2002 Alfa 156 2.4 JTD

Henk wrote:
 > "Quiz" <UseLinkToEmail.RemoveThis@AutoForumz.com> schreef in bericht

 > I had a similar problem with my 1.9 JTD. The Air mass meter was replaced and
 > after that the throtttle reaction in low revs was 100% better. It picks up
 > and keeps going. This was after 135.000 Km.
 >
 > Greetinzzzz Henk

....you should try to clean it with valvoline carburator cleaner...i did
that on mine and it goes as well as i put a new one inside and this way
is much cheaper i do that every 15000 km...put the MAF out, spray
carburator cleaner inside and outside, spray it well, then let it dry
and put it back inside

demonHR<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 2002 Alfa 156 2.4 JTD 

"demonHR" <dubravko74REMOVE DeleteThis @post.t-com.hr> schreef in bericht
news:d8q8nn$lj3$1@ss405.t-com.hr...
 > Henk wrote:
  >> "Quiz" <UseLinkToEmail DeleteThis @AutoForumz.com> schreef in bericht
 >
  >> I had a similar problem with my 1.9 JTD. The Air mass meter was replaced
  >> and
  >> after that the throtttle reaction in low revs was 100% better. It picks
  >> up
  >> and keeps going. This was after 135.000 Km.
  >>
  >> Greetinzzzz Henk
 >
 > ...you should try to clean it with valvoline carburator cleaner...i did
 > that on mine and it goes as well as i put a new one inside and this way is
 > much cheaper i do that every 15000 km...put the MAF out, spray
 > carburator cleaner inside and outside, spray it well, then let it dry and
 > put it back inside
 >
 > demonHR

Thnx for the tip i will try that.

Greetinzz henk<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 2002 Alfa 156 2.4 JTD 

After taking the Maf meter out and cleaning it, I noticed no difference to the performance, the fault was still there.
I have today, taken the car to a Fiat dealer, PIPERS of Maidstone.
They put the car on to a diognostic check and have told me that the ECU is not recieving a signal from the temperature probe, even though the temperature guage is working correctly.
The next step is to change the temperature probe.
If that does'nt work then check the wiring from the probe to the ECU
If that checks out ok then apparently it must be the ECU?

I do hope it's the probe thats faulty.

Though I'm not sure how this only affects the engine at low revs?
They said that the maf was reading ok?
Quiz.
 >> Stay informed about: 2002 Alfa 156 2.4 JTD 

WELL!

In all my years of mechanicing for Alfa, BMW, Vauxhall etc. I have NEVER known an ECU go down.

I have seen bad earths (lots of them), ECU's fail due to water ingress, poor signals, blocked injectors, . . . . . Well you get the picture.

I have NEVER seen an ACU fail without somebody stamping on it, or a thermo-nuclear attack, or red hot branding irons being used or some other EMP (electro-magnetic-pulse) screwing the thing up. They just DON'T go wrong (of their own volition)!

I hope your Fiat dealer gets it right.

Paulus
 >> Stay informed about: 2002 Alfa 156 2.4 JTD 

Thanks Paulus


But could a temp probe cause this problem?

The ECU was reading the temperature at -172 degrees.

Although the guage was reading about 70 degrees

Quiz.
 >> Stay informed about: 2002 Alfa 156 2.4 JTD 

OK.

I have changed the temp. probe myself, had to take off the battery to do it.

I have driven the car and not believed how different it was, PERFECT pick up from low revs.

30 miles later, same problem but worse,on one occasion I drove for about a mile on tick-over with the revs not picking up at all

Yesterday I had an Auto-electrician round to check the wiring from the probe to the ECU (or should that be ACU). He could not find any thing wrong with the wiring.
I know that Paulus has told me the ECU does not go wrong and I would not like to change it unnecessarilly(did I spell that right), but I do not know where to look now.

The Auto electrician said that I may have to reset the earlier faulty reading from the temperature probe , as the ECU will not know that I have changed it?
But if this were necessary, why did the performance improve for the first 30 miles?

I'm starting to wish I'd bought a Ford
Quiz.
 >> Stay informed about: 2002 Alfa 156 2.4 JTD 

Quiz wrote:

I'm starting to wish I'd bought a Ford

Looking back at your previous submission you say:

"I have today, taken the car to a Fiat dealer.
They put the car on to a diognostic check and have told me that the ECU is not recieving a signal from the temperature probe........".

which implies that the fault is outside the ECU, as it is not RECEIVING a signal.

