Turbo Charging Big BLock Chevy for Street-9 Sec.

Thanks for the help. I'll have to check that out. Any other tips or hints thanks.
 >> Stay informed about: Turbo Charging Big BLock Chevy for Street-9 Sec. 

"scuba" <UseLinkToEmail DeleteThis @AutoForumz.com> wrote in message
news:41e5dfe8$1_4@alt.athenanews.com...
 >I am super interested in all I can get my hands on for this. I have a
 > 3200lb car. Thats my start everything goes up from there.

The weight?? or the cost...

I am
 > thinking around 454-509 cubic inches,1000-1200 HP, 8.50-9.00 sec
 > range,

That is way more than you will need for a 9.00 run.. but what the hell..


  >3:73-3:90 gear ratio,

Probably not needed with those kind of cubes , torque will not be a problem,
and you do not want to run threw your RPMs so quick as to waste it , maybe
a bit lower would be a better choice, say in the 3.25-3.50 range .
V8 turbo motors do not really need to rev to make huge power, particularly
with those kind of cubes so why spin the motor higher than you really need
to just to hit your target mph .

 >auto, 3000-3500 ish stall.

I had a 3500 on my 351W -TT , it was nuts on the street, and just worsened
the problem of blowing the tires away at the track.
It is now a 2800 and works great, but that is a street car, not really a
drag car.
But by the size of the motor you talking about ,and the power you want to
make , you should be able to make a daily driver with those goals still in
mind.. fuel delivery will be the key of course , so I am hoping you are not
thinking carb here..


Could someone
 > help me or point me in the right direction for requirements, cam
 > selection,

Cam selection should really be done as a package when determining your
motors combo, like compression , valve size,etc...
I like in the mid to low 8s for comp.

 > boost levels,

For me , [ not carved in stone, its just the way I look at it for
guestimating boost I will need] if my motor is estimated at making a certain
amount of hp N/A .. like in your case, your big cube motor should make at
least 500hp NA @ atmospheric pressure [ aprx 14.7 ] without breaking a sweat
[ in the configuration it will be in as a turbo motor ] . .. so, in turn,
you would need another 14.7psi of boost to double the initial power .. I
have found this is a pretty close guestimation for anything I have done ,
but it may be different for your set up.
If you ran 23psi [ intercooled and proper fuel delivery ] you should make
your 1250hp goal .. but this is all "roughly" gauged on what you predict
your motor will make in the first place.
Once you have this information you can pic a turbo/s that can deliver this
kind of performance [ hp ]..or...you can go to the books and use the charts.
If I had to guess, a couple of T66s from turbonetics or whoever.. should do
the trick, you will need some pretty big A/R exhaust housings because of the
huge flow it will have to handle, I can not remember what the next size
above .96 is ... 1.03???..
You may get away with 3" down pipes [ on a twin system ] but bigger 3.5 or
4" would probably be better if it is not that much trouble to install.
These turbos should put you well into the 1300+ range worth of usable power.
There are also some pretty trick double ended ball bearing turbos out now..
a friend runs one on his car and says the spool up time is incredible ,and
of course you are not dealing with the old style bearings that do and will
eventually fail ... but they are big $$$$$$$$$ ..compared to the standard
turbos.
And if they do fail.. its bigger $$$$$$$$$ to fix them..





 >turbo sizes, dual vs.

I like twins if you can get them in the engine bay, they just seem to make
the power easier with less boost, always run an intercooler, I prefer air to
air, but if this is a drag only car, then the "ice water to air" systems are
better .. but to much of a pain in the ass for me to ever use..


single etc. I have had
 > a couple of GMC 671s so I am some what familiar but still am in the
 > dark. Also I just started looking at forums and such and fond some
 > numbers of roughly 1000 CFM inlet? Any help would be GREAT

I don't know what you mean by "1000 CFM inlet".. is that an intake,or a
carb, a throttlebody... ??? .
On the subject of intakes etc.. you would be suprized at what size the air
flow system does not have to be to make huge power.. but .. the more you
spend the easier it is to make, meaning less boost, less intake air temp
etc ....
I have out of the box Dart heads with 2.02 valves on my 351W.. they work
great... full intake system porting would work better of course.. but I like
the "bolt on a go like hell aproach ".
Same goes for header primary tubes.. a 1.5" tube will support 100hp and keep
the velocity up at the same time .. you will have to run bigger of course,
but my suggestion is to not go nuts on the size just because " you can" ..
Also, try to make your primary header tubes flow area equal the collector
flow area .

