Update: 2008 Outback Steering Wheel Off Center

<fly1747.TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote in message
news:d41541e6-37e6-4247-8790-2c4c9f516da5@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>I just picked the car up from the dealer. Unfortunatley the tech who
> worked on the car was not there and the service manager did not know
> anything about it.
>
> The car still has the same problem. Straight wheel and the car drifts
> right, more noticeable at highway speeds then doing 25 mph. Just too
> make sure I was not being paranoid I took a family members 2008
> Outback with 2000 miles on the same exact roads and the car tracked
> straight with the steering wheel straight besides following the crown
> of the road on occasion.
>
> With my car if I am doing 70 mph and I want to change lanes to the
> right, all I need to do is to center the wheel and the car goes right
> into the other lane. Mind you, the offset of the wheel to the left is
> not very noticeable but becomes apparent when you center the wheel
> dead center and the car will change lanes to the right lane quickly.
>
> This is what the dealer stated on the form:
> Ensure proper inflation of tires and cross front tires to correct
> radial tire pull. Vehicle tracks straight and does not drift. Advise
> owner vehicle will follow crown of road, operation meets design
> intent.
>
>
> Now what shoule I do? I do not want to do back to that dealer. Is a
> call to Subaru NA neccesary on Monday morning?
>
> Thanks for all the help everyone,
>
> Matt

Matt,

I agree with the people that replied about the tie rod adjustment. This
will make the wheel off center, but alignment show being correct. I had a
1984 Chevrolet Chevette with the same issue. I drove it that way for 5 years
with the wheel tilted. Worked out because I mounted a tach and with the
wheel at that angle, it was easier to see the tach. Made lemonade out of a
lemon.

Today most cars have steering wheels that only look right if they are
correctly oriented. I would want mine right also. I have heard of this
problem before. Normally when someone has the toe adjusted and now the
steering wheel is off. Most shops have people skilled enough to correct
this at least after the first time you return.

Normally it is a matter of doing the alignment with the steering wheel
centered and held or locked in the center position.

I check for center on the interstate. The car should pull equally, wheel
centered, to the right in the right lane, and equally left in the left lane,
this is normal. If it pulls the same direction on both sides of the road
crown, it is off.

The only options I see, is to educate the current dealer, try another
dealer, or contact Subaru. I wouldn't want to pay for this correction on a
new car.

Blair
 >> Stay informed about: Update: 2008 Outback Steering Wheel Off Center 

Go back. Have mechanic ride with you on flat road. Center wheel.
Observe face of mechanic as you drive toward shoulder. Request that
he fix it. (worked for me!)


On Jan 19, 12:09 pm, fly1....DeleteThis@aol.com wrote:
> I just picked the car up from the dealer.  Unfortunatley the tech who
> worked on the car was not there and the service manager did not know
> anything about it.
>
> The car still has the same problem.  Straight wheel and the car drifts
> right, more noticeable at highway speeds then doing 25 mph.  Just too
> make sure I was not being paranoid I took a family members 2008
> Outback with 2000 miles on the same exact roads and the car tracked
> straight with the steering wheel straight besides following the crown
> of the road on occasion.
>
> With my car if I am doing 70 mph and I want to change lanes to the
> right, all I need to do is to center the wheel and the car goes right
> into the other lane.  Mind you, the offset of the wheel to the left is
> not very noticeable but becomes apparent when you center the wheel
> dead center and the car will change lanes to the right lane quickly.
>
> This is what the dealer stated on the form:
> Ensure proper inflation of tires and cross front tires to correct
> radial tire pull.  Vehicle tracks straight and does not drift.  Advise
> owner vehicle will follow crown of road, operation meets design
> intent.
>
> Now what shoule I do?  I do not want to do back to that dealer.  Is a
> call to Subaru NA neccesary on Monday morning?
>
> Thanks for all the help everyone,
>
> Matt
 >> Stay informed about: Update: 2008 Outback Steering Wheel Off Center 

They can remove steering wheel and then reinstall it centered!!!


