TS 3 wasn't touched for
  >> 15 years. They were quite a popular boat motor (which probably isn't
  >> surprising since that is what they were designed for.
  >> Don't forget though that they were a copy of a pre-war design by
  >> Sulzar (Swiss). There are a number of people in NZ who have restored
  >> and running TS3s. There is a later model one for sale at the moment
  >> with only 63000 miles on the clock.
  >> If you want to get in touch, I would be happy to send you the
  >> newsletter I put out, which includes photos of the TS 4 and pictures
  >> and stories of the TS 3
  >> Cheers from NZ
  >>
  >> --
  >> <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.AutoForumz.com/" target="_blank">http://www.AutoForumz.com/</a> This article was posted by author's request
  >> Articles individually checked for conformance to usenet standards
  >> Topic URL:
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 >
 >
 > That was interesting. The Otago Vintage Machinery Club at Outram, near
 > Dunedin, has one of these motors on display, sectioned so you can see
 > inside it. I also remember the distinctive whining scream those trucks
 > made, and haven't heard one for decades. Cheers, another NZer
 >
 >
 > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
 > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.newsfeeds.com" target="_blank">http://www.newsfeeds.com</a> - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
 > -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Commer TS3 opposed piston 2 stroke 

What was so special about the 2-stroke Commer? It certainly wasn’t cheap and rumours spread about its unconventional engine frightened away a lot of potential buyers.
But you have to go back to the mid 60’s, a time of small cabs with mechanical hands on the door and rubber bands around the 2 speed diff switch to look at what was available in the 7-ton size truck.
Ford had their ostentatious V8 banger with wire holding the bonnet and guards together or the dreadful Thames Trader. International had a more serious range right up to the 190. Austin was there, Bedford, and the Leyland, Albion, AEC, Seddon, etc. range. Dodge offered the power giant, and the Rootes Group had the Commers.
I was 12 when we got our first 2 stroke Commer, a near new repossessed single drive cab and chassis with all the extras. You tend to forget that power steer was a luxury in those days, air over hydraulic brakes instead of lousy vacuum and of course the big No 4 Eaton diff which was indestructible. It was a 62 model; single piece windscreen and she went straight to work pulling bulk sugar in 2x 6ton bins on a short single axle semi.
By 1968 dad had bought another new version with the flash, but still non-tilting cab. They both pulled 12 ton semis but soon we moved to 3x6ton bins using a 9ft wide-spread semi. This gave us a gross combination weight greatly in excess of the designed load and we were granted a special permit, as to move on to heavier rigs would have exceeded the capacity of the town bridge. Main Roads Engineers monitored the bridge and finally gave the all clear for 60ton B-doubles. Sometimes our total weight would be 32 tons, due to over zealous loaders at the mill, but the Commers kept on going and the excellent brakes on the semi quickly pulled them up.
So as a kid, I worked on our as well as other owner’s trucks, and knew them inside out. I think I could still neutralize the diff in my sleep. (To grease the universals)
But they certainly had some faults, and I’ll have a go remembering as it’s been 40 years.
Oils. As long as you used good quality 2-stroke diesel oil, no worries. Unfortunately a lot of owners simply didn’t understand 2-strokes and therefore spent each weekend de-carbonising the exhaust ports.
Exhaust manifold. The early engines had an aluminium exhaust manifold, which when hot, drooped and sagged then fell to bits. Later ones had cast iron and this was a necessary replacement.
Exhaust pipe. The exhaust gases exited straight into a long piece of flexible pipe, which carboned up solid in no time, then proceeded to either tear the flex apart or cause more grief to the manifold. The mass of 2 big mufflers swinging on rubber mounts didn’t help.
Ancillaries. Given that excellent companies such as CAV or SIMMS were available, it was unforgivable of Rootes to fit rubbish Lucas starters and generators. Almost any Commer fire was caused by the starter staying engaged after the engine had fired. As the engine was a bit noisy, it was impossible to hear the starter screaming at unbelievable revs until it’s fiery death, right adjacent to the glass fuel filter bowl.
Air compressor. It must have been an after thought and just slipped it’s big end onto the longer left rear rocker arm pin. Way too small and due to the amazing amount of oil thrown around inside the crankcase, it was impossible to stop oil sucking passed the compressor’s rings and into the system. Despite increasing the piston length on later models, they were still an oily air system. I could never understand why they didn’t fit a decent 2-cylinder compressor straight onto the timing case, just like GM.