Oh ya, as another poster said.. pick up CBs book "Max Boost" , as well as
Hugh MacKinnis's "turbochargers" , they are definitely worth the read.
And lastly... you probaly know this already seeing you have run a blower
car.. what ever you think you are going to spend.. double it.. so the shock
will not be as bad when you do .. .
Dave.



 >
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 >> Stay informed about: Turbo Charging Big BLock Chevy for Street-9 Sec. 

Thank you . Thats alot of good stuff. As far as "fuel delivery will be the key of course , so I am hoping you are not
thinking carb here.. " I am also looking into differnet injection. Can you help in the area of injector sizes and flow. I'm sure there has to be a HP/fuel flow ratioThanks again Scuba
 >> Stay informed about: Turbo Charging Big BLock Chevy for Street-9 Sec. 

The car is a 55 chevy post. I have built one of these cars before but this time I ahve alot different thoughts and have learned from that experience things I wish to change. The numbers that I gave were just basic or maximum numbers that I feel still remain "street". The 3:73 gear still is very cruisable. The big block fills the compartment and should help for my dramatic package. I am looking into turbos for reliability and also for exterior appearance (last one had carburation and scoop through hood). To me a street car is reliable, runs on pump gas and will not overheat.
As for as compression goes you mentioned 8:1? is that max for running pump gas? I know that supers can run 9:1. Also heat as I mentioned is a major concern. Do turbos create heat like supers do?
You mentioned "try to make your primary header tubes flow area equal the collector flow area". Do you mean volume I asume? Also you had said 23psi of boost is that a typo? That seems like crazy boost from all I've heard and my readings. Thanks once again for all.
 >> Stay informed about: Turbo Charging Big BLock Chevy for Street-9 Sec. 

