190E 2.3 vs. 2.6

"Cosworth" <billbalmer RemoveThis @worldnet.att.net> wrote in message \

 >
 > So? A 944 is nice, but a 190E 2.3-16 will outperform it (or at least
 > hold its own)

How wrong you are, let me count the ways...the 2.3-16 pulled an anemic .78g
on the skid pad (R&T) while the 944 pulled .91g. The 944 was the best
handling car you could purchase ON THE PLANET in the 80's and to some
extent the early 90's. In a straight line, you could only hope to beat an
old 8-valve N/A 944 because you would be embarrassed by an old S, S2 or
Turbo.


 >hold its value better

I ran several tests...first comparing comparably equipped 1987 2.3-16 and a
1987 944S. According to nada.com the 1987 944S costs $3900 in poor condition
up to $6250 for excellent condition. I gave the 2.3-16 the same features
such as leather, sunroof and alloy wheels that came stock on the 944 and
the 2.3-16 is valued at $3400 in poor condition and only $5500 for
excellent. The average price for the 2.3-16 was only $4600, vs. $5250 for
the 944S.

Then the final real world test. I searched at Autotrader for the entire
scope of 1987 2.3-16...the average price...$3407, using the exact same
criteria, the 1987 944 average price was $7069. Until the 968 got a
bit long in the tooth by 1995, you could not and cannot get more sports car
value for the money than a 944, period.


Not trying to start a flame war or anything, just fighting off baseless
comments.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 190E 2.3 vs. 2.6 

959 vs. 944Turbo?
 >> Stay informed about: 190E 2.3 vs. 2.6 

 > The 2.3-16 was inported to the US in '86 and '87. In Europe, the displacement was then raised to 2.5 liters and eventually the
 > Evo and Evo II were produced as homologation specials, in production runs of 502 cars each. I believe '92 was the last year of
 > production. None of the 2.5 liter 16-valve cars were ever officially imported to the US.

hmmm lucky us here in Canada, we can get this car

 > There is a thiving 16-valve community on the 'net. EPA and DOT make it extremely difficult to import any of the European spec
 > 2.5-16s. The 2.5-16 wasn't much faster than the 2.3-16, so it's really not worth the trouble. If you got your hands on one of the
 > Evos, that would be another story, but I know of no one who has managed to get one federalized for street use. There are a couple
 > of them in the states, but they are not street legal and are only used on the track.
 >
 > Bill Balmer
 > 190E 2.3-16
 > first 16V in the US
 > featured in Car & Driver , March 1986

Wow! What's the max speed on those things? From experience the manufacturer max speed listings always seem to be lower

cp<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 190E 2.3 vs. 2.6 

 > How wrong you are, let me count the ways...the 2.3-16 pulled an anemic .78g
 > on the skid pad (R&T) while the 944 pulled .91g. The 944 was the best

I think he was talking about a non-turbo

How are the late 80's tubo 944, reliable and robust?

cp<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 190E 2.3 vs. 2.6 

 > Not trying to start a flame war or anything, just fighting off baseless
 > comments.

Gotta love people that are religious about their cars!

cp<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 190E 2.3 vs. 2.6 

One way to do is to register the vehicle in Canada and make the annual
visit to Canada to update the registration and numberplates. That is if
you are Canadian or have Canadian residence. However, some states
require you to register in their home state within 30 days. That might
be a problem, especially in Colorado where the police is on look-out.
I've never done this or heard of others venturing into that endeavour.
However, I've seen lot of non-US compliant vehicles with US state
numberplates, namely smart cars in California and Colorado. I had no
success in prying the utmost secret from the owners on how they were
able to obtain the American numberplates for their vehicles.

cp wrote:
 > hmmmmm I'm saving this, thanks!
 >
 > It's so much simpler in Canada; you can import any car as long as it is 15 years old.
 >
 > cp
 >
 >
 > "OM" <om.RemoveThis@none.net> wrote in message news:1pqdnT1AZZsPiDvfRVn-ow@pcisys.net...
 >
  >>
  >>cp wrote:
  >>[snip]
  >>
   >>>What was the last year of the 16v? My father or myself might go to Europe later in the summer, always brings some cars back, a
   >>>16v would be more interesting than a diesel westfalia like last time
   >>>
   >>>Is there an interested in these cars on this continent? Would an American be allowed to buy one from Europe? hmmm could make it
   >>>an ebay business...
  >>
  >>The short answer is yes but with conditions.
  >>
  >>You are allowed to import the non-US compliant vehicles to the USA, BUT you cannot drive or register the vehicle yet. The
  >>registered importers ought to sort the paperwork on your behalf for ridiculous amount of money. The compliance process is not
  >>cheap, especially for vehicles never been imported to the USA, namely 190E 2,5-16 EVO.
  >>
  >>1. If the vehicle is not on the NHTSA list of approved vehicles and their variants, you must petition for the approval to
  >>homologate your non-US compliant vehicle to meet the DOT and EPA regulations.
  >>2. If the vehicle is approved, you must enlist the registered importer to release it from US Customs stranglehold, er, I mean,
  >>hold.
  >>3. The registered importer must do all of compliance work in accordance to the FMVSS108 for the build year: the list is quite
  >>long.
  >>4. In addition, the registered importer must certify that the motor and its ancillaries meet EPA pollution regulations for the
  >>build year.
  >>5. You can always convert the vehicle back to its original ECE version once US Customs cleared the paperwork and once the vehicle
  >>is registered with the state DMV agency. Make sure the registered importer agreed to retain all of original components and turn
  >>them over to you.
  >>
  >>OR
  >>
  >>You can wait five more years for the exempt on 1985 model as NHTSA allows the vehicles 25-year-old or older to bypass the
  >>compulsory safety regulations, BUT EPA will say, 'not so fast'. You must certify that the vehicle meets the EPA regulation for the
  >>build year.
  >>
  >>OR
  >>
  >>You can push the Congress to repeal the silly laws that created NHTSA. Congress is looking into the issue whether NHTSA is serving
  >>the public safety or not. We need to demand that US become the signatory member of ECE international automotive safety
  >>regulations. NHTSA has been a tragic mistake since its creation in the late 1960s and has failed the public many times over.
  >>
  >>Oliver
 >
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 190E 2.3 vs. 2.6 

In article <HbKdnQ0x3c3IaTTfRVn-tw.TakeThisOut@pcisys.net>, OM <om.TakeThisOut@none.net> wrote:
 >One way to do is to register the vehicle in Canada and make the annual
 >visit to Canada to update the registration and numberplates. That is if
 >you are Canadian or have Canadian residence. However, some states
 >require you to register in their home state within 30 days. That might
 >be a problem, especially in Colorado where the police is on look-out.
 >I've never done this or heard of others venturing into that endeavour.
 >However, I've seen lot of non-US compliant vehicles with US state
 >numberplates, namely smart cars in California and Colorado. I had no
 >success in prying the utmost secret from the owners on how they were
 >able to obtain the American numberplates for their vehicles.

One shortcut is that Maine (VT too, I think) will accept a Canadian title to
register a car newer than 15 years, and does not require a title at all for a
car older than 15 years. Drive across the border, register in Maine, register
in your home state. Not that I would erver have done such a thing for any of
my Saab Club buddies, no sir, no way!

Kevin Rhodes
Westbrook, ME<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 190E 2.3 vs. 2.6 

could any one tell me how to take off the cylinder head on a 2.3 190E 1985
step by step instructions please i have took the head bolts out and it
still wont come off and the bolts to the alternator and thermostat housing
off thank you
 >> Stay informed about: 190E 2.3 vs. 2.6