Considering a VW even though I'm a Chevy Man

On Jul 3, 11:19 am, "HLS" <nos....RemoveThis@nospam.nix> wrote:
> "Gosi" <gos....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message news:f59193f0-3c5c-45ca-9df1-
>
> VW has moved a lot of jobs away from their most expensive UNIONIZED
> work force in Germany.
> First by introducing a lot of robots so they need a lot less people.
> Also moving to low wage countries.
>
> ***********
>
> Exactly what low wage countries are you talking about?

East europe, spain, portugal, mexico etc
 >> Stay informed about: Considering a VW even though I'm a Chevy Man 

"Gosi" <gosinn.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message news:b539e286-5b62-4dc1-8eee-
>
> Exactly what low wage countries are you talking about?

East europe, spain, portugal, mexico etc

As a matter of fact, they made them in Brasil as well. (That is where I
lived when
I owned my first Passat).

It makes sense, I guess to make those cars in countries where they are large
sellers.
And, as you say, the salaries and benefits to the workers in Germany are
expensive.

I think VW would do better in the USA if (1) they were more client oriented
and
(2) some of the quality issues (mostly electrical issues) were effectively
addressed.
 >> Stay informed about: Considering a VW even though I'm a Chevy Man 

On Jul 3, 7:04 pm, "HLS" <nos....TakeThisOut@nospam.nix> wrote:
> "Gosi" <gos....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote in message news:b539e286-5b62-4dc1-8eee-
>
> > Exactly what low wage countries are you talking about?
>
> East europe, spain, portugal, mexico etc
>
> As a matter of fact, they made them in Brasil as well.  (That is where I
> lived when
> I owned my first Passat).
>
> It makes sense, I guess to make those cars in countries where they are large
> sellers.
> And, as you say, the salaries and benefits to the workers in Germany are
> expensive.
>
> I think VW would do better in the USA if (1) they were more client oriented
> and
> (2) some of the quality issues (mostly electrical issues) were effectively
> addressed.

VW owns several other brands.
It is very interesting to visit Autostadt
http://autostadt.de/portal/site/

Volkswagen Pavillon

Seat Pavillon

Bentley Pavillon

Audi Pavillon

Lamborghini Pavillon

Škoda Pavillon
 >> Stay informed about: Considering a VW even though I'm a Chevy Man 

What had been originally said:

"get out from underneath the unions and the
obligations they have to them."

My response:

Volkswagen, a unionized company, is having record sales and profits.
" It appears that if a company has competent management and a good product,
unions are not an
issue. "

I addressed your comment. You have yet to address the facts I presented.

It often happens that the people most incensed by any pro union comment are
usually those who wish they were making a union level salary.

Have a nice day.


"Mike Marlow" <mmarlowREMOVE DeleteThis @alltel.net> wrote in message
news:41a36$486c4daf$6215af99$9110@ALLTEL.NET...
>
> "doug" <NOSPAM DeleteThis @SPAMFREE.com> wrote in message
> news:iJCdnRCCgchW0PHVnZ2dnUVZ_t3inZ2d@comcast.com...
>
>> Good idea. Go ahead and compare the benefits of the Big 3 unions to those
>> of VW's workers. They will bear out the gist of my comment, which you so
>> artfully avoided.
>>
>
> Only because you so artfully avoided what had originally been said and
> seem bent on turning this into a union vs. no union battle, when that's
> never what the original comment was about. Go ahead though - read another
> page of your union manual and convince yourself that everyone around you
> is anti-union.
>
> --
>
> -Mike-
> mmarlowREMOVE DeleteThis @alltel.net
>
 >> Stay informed about: Considering a VW even though I'm a Chevy Man 

....and critical thinking is a skill that you obviously lack.

Have a nice day.


