Water Pump/dealership Problems A4 2.8 Quatro

"Dano58" <dan.dibiase RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1131981148.596086.110190@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> You usually replace the water pump and timing belt together, since they
> are in the same area. It appears that you're around 78,000 miles -
> which is at the upper end of the normal timing belt replacement period
> (60 - 80k miles) so you should get that done. Water pumps normally get
> a bit squeaky and sometimes leak a little bit. But it's also not
> something to mess around with, if it is indeed going bad.
>
> Dan D
> '04 A4 1.8Tq MT-6
> Central NJ USA

Dan is right. With the mileage on your car, the TB is due for replacement
and it's not unusual to have the water pump begin to die near 80,000 miles -
if the water pump was making noise and/or leaking, it had already begun to
fail and needed prompt replacement. Replacement of both components at the
same time is sensible since both require essentially the same extensive
(read expensive) labor of disassembly/reassembly to get at them. Hopefully,
your dealer also replaced TB tensioners and the thermostat while he was at
it. TB wear is not the only thing that can lead to its failure - tensioner
and/or water pump failure can damage the TB and cause it to also fail. And
one thing you don't want on an A4 is timing belt failure! So I don't think
your dealer was ripping you off but it does sound as if communication could
have been better.
 >> Stay informed about: Water Pump/dealership Problems A4 2.8 Quatro 

no, it was a dealership. My car has only been to dealerships, most of
them giving great service, but different a different story of when
timing belt is due to be changed.

I called Audi HO in Canada and she said it was due at 112,000 km (but
according to my schedule) I do not see that. One dealership told me
120,000km another 168,000km.

I purchased the 1999 from a dealership that said the 96,000 ("expensive
service") was completely done.

?? I am tired of the run around.
 >> Stay informed about: Water Pump/dealership Problems A4 2.8 Quatro 

"Dana" <pperrd.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1131947200.322375.273590@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I just pulled my car out of 9 months in storage - had it completely
> checked out with the oil changed etc. and then drove it cross country
> about 3000km (1,800 miles) and then had the 120,000km (75,000 mile)
> service done.
>
> I then drove back across country another 2000 km (1,250 miles) and 2
> weeks later have a grinding noise when I turn the tires - (diagnosed as
> tire end rods that needed to be replaced) OK...
>
> Then the dealership tells me that the noise I am also hearing is due to
> the water pump. And that it needed to be replaced. They want to
> change the timing belt too while they are in there.
>
> Because, I said money was an issue, I did not want things changed if
> they were OK. I don't hear anything from them and then everything has
> been done, timing belt was changed....I asked for it to be put in my
> car and I see no wear or tear on this belt. I bought this car with
> 65,000 km (40,391 miles) and they had completed the major service.
>
> What are the signs of a faulty water pump, my car was running great
> after the service (there were no temperature problems, any thing to
> indicate coolant was not flowing properly)
>
> Am I missing something?
>
> $1,500 is a big bill to pay when you just spent money on a complete
> service 2 weeks prior.
>
> Dana
>

120k km is the major service to replace the toothed belt according to my
Audi schedule, that's on the 2.8 V6 model.

I magine you went to an independant to get the 120k service done, and they
did not know the Audi service intervals.
 >> Stay informed about: Water Pump/dealership Problems A4 2.8 Quatro 

"Ronny" <Admin DeleteThis @1337hosts.com> wrote in message
news:RK-dnVANkpLYXOXeRVnyiQ@pipex.net...
>
> "Dana" <pperrd DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1131947200.322375.273590@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>I just pulled my car out of 9 months in storage - had it completely
>> checked out with the oil changed etc. and then drove it cross country
>> about 3000km (1,800 miles) and then had the 120,000km (75,000 mile)
>> service done.
>>
>> I then drove back across country another 2000 km (1,250 miles) and 2
>> weeks later have a grinding noise when I turn the tires - (diagnosed as
>> tire end rods that needed to be replaced) OK...
>>
>> Then the dealership tells me that the noise I am also hearing is due to
>> the water pump. And that it needed to be replaced. They want to
>> change the timing belt too while they are in there.
>>
>> Because, I said money was an issue, I did not want things changed if
>> they were OK. I don't hear anything from them and then everything has
>> been done, timing belt was changed....I asked for it to be put in my
>> car and I see no wear or tear on this belt. I bought this car with
>> 65,000 km (40,391 miles) and they had completed the major service.
>>
>> What are the signs of a faulty water pump, my car was running great
>> after the service (there were no temperature problems, any thing to
>> indicate coolant was not flowing properly)
>>
>> Am I missing something?
>>
>> $1,500 is a big bill to pay when you just spent money on a complete
>> service 2 weeks prior.
>>
>> Dana
>>
>
> 120k km is the major service to replace the toothed belt according to my
> Audi schedule, that's on the 2.8 V6 model.
>
> I magine you went to an independant to get the 120k service done, and they
> did not know the Audi service intervals.
>

Ah sorry I did not see the bit where you said "timing belt was done" my
apologies.

