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External
Since: Apr 17, 2008
Posts: 18
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:30 am
Post subject: Considering a VW even though I'm a Chevy Man  Add to elertz
Archived from groups: alt>autos>gm (more info?)
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While it appears GM and the big 3 in general aren't going to offer truly
fuel efficient hybrids (other than the Ford Escape, but even that isn't
stellar) I've been checking into and seriously considering a VW Jetta TDI
(diesel) which can easily produce 45plus MPG with NO worries about battery
life etc...
The TDI diesel produces the best gas mileage of any non hybrid auto offered
in the US. With that thought in mind, I just read that VW has a hybrid in
the works, using the diesel engine along with batteries, and preliminary
results suggest it will be capable of 65 mpg or possibly higher. That would
best the Prius numbers by a long shot and make it the most fuel efficient
vehicle in the US. Wouldn't it be interesting if VW suddenly rose to the
top of the heap while the big 3 all scratch their heads and try to figure
out how to transition from trucks to fuel efficient cars??? (and I own two
Chevy's, so I'm not anti GM)
A very interesting concept IMHO, and I'm anxious to see how it works out.
Willy |
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External
Since: Jan 04, 2008
Posts: 26
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Considering a VW even though I'm a Chevy Man Add to elertz [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Willy" <wesk DeleteThis @prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:ShMak.11938$jI5.3220@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com...
| While it appears GM and the big 3 in general aren't going to offer
truly
| fuel efficient hybrids (other than the Ford Escape, but even that
isn't
| stellar) I've been checking into and seriously considering a VW Jetta
TDI
| (diesel) which can easily produce 45plus MPG with NO worries about
battery
| life etc...
|
| The TDI diesel produces the best gas mileage of any non hybrid auto
offered
| in the US. With that thought in mind, I just read that VW has a
hybrid in
| the works, using the diesel engine along with batteries, and
preliminary
| results suggest it will be capable of 65 mpg or possibly higher. That
would
| best the Prius numbers by a long shot and make it the most fuel
efficient
| vehicle in the US. Wouldn't it be interesting if VW suddenly rose to
the
| top of the heap while the big 3 all scratch their heads and try to
figure
| out how to transition from trucks to fuel efficient cars??? (and I
own two
| Chevy's, so I'm not anti GM)
|
| A very interesting concept IMHO, and I'm anxious to see how it works
out.
|
| Willy
|
Me too! We lost our VW dealership some years ago. Not sure how far I
have to travel to see one.
--
Anyolmouse
---- Posted via Pronews.com - Premium Corporate Usenet News Provider ----
http://www.pronews.com offers corporate packages that have access to 100,000+ newsgroups |
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External
Since: Oct 26, 2005
Posts: 669
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:24 pm
Post subject: Re: Considering a VW even though I'm a Chevy Man Add to elertz [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Willy" <wesk.DeleteThis@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:ShMak.11938$jI5.3220@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com...
> While it appears GM and the big 3 in general aren't going to offer truly
> fuel efficient hybrids (other than the Ford Escape, but even that isn't
> stellar) I've been checking into and seriously considering a VW Jetta TDI
> (diesel) which can easily produce 45plus MPG with NO worries about battery
> life etc...
>
> The TDI diesel produces the best gas mileage of any non hybrid auto
> offered in the US. With that thought in mind, I just read that VW has a
> hybrid in the works, using the diesel engine along with batteries, and
> preliminary results suggest it will be capable of 65 mpg or possibly
> higher. That would best the Prius numbers by a long shot and make it the
> most fuel efficient vehicle in the US. Wouldn't it be interesting if VW
> suddenly rose to the top of the heap while the big 3 all scratch their
> heads and try to figure out how to transition from trucks to fuel
> efficient cars??? (and I own two Chevy's, so I'm not anti GM)
>
I don't think it's a matter of GM not understanding how to transition from
trucks to high mileage cars. They've been building more 30mpg cars than
anyone else for a long time. Re-tooling to meet new market demands will
take them some time and effort, and no time in GM's life could be worse than
the present for that kind of effort, but that's not the big issue in my
opinion. GM has to figure out how to get out of the old school mindset for
how they run their company, and get out from underneath the unions and the
obligations they have to them.