"scuba" <UseLinkToEmail.RemoveThis@AutoForumz.com> wrote in message
news:41e8aca3$1_4@alt.athenanews.com...
 > "flymx" wrote:
  > > "scuba" <UseLinkToEmail.RemoveThis@AutoForumz.com> wrote in message
  > > news:41e5dfe8$1_4@alt.athenanews.com...
   > > >I am super interested in all I can get my hands on for this.
  > > I have a
   > > > 3200lb car. Thats my start everything goes up from there.
  > >
  > > The weight?? or the cost...
  > >
  > > I am
   > > > thinking around 454-509 cubic inches,1000-1200 HP, 8.50-9.00
  > > sec
   > > > range,
  > >
  > > That is way more than you will need for a 9.00 run.. but what
  > > the hell..
  > >
  > >
   > > >3:73-3:90 gear ratio,
  > >
  > > Probably not needed with those kind of cubes , torque will not
  > > be a problem,
  > > and you do not want to run threw your RPMs so quick as to
  > > waste it , maybe
  > > a bit lower would be a better choice, say in the 3.25-3.50
  > > range .
  > > V8 turbo motors do not really need to rev to make huge power,
  > > particularly
  > > with those kind of cubes so why spin the motor higher than you
  > > really need
  > > to just to hit your target mph .
  > >
   > > >auto, 3000-3500 ish stall.
  > >
  > > I had a 3500 on my 351W -TT , it was nuts on the street, and
  > > just worsened
  > > the problem of blowing the tires away at the track.
  > > It is now a 2800 and works great, but that is a street car,
  > > not really a
  > > drag car.
  > > But by the size of the motor you talking about ,and the power
  > > you want to
  > > make , you should be able to make a daily driver with those
  > > goals still in
  > > mind.. fuel delivery will be the key of course , so I am
  > > hoping you are not
  > > thinking carb here..
  > >
  > >
  > > Could someone
   > > > help me or point me in the right direction for requirements,
  > > cam
   > > > selection,
  > >
  > > Cam selection should really be done as a package when
  > > determining your
  > > motors combo, like compression , valve size,etc...
  > > I like in the mid to low 8s for comp.
  > >
   > > > boost levels,
  > >
  > > For me , [ not carved in stone, its just the way I look at it
  > > for
  > > guestimating boost I will need] if my motor is estimated at
  > > making a certain
  > > amount of hp N/A .. like in your case, your big cube motor
  > > should make at
  > > least 500hp NA @ atmospheric pressure [ aprx 14.7 ] without
  > > breaking a sweat
  > > [ in the configuration it will be in as a turbo motor ] . ..
  > > so, in turn,
  > > you would need another 14.7psi of boost to double the initial
  > > power .. I
  > > have found this is a pretty close guestimation for anything I
  > > have done ,
  > > but it may be different for your set up.
  > > If you ran 23psi [ intercooled and proper fuel delivery ] you
  > > should make
  > > your 1250hp goal .. but this is all "roughly" gauged on what
  > > you predict
  > > your motor will make in the first place.
  > > Once you have this information you can pic a turbo/s that can
  > > deliver this
  > > kind of performance [ hp ]..or...you can go to the books and
  > > use the charts.
  > > If I had to guess, a couple of T66s from turbonetics or
  > > whoever.. should do
  > > the trick, you will need some pretty big A/R exhaust housings
  > > because of the
  > > huge flow it will have to handle, I can not remember what the
  > > next size
  > > above .96 is ... 1.03???..
  > > You may get away with 3" down pipes [ on a twin system ] but
  > > bigger 3.5 or
  > > 4" would probably be better if it is not that much trouble to
  > > install.
  > > These turbos should put you well into the 1300+ range worth of
  > > usable power.
  > > There are also some pretty trick double ended ball bearing
  > > turbos out now..
  > > a friend runs one on his car and says the spool up time is
  > > incredible ,and
  > > of course you are not dealing with the old style bearings that
  > > do and will
  > > eventually fail ... but they are big $$$$$$$$$ ..compared to
  > > the standard
  > > turbos.
  > > And if they do fail.. its bigger $$$$$$$$$ to fix them..
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > >
   > > >turbo sizes, dual vs.
  > >
  > > I like twins if you can get them in the engine bay, they just
  > > seem to make
  > > the power easier with less boost, always run an intercooler, I
  > > prefer air to
  > > air, but if this is a drag only car, then the "ice water to
  > > air" systems are
  > > better .. but to much of a pain in the ass for me to ever
  > > use..
  > >
  > >
  > > single etc. I have had
   > > > a couple of GMC 671s so I am some what familiar but still am
  > > in the
   > > > dark. Also I just started looking at forums and such and
  > > fond some
   > > > numbers of roughly 1000 CFM inlet? Any help would be GREAT
  > >
  > > I don't know what you mean by "1000 CFM inlet".. is that an
  > > intake,or a
  > > carb, a throttlebody... ??? .
  > > On the subject of intakes etc.. you would be suprized at what
  > > size the air
  > > flow system does not have to be to make huge power.. but ..
  > > the more you
  > > spend the easier it is to make, meaning less boost, less
  > > intake air temp
  > > etc ....
  > > I have out of the box Dart heads with 2.02 valves on my 351W..
  > > they work
  > > great... full intake system porting would work better of
  > > course.. but I like
  > > the "bolt on a go like hell aproach ".
  > > Same goes for header primary tubes.. a 1.5" tube will support
  > > 100hp and keep
  > > the velocity up at the same time .. you will have to run
  > > bigger of course,
  > > but my suggestion is to not go nuts on the size just because "
  > > you can" ..
  > > Also, try to make your primary header tubes flow area equal
  > > the collector
  > > flow area .
  > >
  > > Oh ya, as another poster said.. pick up CBs book "Max Boost" ,
  > > as well as
  > > Hugh MacKinnis's "turbochargers" , they are definitely worth
  > > the read.
  > > And lastly... you probaly know this already seeing you have
  > > run a blower
  > > car.. what ever you think you are going to spend.. double it..
  > > so the shock
  > > will not be as bad when you do .. .
  > > Dave.
  > >
  > >
  > >
   > > >
   > > > --
   > > > Posted using the <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.AutoForumz.com/" target="_blank">http://www.AutoForumz.com/</a> interface, at author's
   > > > request
   > > > Articles individually checked for conformance to usenet
  > > standards
   > > > Topic URL:
<font color=brown>   > > > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.AutoForumz.com/Turbo-Charged-Charging-Big-BLock-Chevy-Street-Sec-ftopict98363.html</font" target="_blank">http://www.AutoForumz.com/Turbo-Charged-Charging-Big-BLock-Chevy-Stree...ec-ftop</a>>
   > > > Visit Topic URL to contact author (reg. req'd). Report
  > > abuse:
<font color=brown>   > > > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.AutoForumz.com/eform.php?p=452277</font" target="_blank">http://www.AutoForumz.com/eform.php?p=452277</font</a>>
 >
 > Thank you . Thats alot of good stuff. As far as "fuel delivery will
 > be the key of course , so I am hoping you are not
 > thinking carb here.. " I am also looking into differnet injection.