On Jan 19, 3:39 pm, "Blair Baucom" <jbbau... RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
> <fly1... RemoveThis @aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:d41541e6-37e6-4247-8790-2c4c9f516da5@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> >I just picked the car up from the dealer.  Unfortunatley the tech who
> > worked on the car was not there and the service manager did not know
> > anything about it.
>
> > The car still has the same problem.  Straight wheel and the car drifts
> > right, more noticeable at highway speeds then doing 25 mph.  Just too
> > make sure I was not being paranoid I took a family members 2008
> > Outback with 2000 miles on the same exact roads and the car tracked
> > straight with the steering wheel straight besides following the crown
> > of the road on occasion.
>
> > With my car if I am doing 70 mph and I want to change lanes to the
> > right, all I need to do is to center the wheel and the car goes right
> > into the other lane.  Mind you, the offset of the wheel to the left is
> > not very noticeable but becomes apparent when you center the wheel
> > dead center and the car will change lanes to the right lane quickly.
>
> > This is what the dealer stated on the form:
> > Ensure proper inflation of tires and cross front tires to correct
> > radial tire pull.  Vehicle tracks straight and does not drift.  Advise
> > owner vehicle will follow crown of road, operation meets design
> > intent.
>
> > Now what shoule I do?  I do not want to do back to that dealer.  Is a
> > call to Subaru NA neccesary on Monday morning?
>
> > Thanks for all the help everyone,
>
> > Matt
>
> Matt,
>
>     I agree with the people that replied about the tie rod adjustment. This
> will make the wheel off center, but alignment show being correct. I had a
> 1984 Chevrolet Chevette with the same issue. I drove it that way for 5 years
> with the wheel tilted. Worked out because I mounted a tach and with the
> wheel at that angle, it was easier to see the tach. Made lemonade out of a
> lemon.
>
>     Today most cars have steering wheels that only look right if they are
> correctly oriented. I would want mine right also. I have heard of this
> problem before. Normally when someone has the toe adjusted and now the
> steering  wheel is off. Most shops have people skilled enough to correct
> this at least after the first time you return.
>
>     Normally it is a matter of doing the alignment with the steering wheel
> centered and held or locked in the center position.
>
>     I check for center on the interstate. The car should pull equally, wheel
> centered, to the right in the right lane, and equally left in the left lane,
> this is normal. If it pulls the same direction on both sides of the road
> crown, it is off.
>
>     The only options I see, is to educate the current dealer, try another
> dealer, or contact Subaru. I wouldn't want to pay for this correction on a
> new car.
>
> Blair- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
 >> Stay informed about: Update: 2008 Outback Steering Wheel Off Center 

> It only drifts right when

IMO, lose that language. The car doesn't drift, the problem is that the
steering wheel is misaligned. Two very different things, so don't confuse
the service people unnecessarily.

-John O
 >> Stay informed about: Update: 2008 Outback Steering Wheel Off Center 

Dear Matt:

I agree with Fred (...with a name like his he must be right! <g>). I
suggested this to you already, Matt...avoid the communication issue! You sit
in the passenger seat with the service manager driving and with the
technician, the technician's dog and anyone else from the dealership who you
can squeeze in sitting in the car with you and *show* them the problem! It
really does seem to me that there is a problem in communication here...

--
Fred Boer - Amateur Access Enthusiast
Interests: Library software / Z39.50 / Web Services
Freeware Small Library Application available here:
http://www3.sympatico.ca/lornarourke/


"Fred" <davidmrusso.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a8cc5fc4-8438-4284-86fc-5c138932d344@1g2000hsl.googlegroups.com...
Go back. Have mechanic ride with you on flat road. Center wheel.
Observe face of mechanic as you drive toward shoulder. Request that
he fix it. (worked for me!)