Crankcase breather. The engines breathed a lot. The front axle would be awash after a day’s work and I had the job of cleaning everything in dieso each weekend.
Air cleaners. Two oil bath cleaners were probably the go back then but on Australia’s roads, they were next to useless. The left front wheel would throw up heaps of dust right where the filters were mounted, clog the oily mesh and load up the engine. Performance dropped off and if you didn’t fix the problem immediately, you ran the risk of screwing off the blower shaft. Notably later models mounted the filters high on the rear of the cab, but they were still only oil bath cleaners.
Timing chain. Early models had a multi-row timing chain, which stretched and stretched and of course, retarded your injector timing. They had a hydraulic tensioner to keep it tight, and a rubbing block for start up (until oil pressure) Once again, later models had timing gears and designers took this opportunity to increase the blower speed and thus give a bit more power.
Injector pump. The early engines had a vacuum governor control, which used intricate butterflies mounted in the inlet tract before the blower. Although the system performed admirably, I always thought the butterflies were restricting the airflow. I think later models changed to a DPA distributor type injector pump with hydraulic governor and of course, they made more power.
Pistons. Our early engines had pistons with a removable steel crown, which incorporated a stud to bolt it to the aluminium piston. I worked on engines where the crowns had worked loose and some had even turned sideways before being crushed at the next stroke. Because we worked in confined spaces, to fit the pistons we made up a short tapered sleeve, same diameter as the engines’, and fitted each piston into the sleeve at the bench. Then we just offered the dummy sleeve up to the engine sleeve and pushed the piston through into the engine. Very quick and no damage to those pegged rings.
Rocker arms. I once worked on an engine that had somehow loosened the big Nylok nuts holding the exhaust side rocker arm shafts. Imagine the damage as in one blow, the arm and shaft came out a bit too far, then the piston’s oil rings must have sprung out and the rocker just pushed the whole lot across, sleeve, injector and all.
Gearbox. Our trucks had the standard 5-speed sliding mesh gearbox and we never saw inside it, which says it all.
Clutch. We never had a slipping clutch but the awful mechanical operation and light duty engine mounts gave the most jumpy starts imaginable. Hydraulic actuation would have fixed the problem. We always did a clutch reline at each timing chain replacement.
Chassis. The front springs were too skinny and too thin. Combined with no shocks and terrible roads, we broke a spring every day, I kid you not. As a youngster with good eyes, it was my job after school, to crawl under and wipe off the oil to check for broken springs. I was hated by the drivers who were keen to get home instead of changing springs, but if you missed a broken leaf, next day the ones below it would also be broken. We started to break the chassis when we moved up to the 28-ton loads. They would start to break across the top, down the side and then stop, holding by just the bottom flange. As it was always slightly ahead of the turntable area, the truck was really saying 28 ton is too much.
There is probably a lot more, but I don’t want to give the wrong impression.
If ever an engine was ahead of it’s time, then this was it. Forget about 4 cylinders, why not give the poor thing a decent bore, at least 4 inch, then turbo charge and after cool it. I think the power would have been outstanding. Then add some more fuel to increase the boost, what’s it going to do blow a head gasket? What a waste.
Compared to the 2-stroke GM of the day, it was just so simple and we got 12mpg.
As it was always down on power, speeds were slower and therefore tyres lasted forever with 100000 miles from a Michelin the norm.
People forget that registration was calculated on rated horsepower in those days, which was a simple sum of bore squared x number of cylinders divided by 2.5.
So a Commer with 3.125 bore and 3 cylinders had about 11 rated horsepower. Compare that to a V8 petrol with some 60 rated horsepower and a fuel economy of 4mpg.
As well as owning trucks, my dad managed a fleet of about 30 more in the 60’s to 70’s and each night we kids would add the daily tonnages, tally fuel bills etc, so we soon worked out who got the best economy. The Commers were streets ahead each week.
It’s amazing how many successful truck operators owed their start to this honest workhorse, and so incredibly sad that design TS3 was dumped.
 >> Stay informed about: Commer TS3 opposed piston 2 stroke 