All I can say is that in your quest to get it done cheaper, you have
bypassed the normal (I say normal) method of changing the Belts.

How it works is, the timing belt on an Audi A4 is a pita to do, it involves
removing the front bumper and swinging the front of the car round to reveal
the front of the engine, because it is such a shitty job to do you replace
the bits that are accessible while your are replacing the TB.

The parts that you replace when you change the belt are, the Water Pump,
Tensioners, Serpentine belt, Thermostat. The cost of these parts is around
£50.00 but the labour to fit them on their own is huge, but as you are
having the belt replaced you might as well do it as it takes approx 15 mins
to fit a new water pump, 15 mins to fit the thermostat and the same to fit
the serpentine.

You now have to go through the whole process of removing the bumper etc etc
and fit a new water pump which involves removing the timing belt etc.

You see the logic now?

With an Audi the "if it aint broke don't fix it" theory does not always make
sense

hth
 >> Stay informed about: Water Pump/dealership Problems A4 2.8 Quatro 

"Dana" <pperrd RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1131947200.322375.273590@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> What are the signs of a faulty water pump, my car was running great
> after the service (there were no temperature problems, any thing to
> indicate coolant was not flowing properly)
>
> Am I missing something?
>
> $1,500 is a big bill to pay when you just spent money on a complete
> service 2 weeks prior.
>
> Dana
>

As you have had a new belt fitted the bearings on the water pump tend to go,
this is due to the "new" amount of pressure put on the water pump after the
change.
 >> Stay informed about: Water Pump/dealership Problems A4 2.8 Quatro 

"Ronny" <Admin.RemoveThis@1337hosts.com> wrote in message
news:0uadnQ_366JXXuXenZ2dnUVZ8qSdnZ2d@pipex.net...
>
> "Dana" <pperrd.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1131947200.322375.273590@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> What are the signs of a faulty water pump, my car was running great
>> after the service (there were no temperature problems, any thing to
>> indicate coolant was not flowing properly)
>>
>> Am I missing something?
>>
>> $1,500 is a big bill to pay when you just spent money on a complete
>> service 2 weeks prior.
>>
>> Dana
>>
>
> As you have had a new belt fitted the bearings on the water pump tend to
> go, this is due to the "new" amount of pressure put on the water pump
> after the change.

I doubt that very much.

Ronald
 >> Stay informed about: Water Pump/dealership Problems A4 2.8 Quatro 

"Dana" <pperrd.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1131997869.966983.172110@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> no, it was a dealership. My car has only been to dealerships, most of
> them giving great service, but different a different story of when
> timing belt is due to be changed.
>
> I called Audi HO in Canada and she said it was due at 112,000 km (but
> according to my schedule) I do not see that. One dealership told me
> 120,000km another 168,000km.
>
> I purchased the 1999 from a dealership that said the 96,000 ("expensive
> service") was completely done.
>
> ?? I am tired of the run around.
>
Part of the problem seems to be that Audi has changed the recommended
service interval for the TB since my A4 was made in 1998. The maintenance
booklet that came with the car specifically states to change the TB every
90,000 miles in the 2.8L engine. Audi apparently no longer recommends that
long between changes of the TB - presumably because of a significant number
of failures prior to the 90,000 mile mark. Now if you decided to wait until
90,000 miles and the TB failed at 89,000 miles, you'd be fighting Audi over
who'd foot the $7,000 or more bill for engine repairs. As to why the dealer
changed the belt, you may have a case if your receipt shows clearly that
they were not to change the belt without confirming with you in the first
place. I think there was a breakdown in communication but the fact remains
that most knowledgable people on this news group not to mention those on
audiworld.com believe replacing the TB along with a failing water pump at
78,000 miles is the proper thing to do. That's not to say that Audi cannot
be faulted for a design that makes routine maintenance items so expensive to
replace.
 >> Stay informed about: Water Pump/dealership Problems A4 2.8 Quatro 

