Worn valve seals

dsi1 wrote:
> I had to get a safety check for my 99 Camry at the shop I go to and
> while I was there, inquired about getting the valve stem seals replaced
> since the engine will emit blue smoke on startup when cold. He
> recommended to live with it as long as the plugs weren't fouling. He did
> say that when you do replace the stem seals, that the valve guides have
> to be checked and replaced if worn since worn guides would damage the
> new seals. Just passing along some info.
>
> david

If you are using 5W-30 or 0W-30 oil, switch to 10W-30. That will
substantially reduce the smoking.
 >> Stay informed about: Worn valve seals 

mjc13<REMOVETHIS> wrote:
> dsi1 wrote:
>> I had to get a safety check for my 99 Camry at the shop I go to and
>> while I was there, inquired about getting the valve stem seals
>> replaced since the engine will emit blue smoke on startup when cold.
>> He recommended to live with it as long as the plugs weren't fouling.
>> He did say that when you do replace the stem seals, that the valve
>> guides have to be checked and replaced if worn since worn guides would
>> damage the new seals. Just passing along some info.
>>
>> david
>
> If you are using 5W-30 or 0W-30 oil, switch to 10W-30. That will
> substantially reduce the smoking.

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll switch to a higher viscosity oil. I've
never seen 0 weight oil before - you must be way up north.

david
 >> Stay informed about: Worn valve seals 

ransley wrote:
> On Feb 13, 6:16 pm, dsi1 wrote:
>> I had to get a safety check for my 99 Camry at the shop I go to and
>> while I was there, inquired about getting the valve stem seals replaced
>> since the engine will emit blue smoke on startup when cold. He
>> recommended to live with it as long as the plugs weren't fouling. He did
>> say that when you do replace the stem seals, that the valve guides have
>> to be checked and replaced if worn since worn guides would damage the
>> new seals. Just passing along some info.
>>
>> david
>
> If you dont burn oil , consume alot, dont worry, its normal and
> actualy lubricates the cilinders when they need it most, on a dry
> startup.

It seems that it would be helpful on reducing cylinder/ring wear. Maybe
not so good for the cylinder head though.

david
 >> Stay informed about: Worn valve seals 

I would try some that high mileage motor oil. I heard that Lucas Oil
Additive works well and will also slow or stop oil consumption. There are
other oil additives that may work as well. Make sure the container mentions
it will help oil seals. I understand these type of products can soften all
the seals.
 >> Stay informed about: Worn valve seals 

rburt07.DeleteThis@texoma.net wrote:
> I would try some that high mileage motor oil. I heard that Lucas Oil
> Additive works well and will also slow or stop oil consumption. There are
> other oil additives that may work as well. Make sure the container mentions
> it will help oil seals. I understand these type of products can soften all
> the seals.

I'm a little worried that oil additives that suppress oil consumption
may aggravate the oil-coking problems in these 4-cylinder engines. Would
this be a reasonable assumption?

david
 >> Stay informed about: Worn valve seals 

Sounds reasonable given the labor cost. Try out the high mileage oil
first, these have o-ring conditioners to swell and help seal.

If the valve stem clearance is off by that much then you're right it's
probably not worth doing the seal alone -- the cylinder head should be
serviced if not the lower half of the engine too. I think the valve
guides are about $2 a piece, but labor cost and other gaskets add up.
Hopefully the wear is minimal with regular 3000-mile oil changes and a
decent filter (Bosch Filtech or Purolator PureOne).

For those who do their own timing belt job and are up to it, consider
the stem seals every other belt change -- it adds about $30 for the
Fel-Pro stem seal set and $12 for the Fel-Pro valve cover set.



On Feb 13, 4:16 pm, dsi1 wrote:
> I had to get a safety check for my 99 Camry at the shop I go to and
> while I was there, inquired about getting the valve stem seals replaced
> since the engine will emit blue smoke on startup when cold. He
> recommended to live with it as long as the plugs weren't fouling. He did
> say that when you do replace the stem seals, that the valve guides have
> to be checked and replaced if worn since worn guides would damage the
> new seals. Just passing along some info.
>
> david
 >> Stay informed about: Worn valve seals 

That's another reason I always use the thickest oil approved for the
temperature range from the beginning. Thicker oils seal better and
have stronger oil films but do flow less than thinner oils.

0W-20 are spec'ed for newer cars for their tighter oil clearances and
better mileage rating, don't think 99 uses it but your region may
vary.


On Feb 14, 11:31 am, dsi1 wrote:
> > If you are using 5W-30 or 0W-30 oil, switch to 10W-30. That will
> > substantially reduce the smoking.
>
> Thanks for the suggestion, I'll switch to a higher viscosity oil. I've
> never seen 0 weight oil before - you must be way up north.
>
> david
 >> Stay informed about: Worn valve seals 

"ransley" wrote in message

On Feb 13, 6:16 pm, dsi1 wrote:
>> I had to get a safety check for my 99 Camry at the shop I go to and
>> while I was there, inquired about getting the valve stem seals
>> replaced
>> since the engine will emit blue smoke on startup when cold. He
>> recommended to live with it as long as the plugs weren't fouling.
>> He did
>> say that when you do replace the stem seals, that the valve guides
>> have
>> to be checked and replaced if worn since worn guides would damage
>> the
>> new seals. Just passing along some info.
>>
>> david

> If you dont burn oil , consume alot, dont worry, its normal and
> actualy lubricates the cilinders when they need it most, on a dry
> startup.