Accels "DFI" system is good, even an older style non-sequetial system will
do for what you are doing, you can get them pretty cheap used now as
compared to a brand new "wide band DFI system" .. wide band EGO [ exhaust
gas oxygen ] sensor systems are way better but twice the price .
Your call.$$$.. tune it on the dyno for a couple of hundred dollars or spend
the money and always have a built in tuning device right in the car .


 > Can you help in the area of injector sizes and flow. I'm sure there
 > has to be a HP/fuel flow ratioThanks again Scuba

Baically , it takes 1/2lb of fuel per hour to make "one hp" .. so if your
goal is 1200hp you need 600lbs of fuel per hour .. knowing there are going
to be eight injectors [ 600 div by 8 ] you will need a min. of 75 lb
injectors .
There is more to it like the overall efficiency of your engine [ bsfc] so
that "75lb" number is really the bare min.. for a safety margine I would go
at least go up another 40% in size , just in case there is a hickup in the
fuel pump, regulator or whatever ..
As far as I can remember there are no 105 lb injectors available so you will
most likely have to go to the 150s.. there are other options like having two
injectors per port but that is getting more technical and costly... the
motor will be more streetable though if that is your goal.
Even using the 150s , with a motor of that size it should run fine anyway...
as long as you are using a good stand alone fuel control.
Dave.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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"scuba" <UseLinkToEmail.DeleteThis@AutoForumz.com> wrote in message
news:41e8acfd$1_3@alt.athenanews.com...
 > "scuba" wrote:
  > > Thank you . Thats alot of good stuff. As far as
  > > [color=red:83ea1870e7]"fuel delivery will be the key of course
  > > , so I am hoping you are not
  > > thinking carb here..
  > > "[/color:83ea1870e7][color=#444444:83ea1870e7] I am also
  > > looking into differnet injection. Can you help in the area of
  > > injector sizes and flow. I'm sure there has to be a HP/fuel
  > > flow ratio[/color:83ea1870e7]Thanks again Scuba
 >
 > The car is a 55 chevy post. I have built one of these cars before but
 > this time I have alot different thoughts and have learned from that
 > experience things I wish to change. The numbers that I gave were just
 > basic or maximum numbers that I feel still remain "street". The 3:73
 > gear still is very cruisable.