On Jan 19, 12:09 pm, fly1....DeleteThis@aol.com wrote:
> I just picked the car up from the dealer. Unfortunatley the tech who
> worked on the car was not there and the service manager did not know
> anything about it.
>
> The car still has the same problem. Straight wheel and the car drifts
> right, more noticeable at highway speeds then doing 25 mph. Just too
> make sure I was not being paranoid I took a family members 2008
> Outback with 2000 miles on the same exact roads and the car tracked
> straight with the steering wheel straight besides following the crown
> of the road on occasion.
>
> With my car if I am doing 70 mph and I want to change lanes to the
> right, all I need to do is to center the wheel and the car goes right
> into the other lane. Mind you, the offset of the wheel to the left is
> not very noticeable but becomes apparent when you center the wheel
> dead center and the car will change lanes to the right lane quickly.
>
> This is what the dealer stated on the form:
> Ensure proper inflation of tires and cross front tires to correct
> radial tire pull. Vehicle tracks straight and does not drift. Advise
> owner vehicle will follow crown of road, operation meets design
> intent.
>
> Now what shoule I do? I do not want to do back to that dealer. Is a
> call to Subaru NA neccesary on Monday morning?
>
> Thanks for all the help everyone,
>
> Matt
 >> Stay informed about: Update: 2008 Outback Steering Wheel Off Center 

OK, IF the car has a drift AND the alighnment is true, then swap the fr
tires with eack other. IF the car drifts the other way its call radial tire
pull- replace the tires.
People are concitrating on the wheel/toe setting and the drift. These are
two seperate items. Toe will not cause a drift. Tire wear and off center
wheel but not a pull/drift
Do you have a copy of the alighnment specs? I would like to see the numbers

Now for a update for all about alighnments and procedures.

Several years ago Hunter came out with "WINTOE" and you no longer have to
lock the steering wheel down.
After the camber and caster is set you select "wintoe"
The alighnment machine asks you to place the wheel in the centered position.
press "OK" The machene takes a snapshot of the heads and memorises where
things are. Now even if you were to move the steering wheel it wouldent
care.
You set the right tie rod, press ok, then the left, then ok. set the picture
where it asks and check the steering wheel, it should be centered, and
useally is. I have had one comeback sence using win toe, and I think it was
just how he looked at the s/wheel. I had the customer set in the car and
place the wheel where he wanted it. he was then happy with the results


--
Steve
ASE Master Tech
L1 Diag
Currently residing at a Subaru Shop
4.5 years doing tires and alighnments
 >> Stay informed about: Update: 2008 Outback Steering Wheel Off Center 

fly1747.DeleteThis@aol.com wrote:
> I just picked the car up from the dealer. Unfortunatley the tech who
> worked on the car was not there and the service manager did not know
> anything about it.
>
> The car still has the same problem. Straight wheel and the car drifts
> right, more noticeable at highway speeds then doing 25 mph. Just too
> make sure I was not being paranoid I took a family members 2008
> Outback with 2000 miles on the same exact roads and the car tracked
> straight with the steering wheel straight besides following the crown
> of the road on occasion.
>
> With my car if I am doing 70 mph and I want to change lanes to the
> right, all I need to do is to center the wheel and the car goes right
> into the other lane. Mind you, the offset of the wheel to the left is
> not very noticeable but becomes apparent when you center the wheel
> dead center and the car will change lanes to the right lane quickly.
>
> This is what the dealer stated on the form:
> Ensure proper inflation of tires and cross front tires to correct
> radial tire pull. Vehicle tracks straight and does not drift. Advise
> owner vehicle will follow crown of road, operation meets design
> intent.
>
>
> Now what shoule I do? I do not want to do back to that dealer. Is a
> call to Subaru NA neccesary on Monday morning?
>
> Thanks for all the help everyone,
>
> Matt

Does the car 'drift' to the right when traveling down a straight "flat"
(no crown) road when you take the hands off the steering wheel or does
it 'drift' only when you try to centre the steering wheel?
 >> Stay informed about: Update: 2008 Outback Steering Wheel Off Center 

My suggestion is, do not go back to the same dealer. They have proven
they do not care about your problem, if they did, your problem would be
gone by now.

I would not call Subaru unless this one is the only dealer in town.