You have changed the Air-Mass sensor, and your electrotech says "the wiring from the probe to the ECU"
is OK, but that still leaves the "feed" to the Air-Mass meter, and I would check that area first.

It is possible (although unlikely) that you disturbed a poor wire when you fitted the Air-Mass meter which improved a poor connection but which then parted completly after 30 miles. I wouldn't bet the farm on it but it does match the facts as stated.

It is of course possible the ECU is duff but as I said if Pipers say it is not receiving a signal then I reason that the fault is outside the ECU, and I have never seen one go down (has anyone else?).

Oh yeah - I think you will find that Ford probably use the same injector components as most other manufacturers, including Alfa!

Paulus
 >> Stay informed about: 2002 Alfa 156 2.4 JTD 

you say:

"I have today, taken the car to a Fiat dealer.
They put the car on to a diognostic check and have told me that the ECU is not recieving a signal from the temperature probe........".
[color=#444444]
which implies that the fault is outside the ECU, as it is not RECEIVING a signal.
Paulus

The ECU was recieving a signal, but it was minus 172.
Does that imply a bad earth?

Also after checking the wiring yesterday from the temperature probe, this meant having to remove the battery again, the car was good for about 5 miles today. It was good until I parked it and restarted then the same fault re-occured?
Does the ECU need to be reset by a main dealer? or does it reset itself when the battery is disconnected?
Quiz.
 >> Stay informed about: 2002 Alfa 156 2.4 JTD 

Well, it's been a few years since I was working on cars, but in those days no resetting was needed, but I cannot answer you with respect to modern stuff. I simply don't know.

BUT a reading of minus 172 is certainly inaccurate (unless the weather is f*****g cold in your part of the country), so if that is the signal the ECU IS recieving, rather than what the ECU REPORTS it is receiving, then there is a fault externally to the ECU somewhere.

The puckka Workshop Manuals used to supply figures for things like that, so in still air at 25c the reading at the ECU connector would be 3.75 volts (or something), whilst at 20c in a 10kph draught it should be (say) 4.17 volts. It would even tell you which pins to measure accross.

I realise that does not solve your problem but it may help with a little insight as to what should be going on.

Cheers

Paulus
 >> Stay informed about: 2002 Alfa 156 2.4 JTD 

Further to this ECU FAULT (if it is?) I have now noticed that the two engine fans start as soon as the ignition is turned on? Regardless of how cold the engine is. must be connected to the engine pick up fault seeing as the ECU was stalling because of the temperature signal?

Also the engine fault does reset every time I take off the EARTH Lead. The car is fine until the next time I start it?

Very confused!!!!!

Also does anyone know who makes a workshop manual for the 2.4 JTD Sportswagon. I think I could use one.

Quiz.
 >> Stay informed about: 2002 Alfa 156 2.4 JTD 

E-bay has a bunch of them.

Search under Alfa 156 manual
 >> Stay informed about: 2002 Alfa 156 2.4 JTD 

Cheers Paulus,
Ive ordered one.

Quiz.

ps

Bad day with the car today, started ok but would not move off tickover for a full 5 minutes, felt a bit like the glow plugs had'nt glowed.

Then 20miles home with the red engine light on in the right side clock and running like poo. First time I've noticed the light?

Taking the EARTH lead off made no difference to the red light when restarted but did improve the rev pickup though? maybe something has 'give up the ghost' now that the light is on, when I get my workshop manual I might find out what the red light is.
Quiz.
 >> Stay informed about: 2002 Alfa 156 2.4 JTD 

Quiz wrote:

> "Paulus-Milanomotorsport" wrote:
> > E-bay has a bunch of them.
> >
> > Search under Alfa 156 manual
>
> Cheers Paulus,
> Ive ordered one.
>
> Quiz.
>
> ps
>
> Bad day with the car today, started ok but would not move off tickover
> for a full 5 minutes, felt a bit like the glow plugs had’nt glowed.

If the glow plugs hadn't glowed, the engine would not have started
(probably). Nothing to do with them at all

> Then 20miles home with the red engine light on in the right side clock
> and running like poo. First time I’ve noticed the light?
>
> Taking the EARTH lead off made no difference to the red light when
> restarted but did improve the rev pickup though? maybe something has
> ’give up the ghost’ now that the light is on, when I get my workshop
> manual I might find out what the red light is.

I think, perhaps, that would be the ECU warning light. Probably a dealer
job
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 >> Stay informed about: 2002 Alfa 156 2.4 JTD