"R@L" <reply RemoveThis @usenet.com> wrote in message
news:8babf$4378f0cd$57d403fc$26990@news.versatel.nl...
>
>
> "Ronny" <Admin RemoveThis @1337hosts.com> wrote in message
> news:0uadnQ_366JXXuXenZ2dnUVZ8qSdnZ2d@pipex.net...
>>
>> "Dana" <pperrd RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1131947200.322375.273590@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>> What are the signs of a faulty water pump, my car was running great
>>> after the service (there were no temperature problems, any thing to
>>> indicate coolant was not flowing properly)
>>>
>>> Am I missing something?
>>>
>>> $1,500 is a big bill to pay when you just spent money on a complete
>>> service 2 weeks prior.
>>>
>>> Dana
>>>
>>
>> As you have had a new belt fitted the bearings on the water pump tend to
>> go, this is due to the "new" amount of pressure put on the water pump
>> after the change.
>
> I doubt that very much.
>
> Ronald
>

Why do you doubt it?

The belt previously would have stretched, the new belt being tight would
cause more load on any pullys the belt runs on.
 >> Stay informed about: Water Pump/dealership Problems A4 2.8 Quatro 

"Ronny" <Admin RemoveThis @1337hosts.com> wrote in message
news:SISdnZWPQugtnOTeRVnygQ@pipex.net...
>
> "R@L" <reply RemoveThis @usenet.com> wrote in message
> news:8babf$4378f0cd$57d403fc$26990@news.versatel.nl...
>>
>>
>> "Ronny" <Admin RemoveThis @1337hosts.com> wrote in message
>> news:0uadnQ_366JXXuXenZ2dnUVZ8qSdnZ2d@pipex.net...
>>>
>>> "Dana" <pperrd RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:1131947200.322375.273590@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>>> What are the signs of a faulty water pump, my car was running great
>>>> after the service (there were no temperature problems, any thing to
>>>> indicate coolant was not flowing properly)
>>>>
>>>> Am I missing something?
>>>>
>>>> $1,500 is a big bill to pay when you just spent money on a complete
>>>> service 2 weeks prior.
>>>>
>>>> Dana
>>>>
>>>
>>> As you have had a new belt fitted the bearings on the water pump tend to
>>> go, this is due to the "new" amount of pressure put on the water pump
>>> after the change.
>>
>> I doubt that very much.
>>
>> Ronald
>>
>
> Why do you doubt it?
>
> The belt previously would have stretched, the new belt being tight would
> cause more load on any pullys the belt runs on.
>
No, the belt does not stretch. All the notches are at the exact original
position.
No, it is not tighter since it is not tight at all, there is quite some
slack.
That's why the tensioner is there.

Water pumps sometimes last a lifetime sometimes not even 10.000 Km.
My belt came out in perfect condition after 9 years and 150.000 Km.
My serpentine was blistering but still OK.
I checked the belt every year, it's easy to spot wear.

Ronald
 >> Stay informed about: Water Pump/dealership Problems A4 2.8 Quatro 

On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 16:47:24 -0700, "Ian S" <iws51remove RemoveThis @cox.net>
wrote:

>"Dana" <pperrd RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1131997869.966983.172110@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> no, it was a dealership. My car has only been to dealerships, most of
>> them giving great service, but different a different story of when
>> timing belt is due to be changed.
>>
>> I called Audi HO in Canada and she said it was due at 112,000 km (but
>> according to my schedule) I do not see that. One dealership told me
>> 120,000km another 168,000km.
>>
>> I purchased the 1999 from a dealership that said the 96,000 ("expensive
>> service") was completely done.
>>
>> ?? I am tired of the run around.
>>
>Part of the problem seems to be that Audi has changed the recommended
>service interval for the TB since my A4 was made in 1998. The maintenance
>booklet that came with the car specifically states to change the TB every
>90,000 miles in the 2.8L engine. Audi apparently no longer recommends that
>long between changes of the TB - presumably because of a significant number
>of failures prior to the 90,000 mile mark.


My 2001 2.8L V6 calls for a timing belt replacement at 105,000 miles.
That is both in the manual and what the dealer says.
 >> Stay informed about: Water Pump/dealership Problems A4 2.8 Quatro 

Curtis, you are assuming that Audi is right! Ref. sludge issues in the
1.8t engines, caused, in part, by their 10k interval recommended oil
changes with conventional oil. They now recommend synthetic and the
first oil change at 5k, using a larger filter.

There are some things that you just need to do sooner, regardless of
what the manufacturer says. Timing belts between 60k and 80k and
frequent (3k - 5k) oil changes are just 2 of them. Sure, you can wait
until 105k, and if yours goes at 104k and ruins the engine, you can
debate with Audi for months over replacement (they will be looking for
a way to get out of it). Or you can do it between 60k and 80k and be
safe. It's up to you.