I like that - it isn't a failure, it is a feature!

Ed
 >> Stay informed about: Worn valve seals 

wrote:

> For those who do their own timing belt job and are up to it, consider
> the stem seals every other belt change -- it adds about $30 for the
> Fel-Pro stem seal set and $12 for the Fel-Pro valve cover set.
>
>

I have heard that it's a good idea to replace the water pump when the
timing belt is serviced but not the valve stem seals. Is the reasoning
for this is that it's easy to remove the head at this time?

david
 >> Stay informed about: Worn valve seals 

> wrote:
>
>> For those who do their own timing belt job and are up to it,
consider>> the stem seals every other belt change -- it adds
about $30 for the>> Fel-Pro stem seal set and $12 for the Fel-Pro
valve cover set.
>>
>>
>
> I have heard that it's a good idea to replace the water pump
when the
> timing belt is serviced but not the valve stem seals. Is the
reasoning
> for this is that it's easy to remove the head at this time?
>
> david
>

You do NOT need to remove the head for the stem seals. You DO
need to remove it for the valve guides.
dc
 >> Stay informed about: Worn valve seals 

You don't have to remove the cylinder head to get to the stem seals.
But I can understand why some techs don't want to do this. You'll have
to take off the valve cover, remove the cam shafts carefully following
directions (because of small thrust clearance), remove the 16 valve
springs and then pull off the stem seals.

People usually replace the water pump, camshaft seal, oil pump seal,
and front crankshaft seal etc while doing the timing job (see my list
below). Why? Because that section of the engine is already taken apart
to get to the belt, and the labor to get to them again is much more
than a $5-8 seal or a pump. However, you have to take off more parts
to get to the stem seals, so I understand why some techs don't want to
bother.

We were talking about having a shop do the seals. So they do need a
lever type valve spring compressor (e.g., SP91400A) without taking the
cylinder head off. But decent shops should have them, and your local
parts stores may (or may not) have a free loaner of the lever type of
valve spring compressor (most have OHV and C-clamp types) for the home
gamers.

Valve stem to guide clearance is about 1-2.5 mils, with max specified
just under 4 mils. How that's going to adversely affect a new stem
seal is kinda beyond me, seriously.



Parts I'd replace duirng a timing belt job: (older www.rockauto.com
prices for 3/5SFE)
GATES TCK199 (kit of timing belt with two pulleys and instruction)
$84.79
GATES Part # K030295 PS belt $4.32
GATES Part # K050435 Alt/AC $12.12
FEL-PRO TCS45641 Cam seal $4.11
FEL-PRO TCS45920 Crank seal $6.04
BCA Part # 221820 Oil pump seal $2.71
AISIN (Toyota #16110-79185) water pump $58.79
your local NAPA store has Airtex water pump
FEL-PRO VS50304R valve cover gasket set $13.94



On Feb 15, 2:50 pm, dsi1 wrote:
> I have heard that it's a good idea to replace the water pump when the
> timing belt is serviced but not the valve stem seals. Is the reasoning
> for this is that it's easy to remove the head at this time?
>
> david
 >> Stay informed about: Worn valve seals 

Absolutely!

To remove valve springs with the cylinder head on, a lever type spring
compressor is used, like the Schley SP91400A.

If the cylinder head is removed, then use:
http://www.otctools.com/newcatalog/products/4572_1671.jpg

The added cost may not be worth it for the shade tree mechanic if the
local parts store doesn't have a free loaner. So your mileage may vary
on whether or not to replace the stem seals.




On Feb 16, 8:16 am, doncee wrote:

> You do NOT need to remove the head for the stem seals. You DO
> need to remove it for the valve guides.
> dc
 >> Stay informed about: Worn valve seals 

Stem seals aren't necessary at every timing belt change. But as I said
you can consider them every 2 (or even 3) timing belts if you even
want to change them. That said, Toyota stem seals are known to cause
the start-up blues, but there are other causes of oil leaks.

Toyota engines cook the oil so much that in 2004 they reduced the 7500-
mile oil change interval down to 5000 miles. Let's just say that I
would not be surprised if your stem seals got cooked too, even if they
are made of DuPont Viton fluoroelastomer good to 400 degF (the cheaper
intake seals mean they probably aren't).

http://www.dupontelastomers.com/products/viton/viton.asp




On Feb 15, 2:50 pm, dsi1 wrote:
> I have heard that it's a good idea to replace the water pump when the
> timing belt is serviced but not the valve stem seals. Is the reasoning
> for this is that it's easy to remove the head at this time?
>
> david
 >> Stay informed about: Worn valve seals