--
-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE.DeleteThis@alltel.net >> Stay informed about: Considering a VW even though I'm a Chevy Man |
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External
Since: Jan 31, 2005
Posts: 136
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:24 pm
Post subject: Re: Considering a VW even though I'm a Chevy Man Add to elertz [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Mike Marlow" <mmarlowREMOVE.TakeThisOut@alltel.net> wrote in message news:6cf45
>
> I don't think it's a matter of GM not understanding how to transition from
> trucks to high mileage cars. They've been building more 30mpg cars than
> anyone else for a long time. Re-tooling to meet new market demands will
> take them some time and effort, and no time in GM's life could be worse
> than the present for that kind of effort, but that's not the big issue in
> my opinion. GM has to figure out how to get out of the old school mindset
> for how they run their company, and get out from underneath the unions and
> the obligations they have to them.
> -Mike-
Well said..
On the stock report just a few minutes ago, GM apparently made an
announcement that
they think they have enough working capital for 2008, but bankruptcy is not
out of the
question, if I understood correctly.
Of course, a bankruptcy would not necessarily nor even probably be the end
of GM.
It would just put them into reorganization, I guess, and the stockholders
would take
the "last tango in Paris". >> Stay informed about: Considering a VW even though I'm a Chevy Man |
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External
Since: Nov 03, 2007
Posts: 324
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Considering a VW even though I'm a Chevy Man Add to elertz [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
Willy wrote:
> While it appears GM and the big 3 in general aren't going to offer truly
> fuel efficient hybrids (other than the Ford Escape, but even that isn't
> stellar) I've been checking into and seriously considering a VW Jetta
> TDI (diesel) which can easily produce 45plus MPG with NO worries about
> battery life etc...
>
> The TDI diesel produces the best gas mileage of any non hybrid auto
> offered in the US. With that thought in mind, I just read that VW has a
> hybrid in the works, using the diesel engine along with batteries, and
> preliminary results suggest it will be capable of 65 mpg or possibly
> higher. That would best the Prius numbers by a long shot and make it
> the most fuel efficient vehicle in the US. Wouldn't it be interesting
> if VW suddenly rose to the top of the heap while the big 3 all scratch
> their heads and try to figure out how to transition from trucks to fuel
> efficient cars??? (and I own two Chevy's, so I'm not anti GM)
>
> A very interesting concept IMHO, and I'm anxious to see how it works out.
>
> Willy
Buy a TDI, you won't regret it. Pretty much any modern VW feels like a
luxury car next to a GM product. They really have done a great job
making an inexpensive car still feel like one that you can be proud to
own and drive.
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel >> Stay informed about: Considering a VW even though I'm a Chevy Man |
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External
Since: Jan 31, 2005
Posts: 136
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Considering a VW even though I'm a Chevy Man Add to elertz [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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|
|
"Nate Nagel" <njnagel.DeleteThis@roosters.net> wrote in message
> Buy a TDI, you won't regret it. Pretty much any modern VW feels like a
> luxury car next to a GM product. They really have done a great job making
> an inexpensive car still feel like one that you can be proud to own and
> drive.
>
> nate
I have owned two Passats.. Both were spectacular cars. I have heard that
some
had poorer than normal electical systems, but neither of mine exhibited this
characteristic.
The Jetta is supposed to be very nice. >> Stay informed about: Considering a VW even though I'm a Chevy Man |
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External
Since: Dec 15, 2005
Posts: 28
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Considering a VW even though I'm a Chevy Man Add to elertz [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
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Mike Marlow wrote:
>GM has to figure out how to get out of the old school mindset for how they
>run their company, and get out from underneath the unions and the
>obligations they have to them.
FWIW
Taken from http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/feb/29/volkswagen.cars
"Volkswagen, Europe's largest car-maker, tonight posted record pre-tax
profits for 2007 of €6.5bn (£5bn), easily beating market forecasts, and
predicted a new milestone in earnings this year."
What's my point? Volkswagen has a UNIONIZED work force. It appears that if
a company has competent management and a good product, unions are not an
issue. BTW - their workers' benefits are more extensive than those of UAW
members. So please, to all of you union bashers out there, stop blaming
unions for Detroit's shortcomings. Have a nice day.
"Mike Marlow" <mmarlowREMOVE DeleteThis @alltel.net> wrote in message
news:6cf45$486be30a$6215af99$20430@ALLTEL.NET...
>
> "Willy" <wesk DeleteThis @prodigy.net> wrote in message
> news:ShMak.11938$jI5.3220@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com...
>> While it appears GM and the big 3 in general aren't going to offer truly
>> fuel efficient hybrids (other than the Ford Escape, but even that isn't
>> stellar) I've been checking into and seriously considering a VW Jetta TDI
>> (diesel) which can easily produce 45plus MPG with NO worries about
>> battery life etc...
