Wibble

GT wrote:

> I find that once you get a diesel to a useable rev range and accelerate for
> a few seconds you have run out of revs and have to change gear again - far
> from a relaxing effortless drive! On the other hand, with my petrol engine,
> above about 25-30mph and you can stick it in top gear and leave it there. It
> will happily pull in any gear with revs over about 1200 all the way to
> 6000+, but diesels I have driven required me to be in the right gear and way
> over 1500 revs and they run out of revs around 3000-4000, just as the power
> starts to arrive!

I agree but only because I drive diesels like petrols. When they seem to
just get going they run out of steam. In reality though using the
torque band (typically around 1800-3500) makes for more rapid progress.
Just for petrol heads it doesn't feel that fast. One advantage though is
that it is less obvious to passengers so has the advantage of being less
prone to nagging...

For me driving is not about outright speed (driving a 1.2 Corsa
irresponsibly enough will win the combined urban, country journey) but
the sensation of performance. Hence diesels just don't do it for me, but
each to their own - I never liked low down grunt petrols either,
preferring the smaller higher revving units - what Italian engines mean
to me, but then I am of the older Alfa generation...

Cheers
Tony

Tony R <tony.rickardno.RemoveThis@spam.blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

> GT wrote:
>
> > I find that once you get a diesel to a useable rev range and accelerate for
> > a few seconds you have run out of revs and have to change gear again - far
> > from a relaxing effortless drive! On the other hand, with my petrol engine,
> > above about 25-30mph and you can stick it in top gear and leave it there. It
> > will happily pull in any gear with revs over about 1200 all the way to
> > 6000+, but diesels I have driven required me to be in the right gear and way
> > over 1500 revs and they run out of revs around 3000-4000, just as the power
> > starts to arrive!
>
> I agree but only because I drive diesels like petrols. When they seem to
> just get going they run out of steam. In reality though using the
> torque band (typically around 1800-3500) makes for more rapid progress.
> Just for petrol heads it doesn't feel that fast. One advantage though is
> that it is less obvious to passengers so has the advantage of being less
> prone to nagging...
>
> For me driving is not about outright speed (driving a 1.2 Corsa
> irresponsibly enough will win the combined urban, country journey) but
> the sensation of performance. Hence diesels just don't do it for me, but
> each to their own - I never liked low down grunt petrols either,
> preferring the smaller higher revving units - what Italian engines mean
> to me, but then I am of the older Alfa generation...

I think that's the thing.

Most people form an opinion on diesels based on hire and loan cars,
rather than living with one every day.

If you jump in it and drive it like a petrol, then you'll find it really
disappointing. If you adapt to the way you need to drive a turbo diesel,
you'll find that they're a lot more rapid than the 0-60 times suggest.

A lot of this is to do with gearing - I've been looking at this recently
and trying to pin down exactly what's going on - roll-on in-gear times
for a TDI will beat an equivalent powered petrol hands-down, because the
torque curve has a much flatter profile - ie. more of it is available at
the extremes of the range than in a petrol. This is combined with longer
gearing, so the 3k usable range of a diesel covers a wider range of
speeds.

I've driven the 156 TSpark and my company diesel back to back - the 156
needs to have the engine spinning to get the best out of it - whereas
the diesel feels lazy, but is, in reality, covering the ground equally
as quickly.

Anyway, there are benefits to both - at the weekends I like my revvy
petrols, but everyday, I prefer the lazy performance of the diesel.

I'm currently looking at upgrading to a 170bhp diesel next spring.


--
SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - Hongdou GY200 - Alfa 75 TSpark
Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE - COSOC KOTL
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