"Mike Marlow" <mmarlowREMOVE.RemoveThis@alltel.net> wrote in message
news:4ef18$486c4d47$6215af99$8936@ALLTEL.NET...
>
> "doug" <NOSPAM.RemoveThis@SPAMFREE.com> wrote in message
> news:Uv6dnQQP8LDT0fHVnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
>> I'm the nervous one? I didn't read what you wrote? Horsefeathers. YOU
>> introduced the union element into this discussion. Reading your comments
>> again is unnecessary - you expressed yourself more clearly than even you
>> realize.
>>
>
> Reading comprehension is clearly not your strong suit.
>
> --
>
> -Mike-
> mmarlowREMOVE.RemoveThis@alltel.net
>
 >> Stay informed about: Considering a VW even though I'm a Chevy Man 

"Gosi" <gosinn.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1d0fbc1f-8ba5-45e4-9b6d-

Škoda Pavillon

The VW Skoda was one of the best bargains in my country of original choice.
Not good for resale, but high quality and inexpensive.
 >> Stay informed about: Considering a VW even though I'm a Chevy Man 

"Mike Marlow" <mmarlowREMOVE DeleteThis @alltel.net> wrote in message
news:41a36$486c4daf$6215af99$9110@ALLTEL.NET...
>
> "doug" <NOSPAM DeleteThis @SPAMFREE.com> wrote in message
> news:iJCdnRCCgchW0PHVnZ2dnUVZ_t3inZ2d@comcast.com...
>
>> Good idea. Go ahead and compare the benefits of the Big 3 unions to those
>> of VW's workers. They will bear out the gist of my comment, which you so
>> artfully avoided.
>>
>
> Only because you so artfully avoided what had originally been said and
> seem bent on turning this into a union vs. no union battle, when that's
> never what the original comment was about. Go ahead though - read another
> page of your union manual and convince yourself that everyone around you
> is anti-union.
>

Not everyone, but you obviously are.
 >> Stay informed about: Considering a VW even though I'm a Chevy Man 

"Mike Marlow" <mmarlowREMOVE.RemoveThis@alltel.net> wrote in message
news:41a36$486c4daf$6215af99$9110@ALLTEL.NET...
>
> "doug" <NOSPAM.RemoveThis@SPAMFREE.com> wrote in message
> news:iJCdnRCCgchW0PHVnZ2dnUVZ_t3inZ2d@comcast.com...
>
>> Good idea. Go ahead and compare the benefits of the Big 3 unions to those
>> of VW's workers. They will bear out the gist of my comment, which you so
>> artfully avoided.
>>
>
> Only because you so artfully avoided what had originally been said and
> seem bent on turning this into a union vs. no union battle, when that's
> never what the original comment was about.

So, why did you bring it up?

Go ahead though - read another page of
> your union manual and convince yourself that everyone around you is
> anti-union.

Not everyone, but you obviously are.
So, you advocate "get out from underneath the unions and the
obligations they have to them."? Nice philosophy you got goin' there.
I'm sure people you deal with daily appreciate the fact that you're so
quick to try to weasel out of an agreement. Hope it works for you. It
wouldn't for most.

Dave
 >> Stay informed about: Considering a VW even though I'm a Chevy Man 

"doug" <NOSPAM.RemoveThis@SPAMFREE.com> wrote in message
>
> My response:
>
> Volkswagen, a unionized company, is having record sales and profits.
> " It appears that if a company has competent management and a good
> product, unions are not an
> issue. "

Good for them. As I stated before, there are many differences between the
unions of the US car makers and others. The union itself is neither good or
bad, but contract restraints can be. I also put some of the blame on the
company as they agreed to give the house away at times. If this was 1930 I
may be pro union. Since my working career started in 1963 I've had no use
for them personally.



> It often happens that the people most incensed by any pro union comment
> are usually those who wish they were making a union level salary.


Sorry, but I could never take the pay cut. I can also think for myself,
negotiate for myself, and I certainly don't want to walk out of my job
because some slacker can't cut it on the job.. I've worked for a couple of
union companies but never had the desire to join one.

Some unions are good and honestly try to better the work environment, others
are out to make a buck and collect dues from hard working people that just
don't know any better. I've seen it up close and dealt with the union
officials.
 >> Stay informed about: Considering a VW even though I'm a Chevy Man 

On Jul 3, 10:45 pm, "HLS" <nos....RemoveThis@nospam.nix> wrote:
> "Gosi" <gos....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1d0fbc1f-8ba5-45e4-9b6d-
>
> Škoda Pavillon
>
> The VW Skoda was one of the best bargains in my country of original choice.
> Not good for resale, but high quality and inexpensive.