Good luck

StephenW wrote:
> OK, IF the car has a drift AND the alighnment is true, then swap the fr
> tires with eack other. IF the car drifts the other way its call radial tire
> pull- replace the tires.
> People are concitrating on the wheel/toe setting and the drift. These are
> two seperate items. Toe will not cause a drift. Tire wear and off center
> wheel but not a pull/drift
> Do you have a copy of the alighnment specs? I would like to see the numbers
>
> Now for a update for all about alighnments and procedures.
>
> Several years ago Hunter came out with "WINTOE" and you no longer have to
> lock the steering wheel down.
> After the camber and caster is set you select "wintoe"
> The alighnment machine asks you to place the wheel in the centered position.
> press "OK" The machene takes a snapshot of the heads and memorises where
> things are. Now even if you were to move the steering wheel it wouldent
> care.
> You set the right tie rod, press ok, then the left, then ok. set the picture
> where it asks and check the steering wheel, it should be centered, and
> useally is. I have had one comeback sence using win toe, and I think it was
> just how he looked at the s/wheel. I had the customer set in the car and
> place the wheel where he wanted it. he was then happy with the results
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Update: 2008 Outback Steering Wheel Off Center 

fly1747 DeleteThis @aol.com wrote:
> Hi,
> It only drifts right when I try to straigten the wheel. Otherwise it
> tracks fines.
>
> Thanks for the reply,
> Matt

Take it back.

Get them to lock the steering wheel into the straight ahead position
first; *then* go underneath, undo both the tierod ends and start again.



PS, My daughter had a tireshop, seen it all before.
 >> Stay informed about: Update: 2008 Outback Steering Wheel Off Center 

Bugalugs wrote:
> fly1747 DeleteThis @aol.com wrote:
>> Hi,
>> It only drifts right when I try to straigten the wheel. Otherwise it
>> tracks fines.
>>
>> Thanks for the reply,
>> Matt
>
> Take it back.
>
> Get them to lock the steering wheel into the straight ahead position
> first; *then* go underneath, undo both the tierod ends and start again.
>
>
>
> PS, My daughter had a tireshop, seen it all before.

FWIW I'm with bugalug and others who recommend locking the steering
wheel *then* doing the alignment. The symptoms you describe fit with a
steering wheel that is not centered with the wheel alignment.
If I had anything to add besides seconding bugalug's theory it would be
that there is a communication breakdown somewhere between your
experience and what the mechanic is being asked to do. May I suggest
that you take a different approach when describing the problem.

Maybe describe it as: The car tracks straight (i.e. wheels are aligned),
but the steering wheel is off center/crooked (i.e. tie-rod ends are
equally and oppositely out of adjustment).

I'm not an expert on alignment (just an automobile driver with an
interest in Subarus), but the beyond the problem with the car it sounds
like there is a communication problem.

hope you get some results,

Max
 >> Stay informed about: Update: 2008 Outback Steering Wheel Off Center 

Thanks everyone for the help,

I talked to Subaru of NA and they are now involved. I am going to
drop the car off at another dealership this Friday and go from there.
Subaru of NA has been informed of the exact problem and they will call
the dealership.

Both front tires were swaped and the car will still drift right with a
centered steering wheel.

Thanks.
Matt
 >> Stay informed about: Update: 2008 Outback Steering Wheel Off Center 

I grew up rather poor in the 60s. When I finally got a few years old
enough to pay attention to things around me, the used car my dad was
driving, as I recall, had a large problem with the steering wheel
"alignment." The steering wheel was turned about 1/4 turn or something
from straight up when you were driving straight. Apart from this the
steering was normal (as I recall.) Not knowing any better, I assumed
this was normal, and there was no "correct" orientation for the steering
wheel. It took me many years before I realized that this was not
normal.
If you don't know any better,
sometimes it's not a problem.
 >> Stay informed about: Update: 2008 Outback Steering Wheel Off Center 

On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 12:18:25 -0600, Petepenguin DeleteThis @webtv.net (P T) wrote:

>I grew up rather poor in the 60s. When I finally got a few years old
>enough to pay attention to things around me, the used car my dad was
>driving, as I recall, had a large problem with the steering wheel
>"alignment." The steering wheel was turned about 1/4 turn or something
>from straight up when you were driving straight. Apart from this the
>steering was normal (as I recall.) Not knowing any better, I assumed
>this was normal, and there was no "correct" orientation for the steering
>wheel. It took me many years before I realized that this was not
>normal.
>If you don't know any better,
>sometimes it's not a problem.

I don't see what the big deal is. You don't LOOK at the steering
wheel while driving, right? At least I hope not.
 >> Stay informed about: Update: 2008 Outback Steering Wheel Off Center