>>
>> The TDI diesel produces the best gas mileage of any non hybrid auto
>> offered in the US. With that thought in mind, I just read that VW has a
>> hybrid in the works, using the diesel engine along with batteries, and
>> preliminary results suggest it will be capable of 65 mpg or possibly
>> higher. That would best the Prius numbers by a long shot and make it the
>> most fuel efficient vehicle in the US. Wouldn't it be interesting if VW
>> suddenly rose to the top of the heap while the big 3 all scratch their
>> heads and try to figure out how to transition from trucks to fuel
>> efficient cars??? (and I own two Chevy's, so I'm not anti GM)
>>
>
> I don't think it's a matter of GM not understanding how to transition from
> trucks to high mileage cars. They've been building more 30mpg cars than
> anyone else for a long time. Re-tooling to meet new market demands will
> take them some time and effort, and no time in GM's life could be worse
> than the present for that kind of effort, but that's not the big issue in
> my opinion. GM has to figure out how to get out of the old school mindset
> for how they run their company, and get out from underneath the unions and
> the obligations they have to them.
>
> --
>
> -Mike-
> mmarlowREMOVE DeleteThis @alltel.net
> >> Stay informed about: Considering a VW even though I'm a Chevy Man |
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External
Since: Jan 01, 2005
Posts: 1154
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Considering a VW even though I'm a Chevy Man Add to elertz [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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|
|
"doug" <NOSPAM RemoveThis @SPAMFREE.com> wrote in message
>
> What's my point? Volkswagen has a UNIONIZED work force. It appears that
> if a company has competent management and a good product, unions are not
> an issue. BTW - their workers' benefits are more extensive than those of
> UAW members. So please, to all of you union bashers out there, stop
> blaming unions for Detroit's shortcomings. Have a nice day.
>
The fact that they have a union is not the issue. It is what some (not all)
unions have for wages and benefits and work rules. For many years the auto
makers gave the unions many concessions to avoid a strike and just added
that cost to the price of a car and the beat went on. Before making one
line proclamations, do a side by side comparison of not only wages, but work
rules and productivity. >> Stay informed about: Considering a VW even though I'm a Chevy Man |
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External
Since: Jan 01, 2005
Posts: 1154
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Considering a VW even though I'm a Chevy Man Add to elertz [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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|
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"Willy" <wesk.TakeThisOut@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:ShMak.11938$jI5.3220@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com...
> While it appears GM and the big 3 in general aren't going to offer truly
> fuel efficient hybrids (other than the Ford Escape, but even that isn't
> stellar) I've been checking into and seriously considering a VW Jetta TDI
> (diesel) which can easily produce 45plus MPG with NO worries about battery
> life etc...
But at about $1 a gallon more than gas, you have to get more mpg to have the
same driving cost per mile. Be sure to factor that in for a proper
comparison. At prices here in town, that diesel is 11.5¢ per mile while a
gas powered car needs only 37 mpg for that same cost. So, it may or may not
be a good deal. >> Stay informed about: Considering a VW even though I'm a Chevy Man |
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External
Since: Oct 26, 2005
Posts: 669
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Considering a VW even though I'm a Chevy Man Add to elertz [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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|
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"doug" <NOSPAM.RemoveThis@SPAMFREE.com> wrote in message
news:JOWdndd-75PbgPHVnZ2dnUVZ_sHinZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> What's my point? Volkswagen has a UNIONIZED work force. It appears that
> if a company has competent management and a good product, unions are not
> an issue. BTW - their workers' benefits are more extensive than those of
> UAW members. So please, to all of you union bashers out there, stop
> blaming unions for Detroit's shortcomings. Have a nice day.
>
You did not read my post very well before you got all nervous about the
union comment. Instead of repeating myself, I'll just ask you to go back
and read what I wrote again.
--
-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE.RemoveThis@alltel.net >> Stay informed about: Considering a VW even though I'm a Chevy Man |
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External
Since: Dec 15, 2005
Posts: 28
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Considering a VW even though I'm a Chevy Man Add to elertz [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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I'm the nervous one? I didn't read what you wrote? Horsefeathers. YOU
introduced the union element into this discussion. Reading your comments
again is unnecessary - you expressed yourself more clearly than even you
realize.
"Mike Marlow" <mmarlowREMOVE RemoveThis @alltel.net> wrote in message
news:a6bda$486c4408$6215af99$4974@ALLTEL.NET...