i've just signed up, but I'd appreciate an email from Redbeard45 in
receiving his newsletter. Im from the NZ
South Island also, and enjoyed listening to and driving the
Commer TS3's in Dunedin and Central Otago. The sound of
O'Malleys TS3's on the long hauls on the Pigroot travelled
many miles into the night. I drove them with Brambles SCG
occassionally who inherited one from Crust and Crust, a semi
tractor. Running from the container base with a USS Co 15ton
seafreighter of Blackhead grit or general cargo produced that wonderful
howl under load. I was always sorry to miss out on No73 which was
delivered in April 73, and I think was one of the very last TS3's
delivered in NZ from Brambles Burnett in Ashburton who had a Commer agency
and ran them extensively in their transport fleet. Last year I missed out
on buying a couple up for auction at Nobbys Queensland, which I had
thoughts of restoring, but probably just as well the wife didnt come back
from holi's and find them in the yard.

Cheers Boing.
 >> Stay informed about: Commer TS3 opposed piston 2 stroke 

actually i,v got one of these
 >> Stay informed about: Commer TS3 opposed piston 2 stroke 

Fascinatin stuff , I've always been intrigued by this engine but have found very little about it on the Net. I cant beieve it was only 3.5 litres... what were the power outputs? To run at 32 tons it must have been very strained - I always heard that 6.4bhp per ton was minimum (I think that was the legal requirement here in the UK).
 >> Stay informed about: Commer TS3 opposed piston 2 stroke 

Ken, If you email me at howard.pettigrew.TakeThisOut@xtra.co.nz, I would be happy to
send you the newsletter. I have tried sending to your email address, but
it was rejected???
Cheers
Howard Pettigrew
P.S. I am now redbeard46 as I have forgotten my password for redbeard45!!!
 >> Stay informed about: Commer TS3 opposed piston 2 stroke 

Greg, could you get in touch. I would love to have you contribute your
experiences to our newlsetter. Your observations would strike a note with
others in NZ
Cheers
 >> Stay informed about: Commer TS3 opposed piston 2 stroke 

Greg - thanks for ur PM , very interesting stuff. Sounds like my dads old AEC Mandator on the hills out of Cornwall!

Has anyone got a definitive power output, and what the 4 cyl might have had? In Novembers Classic and Vintage Commercial theres a letter from Mark Erskine in NZ who has a 4cyl plus lots of 3cyl spares.
 >> Stay informed about: Commer TS3 opposed piston 2 stroke 

"redbeard46" <howard.pettigrew RemoveThis @xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:06142061ad44647c70376da518ba6ef3@localhost.talkabouttrucks.com...
 > Greg, could you get in touch. I would love to have you contribute your
 > experiences to our newlsetter. Your observations would strike a note with
 > others in NZ
 > Cheers

Thanks to all who contributed to this thread Brilliant, the lot of you.

The opposed piston diesel two stoke is not dead. A new version is available
for aero use:
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.dair.co.uk/" target="_blank">http://www.dair.co.uk/</a>

Developing this to auto use can't be that difficult. Things have moved on
from the 50s and 60s.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Commer TS3 opposed piston 2 stroke 

"ghinzani" <UseLinkToEmail.TakeThisOut@AutoForumz.com> wrote in message
news:41a4e1f9$1_5@alt.athenanews.com...
 > "user711" wrote:
  > > Ken, If you email me at howard.pettigrew.TakeThisOut@xtra.co.nz, I would
  > > be happy to
  > > send you the newsletter. I have tried sending to your email
  > > address, but
  > > it was rejected???
  > > Cheers
  > > Howard Pettigrew
  > > P.S. I am now redbeard46 as I have forgotten my password for
  > > redbeard45!!!
 >
 > Greg - thanks for ur PM , very interesting stuff. Sounds like my dads
 > old AEC Mandator on the hills out of Cornwall!
 >
 > Has anyone got a definitive power output, and what the 4 cyl might
 > have had? In Novembers Classic and Vintage Commercial theres a letter
 > from Mark Erskine in NZ who has a 4cyl plus lots of 3cyl spares.

He has a 4 cylinder TS3? One of the prototypes that never made it to
production? Is it in a truck?<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Commer TS3 opposed piston 2 stroke