Dan D
'04 A4 1.8Tq MT-6
Central NJ USA
 >> Stay informed about: Water Pump/dealership Problems A4 2.8 Quatro 

On 15 Nov 2005 06:01:49 -0800, "Dano58" <dan.dibiase.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:

>Curtis, you are assuming that Audi is right! Ref. sludge issues in the
>1.8t engines, caused, in part, by their 10k interval recommended oil
>changes with conventional oil. They now recommend synthetic and the
>first oil change at 5k, using a larger filter.
>
>There are some things that you just need to do sooner, regardless of
>what the manufacturer says. Timing belts between 60k and 80k and
>frequent (3k - 5k) oil changes are just 2 of them. Sure, you can wait
>until 105k, and if yours goes at 104k and ruins the engine, you can
>debate with Audi for months over replacement (they will be looking for
>a way to get out of it). Or you can do it between 60k and 80k and be
>safe. It's up to you.
>


I won't disagree, in fact, I plan to have the timing belt & water pump
replaced at 80,000 miles; along with the replacement of spark plugs,
etc. I was simply stating what the manual says and what the dealer
told me on the phone about 2 weeks ago.

I am also going to have the "lifetime" transmission fluid replaced at
80,000 miles.

I also change my own oil and replace it every 5,000 miles (using
synthetic and the Audi oil filter)
 >> Stay informed about: Water Pump/dealership Problems A4 2.8 Quatro 

"R@L" <reply.TakeThisOut@usenet.com> wrote in message
news:3ed41$43790496$57d403fc$12111@news.versatel.nl...
>
> "Ronny" <Admin.TakeThisOut@1337hosts.com> wrote in message
> news:SISdnZWPQugtnOTeRVnygQ@pipex.net...
>>
>> "R@L" <reply.TakeThisOut@usenet.com> wrote in message
>> news:8babf$4378f0cd$57d403fc$26990@news.versatel.nl...
>>>
>>>
>>> "Ronny" <Admin.TakeThisOut@1337hosts.com> wrote in message
>>> news:0uadnQ_366JXXuXenZ2dnUVZ8qSdnZ2d@pipex.net...
>>>>
>>>> "Dana" <pperrd.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:1131947200.322375.273590@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> What are the signs of a faulty water pump, my car was running great
>>>>> after the service (there were no temperature problems, any thing to
>>>>> indicate coolant was not flowing properly)
>>>>>
>>>>> Am I missing something?
>>>>>
>>>>> $1,500 is a big bill to pay when you just spent money on a complete
>>>>> service 2 weeks prior.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dana
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As you have had a new belt fitted the bearings on the water pump tend
>>>> to go, this is due to the "new" amount of pressure put on the water
>>>> pump after the change.
>>>
>>> I doubt that very much.
>>>
>>> Ronald
>>>
>>
>> Why do you doubt it?
>>
>> The belt previously would have stretched, the new belt being tight would
>> cause more load on any pullys the belt runs on.
>>
> No, the belt does not stretch. All the notches are at the exact original
> position.
> No, it is not tighter since it is not tight at all, there is quite some
> slack.
> That's why the tensioner is there.
>
> Water pumps sometimes last a lifetime sometimes not even 10.000 Km.
> My belt came out in perfect condition after 9 years and 150.000 Km.
> My serpentine was blistering but still OK.
> I checked the belt every year, it's easy to spot wear.
>
> Ronald
>

There are plenty of websites around that will tell you a timing belt will
not stretch, there are also plenty that will tell you they do, whatever
happens it is common for a water pump to start to fail after the timing belt
has been replaced, I just mentioned belt stretch but it could be lot's of
other things, including incorrectly fitted belt, wrong belt, wrong length,
this is why it is recommended to change the water pump at the same time.

And you mention it is easy to spot wear, this is incorrect as it is not
easy, the belt has fibre glass inserted into it and this fibre glass becomes
brittle with heat and wear, and starts to snap "internally" so a perfectly
good belt from the outside can still be on the brink of breaking on the
inside.

Perhaps if your going to criticise peoples advice, look it up first.

The theory is the same for Aircraft manufacture, Airbus are now admitting it
will have to check each of it's tail section using other methods rather than
visual inspection, due to "internal break up" which is not noticed from the
outside, perhaps you even work for them and were the person who said "ahh it
looks ok from the outside"
 >> Stay informed about: Water Pump/dealership Problems A4 2.8 Quatro