>
> "doug" <NOSPAM RemoveThis @SPAMFREE.com> wrote in message
> news:JOWdndd-75PbgPHVnZ2dnUVZ_sHinZ2d@comcast.com...
>
>>
>> What's my point? Volkswagen has a UNIONIZED work force. It appears that
>> if a company has competent management and a good product, unions are not
>> an issue. BTW - their workers' benefits are more extensive than those of
>> UAW members. So please, to all of you union bashers out there, stop
>> blaming unions for Detroit's shortcomings. Have a nice day.
>>
>
> You did not read my post very well before you got all nervous about the
> union comment. Instead of repeating myself, I'll just ask you to go back
> and read what I wrote again.
>
> --
>
> -Mike-
> mmarlowREMOVE RemoveThis @alltel.net
> >> Stay informed about: Considering a VW even though I'm a Chevy Man |
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External
Since: Dec 15, 2005
Posts: 28
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Considering a VW even though I'm a Chevy Man Add to elertz [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Good idea. Go ahead and compare the benefits of the Big 3 unions to those of
VW's workers. They will bear out the gist of my comment, which you so
artfully avoided.
"Edwin Pawlowski" <esp.TakeThisOut@snet.net> wrote in message
news:EJVak.6268$LG4.3020@nlpi065.nbdc.sbc.com...
>
> "doug" <NOSPAM.TakeThisOut@SPAMFREE.com> wrote in message
>>
>> What's my point? Volkswagen has a UNIONIZED work force. It appears that
>> if a company has competent management and a good product, unions are not
>> an issue. BTW - their workers' benefits are more extensive than those of
>> UAW members. So please, to all of you union bashers out there, stop
>> blaming unions for Detroit's shortcomings. Have a nice day.
>>
>
> The fact that they have a union is not the issue. It is what some (not
> all) unions have for wages and benefits and work rules. For many years
> the auto makers gave the unions many concessions to avoid a strike and
> just added that cost to the price of a car and the beat went on. Before
> making one line proclamations, do a side by side comparison of not only
> wages, but work rules and productivity.
> >> Stay informed about: Considering a VW even though I'm a Chevy Man |
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External
Since: Apr 19, 2007
Posts: 70
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:03 am
Post subject: Re: Considering a VW even though I'm a Chevy Man Add to elertz [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Jul 3, 12:30 am, "doug" <NOS... RemoveThis @SPAMFREE.com> wrote:
> What's my point? Volkswagen has a UNIONIZED work force. It appears that if
> a company has competent management and a good product, unions are not an
> issue. BTW - their workers' benefits are more extensive than those of UAW
> members. So please, to all of you union bashers out there, stop blaming
> unions for Detroit's shortcomings. Have a nice day.
VW has moved a lot of jobs away from their most expensive UNIONIZED
work force in Germany.
First by introducing a lot of robots so they need a lot less people.
Also moving to low wage countries. >> Stay informed about: Considering a VW even though I'm a Chevy Man |
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External
Since: Oct 26, 2005
Posts: 669
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:16 am
Post subject: Re: Considering a VW even though I'm a Chevy Man Add to elertz [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"doug" <NOSPAM.RemoveThis@SPAMFREE.com> wrote in message
news:Uv6dnQQP8LDT0fHVnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@comcast.com...
> I'm the nervous one? I didn't read what you wrote? Horsefeathers. YOU
> introduced the union element into this discussion. Reading your comments
> again is unnecessary - you expressed yourself more clearly than even you
> realize.
>
Reading comprehension is clearly not your strong suit.
--
-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE.RemoveThis@alltel.net >> Stay informed about: Considering a VW even though I'm a Chevy Man |
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Since: Oct 26, 2005
Posts: 669
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:18 am
Post subject: Re: Considering a VW even though I'm a Chevy Man Add to elertz [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"doug" <NOSPAM.RemoveThis@SPAMFREE.com> wrote in message
news:iJCdnRCCgchW0PHVnZ2dnUVZ_t3inZ2d@comcast.com...
> Good idea. Go ahead and compare the benefits of the Big 3 unions to those
> of VW's workers. They will bear out the gist of my comment, which you so
> artfully avoided.
>
Only because you so artfully avoided what had originally been said and seem
bent on turning this into a union vs. no union battle, when that's never
what the original comment was about. Go ahead though - read another page of
your union manual and convince yourself that everyone around you is
anti-union.
--
-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE.RemoveThis@alltel.net >> Stay informed about: Considering a VW even though I'm a Chevy Man |
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