After VW bought Skoda the quality of the Skoda became the same as VW -
very high - but the price remained very low.
The reputation of low quality is hard to get rid of.
 >> Stay informed about: Considering a VW even though I'm a Chevy Man 

"doug" <NOSPAM DeleteThis @SPAMFREE.com> wrote in message
news:poadna7RGpCT3fDVnZ2dnUVZ_oninZ2d@comcast.com...
> What had been originally said:
>
> "get out from underneath the unions and the
> obligations they have to them."
>
> My response:
>
> Volkswagen, a unionized company, is having record sales and profits.
> " It appears that if a company has competent management and a good
> product, unions are not an
> issue. "
>
> I addressed your comment. You have yet to address the facts I presented.

I addressed your response which was all about what you felt was a need to
set the record straight. The fact of the matter is that GM is bogged down
by years of two things - bad management practices (as I stated originally)
and bad union agreements. Both of those were survivable during banner
decades, but both of those are equally burdensome to a company in difficult
times. Both are equally responsible for their share of those difficult
times. It's one thing to live high in good times and more power to both
union members and management if they can do so. It's an entirely different
thing to stand fast on terms and practices which are refelective of the good
times, when things aren't so good. Say what you will but the obligations
that the automakers have to their unions (active and retired) is as costly
to GM as their good old boys management style.

>
> It often happens that the people most incensed by any pro union comment
> are usually those who wish they were making a union level salary.

Perhaps, but in this case I assure you - not the case. I am neither
incensed, nor would I wish to lower my income level to that point.


--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE DeleteThis @alltel.net
 >> Stay informed about: Considering a VW even though I'm a Chevy Man 

"Hairy" <hairy RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6d5fttFv83sU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> "Mike Marlow" <mmarlowREMOVE RemoveThis @alltel.net> wrote in message
> news:41a36$486c4daf$6215af99$9110@ALLTEL.NET...
>>
>> "doug" <NOSPAM RemoveThis @SPAMFREE.com> wrote in message
>> news:iJCdnRCCgchW0PHVnZ2dnUVZ_t3inZ2d@comcast.com...
>>
>>> Good idea. Go ahead and compare the benefits of the Big 3 unions to
>>> those of VW's workers. They will bear out the gist of my comment, which
>>> you so artfully avoided.
>>>
>>
>> Only because you so artfully avoided what had originally been said and
>> seem bent on turning this into a union vs. no union battle, when that's
>> never what the original comment was about. Go ahead though - read
>> another page of your union manual and convince yourself that everyone
>> around you is anti-union.
>>
>
> Not everyone, but you obviously are.
>

I have no need for a union in my life, but I'm not anti-union. My original
point put the weight equally on the shoulders of GM management and
obligations GM has to union contracts. Hardly seems anti-union to me.

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE RemoveThis @alltel.net
 >> Stay informed about: Considering a VW even though I'm a Chevy Man 

"Hairy" <hairy.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6d5gsdF10290U1@mid.individual.net...
>
> "Mike Marlow" <mmarlowREMOVE.RemoveThis@alltel.net> wrote in message
> news:41a36$486c4daf$6215af99$9110@ALLTEL.NET...
>>
>> "doug" <NOSPAM.RemoveThis@SPAMFREE.com> wrote in message
>> news:iJCdnRCCgchW0PHVnZ2dnUVZ_t3inZ2d@comcast.com...
>>
>>> Good idea. Go ahead and compare the benefits of the Big 3 unions to
>>> those of VW's workers. They will bear out the gist of my comment, which
>>> you so artfully avoided.
>>>
>>
>> Only because you so artfully avoided what had originally been said and
>> seem bent on turning this into a union vs. no union battle, when that's
>> never what the original comment was about.
>
> So, why did you bring it up?

You cannot understand the difference between discussing the weight of
something like union contracts on a company, and the practice of union
bashing?

>
> Go ahead though - read another page of
>> your union manual and convince yourself that everyone around you is
>> anti-union.
>
> Not everyone, but you obviously are.
> So, you advocate "get out from underneath the unions and the
> obligations they have to them."? Nice philosophy you got goin' there.
> I'm sure people you deal with daily appreciate the fact that you're so
> quick to try to weasel out of an agreement. Hope it works for you. It
> wouldn't for most.
>

Contracts are renegotiated periodically. Surely you can understand there
are opportunities presented for changes and adjustments at these times. Why
do you assume (rather foolishly) that I suggest "weaseling" out of any
agreement? You need to take your union blinders off and look around at the
world of options that exist out here in reality.

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE.RemoveThis@alltel.net
 >> Stay informed about: Considering a VW even though I'm a Chevy Man