Like I said, you are probably wasting the wide torque range that turbo cars
accellerate best with [ unless you are runnning some seriously tall rear
tires ] .. but if you are bent on wearing out the motor faster then knock
yourself out.

The big block fills the compartment and
 > should help for my dramatic package. I am looking into turbos for
 > reliability and also for exterior appearance (last one had carburation
 > and scoop through hood). To me a street car is reliable, runs on pump
 > gas and will not overheat.

If you are trying to make 1200 on the street , it is possible but you will
definitely have to run a proper fuel control system, and a "HUGE
intercooler"..
Spearco has one that is around 4"x11x22 ... you will need it .


 > As for as compression goes you mentioned 8:1? is that max for
 > running pump gas?
No, its just a range that I like to have my motors [ 8.25-1]

 > I know that supers can run 9:1.

Of course the rule of thumb is the more compression , the less boost on pump
gas you can run ... 9:1 is starting on the high side .. and will kill your
opportunitiy of making your goals on pump fuel right there .

Also heat as I
 > mentioned is a major concern.

Engine heat or air intake temps?.
Turbos make exterior heat,, you may need shields, they also make internal
boost heat so you will need an intercooler, if you were only running 6 or 7
lbs of boost it would not be a problem .

 > Do turbos create heat like supers do?

Yes... but turbos are more efficient once they spool up [if you have good
ones anyway ].

 > You mentioned "try to make your primary header tubes flow area
 > equal the collector flow area". Do you mean volume I asume?

sectional area .. take the sectional flow area of [ what ever tube you are
going to run on the primary .. ie: the smallest without blocking the port ]
and times it by 4 [ primaries] , then find the ideal tube size in a
collector that matches that size .



Also you
 > had said 23psi of boost is that a typo?

That seems like crazy boost
 > from all I've heard and my readings.

It is quite a bit , but that was on race fuel, the motor would run up to
18lbs on pump gas, which equated to aprx 650+ hp [ track mph to trap speed
equation ].. on race fuel [ C16] at 23lbs it made well over 800 .
If the heads and intake were ported out for all out power it probably would
be able to make the 800 on pump fuel but that was not my goal, I wanted to
make as much power with bolt on heads and intake to see what it would do.
Maybe the next time I have the motor out I may look into porting everything
..
These power numbers were with a proper fuel managment system [ DFI ], twin
intercoolers and a really big fuel delivery system.. that is something else
you will need to address .. "lots of fuel".. if your motor is expected to
produce 1000hp.. design a fuel system that will support 1500 for a wide
safety margine.
A small drop in voltage to the fuel pumps reduces their output quite a bit
... something you do not want to screw with, with any supercharged motors.



  >Thanks once again for all.

No problem.
Good luck, if there is anything else just post, someone should be able to
help you .
Dave.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.bankspower.com/twin-turbo-products.cfm" target="_blank">http://www.bankspower.com/twin-turbo-products.cfm</a>
"scuba" <UseLinkToEmail.TakeThisOut@AutoForumz.com> wrote in message
news:41e5dfe8$1_4@alt.athenanews.com...
 > I am super interested in all I can get my hands on for this. I have a
 > 3200lb car. Thats my start everything goes up from there. I am
 > thinking around 454-509 cubic inches,1000-1200 HP, 8.50-9.00 sec
 > range, 3:73-3:90 gear ratio, auto, 3000-3500 ish stall. Could someone
 > help me or point me in the right direction for requirements, cam
 > selection, boost levels, turbo sizes, dual vs. single etc. I have had
 > a couple of GMC 671s so I am some what familiar but still am in the
 > dark. Also I just started looking at forums and such and fond some
 > numbers of roughly 1000 CFM inlet? Any help would be GREAT
 >
 > --
 > Posted using the <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.AutoForumz.com/" target="_blank">http://www.AutoForumz.com/</a> interface, at author's request
 > Articles individually checked for conformance to usenet standards
 > Topic URL:
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 > Visit Topic URL to contact author (reg. req'd). Report abuse:
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 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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