Underbody AC lines for rear air

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 >> Stay informed about: Underbody AC lines for rear air 

On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 05:16:49 GMT, Mighty wrote:

>On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 00:13:02 -0400, Tim J. wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 03:44:28 GMT, Mighty wrote:
>>
>>>couldn't find a Usenet group about auto AC.
>>>It's an Aerostar so I'll ask here.
>>>The lines are rusted through. No one has replacement that I can find.
>>>Having some custom made is ridiculously expensive.
>>>Can anyone explain to me why I could not fix this with hose barbs and
>>>clamps instead of crimps and those damned springlock connectors?
>>>
>>>I could just buy tubing at home depot , clamp some barrier hose on and
>>>be good wouldn't one think?
>>
>>Do you have any idea what kind of pressures an A/C system operates at?
>>You also have to use materials that won't be degraded by the
>>refrigerant and oil in the system. Call around to the salvage yards
>>and see if they have the line set off a wrecked AS.
>
>Yes checked salvage they ALL seem to be horribly rusted. But maybe if
>I expand my search beyond the rust belt where I live.

This is where I get most of my used parts.

http://www.lkqcorp.com/home/home.asp

They have yards nationwide and can ship parts from one yard to
another. I don't know if they inventory line sets, but they do have
other A/C parts. The phone call is free, can't hurt to call and ask.
I had a Crown Vic engine shipped from Memphis to SC, no extra charge.

>I am aware of the pressures, typically 300psi or less on the high
>side. I would not use tubing that was any less strong or of a
>different material than what the factory put in there. Aluminium or on
>my van steel.

If you had rust problems before, I wouldn't go back to stock steel.
I'd probably opt for stainless, but then you're talking $$$. If you
can only find an OEM replacement line set, there may be a way to coat
them with something to protect them from rust, but not living in a
rust belt area, I have no experience in doing that.

>I was more interested to know if the barbs and clamps of old leak with
>R134a as opposed to the old R12 which they seemed to work fine with.
>But I can't imagine a springlock connector not leaking where a solid
>clamp would. Maybe I'm missing something.
>Thanks for the reply.

The leak problems are almost always caused by bad O-rings. They seem
to be the weak spot, especially on Fords. Once you get a good set of
O-rings in there, you generally don't have to worry about them again.
Most of the problems I've seen are from shoddy 134a conversions where
all the O-rings were not replaced.
 >> Stay informed about: Underbody AC lines for rear air 

On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 05:16:49 GMT, Mighty wrote:

>On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 00:13:02 -0400, Tim J. wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 03:44:28 GMT, Mighty wrote:
>>
>>>couldn't find a Usenet group about auto AC.
>>>It's an Aerostar so I'll ask here.
>>>The lines are rusted through. No one has replacement that I can find.
>>>Having some custom made is ridiculously expensive.
>>>Can anyone explain to me why I could not fix this with hose barbs and
>>>clamps instead of crimps and those damned springlock connectors?
>>>
>>>I could just buy tubing at home depot , clamp some barrier hose on and
>>>be good wouldn't one think?
>>
>>Do you have any idea what kind of pressures an A/C system operates at?
>>You also have to use materials that won't be degraded by the
>>refrigerant and oil in the system. Call around to the salvage yards
>>and see if they have the line set off a wrecked AS.
>
>Yes checked salvage they ALL seem to be horribly rusted. But maybe if
>I expand my search beyond the rust belt where I live.
>I am aware of the pressures, typically 300psi or less on the high
>side. I would not use tubing that was any less strong or of a
>different material than what the factory put in there. Aluminium or on
>my van steel.
>I was more interested to know if the barbs and clamps of old leak with
>R134a as opposed to the old R12 which they seemed to work fine with.
>But I can't imagine a springlock connector not leaking where a solid
>clamp would. Maybe I'm missing something.
>Thanks for the reply.

Try 400 PSI plus for R-12. You could use hoses and clamps if the
tubing has rolled lock-rings at the ends to work like fitting barbs,
otherwise the hoses and clamps will blow right off the ends.

SAE Flare or double-flare can be done in the field, but you need to
buy a quality flare tool. And the hard part would be adapting between
Flare or O-ring fittings and the Springlock. If you can modify the
other end and use new hose, Aeroquip has weld-on flare tips for many
types of hard line.

If it wasn't for the vibration fatigue failure of hard copper lines,
I'd go get a refrigeration lineset and run it on the same route. (In
other words, don't try, it will fail early.)

You might have to go find the right size steel tubing that you can
find fittings for, get a tube bending tool, and start duplicating.
Swage the ends (or go one size smaller) and weld the tips of the old
lines on the new, then paint and wrap the heck out of the new lines
before you mount them.

--<< Bruce >>--
 >> Stay informed about: Underbody AC lines for rear air 

On Jul 29, 11:44 pm, Mighty wrote:
> couldn't find a Usenet group about auto AC.
> It's an Aerostar so I'll ask here.
> The lines are rusted through. No one has replacement that I can find.
> Having some custom made is ridiculously expensive.
> Can anyone explain to me why I could not fix this with hose barbs and
> clamps instead of crimps and those damned springlock connectors?
>
> I could just buy tubing at home depot , clamp some barrier hose on and
> be good wouldn't one think?
>
> --
> Mighty

There's no MVAC usenet group, but there is a great internet forum:
www.autoacforum.com

This is a common problem on many vehicles with rear AC. One common
solution is to get a line set for the same vehicle without rear AC.
You lose the rear air, but if the cost of replacing the rear lines is
prohibitive....
 >> Stay informed about: Underbody AC lines for rear air 

If you had rust problems before, I wouldn't go back to stock steel.
I'd probably opt for stainless, but then you're talking $$$.


If you know anyone that works at a local construction site, they can
probably smuggle you out some stainless for free.
 >> Stay informed about: Underbody AC lines for rear air 

>
> If it wasn't for the vibration fatigue failure of hard copper lines,
> I'd go get a refrigeration lineset and run it on the same route. (In
> other words, don't try, it will fail early.)
>

The copper lines may fail earlier than steel would, but that's years down
the road. We had copper refrigerant lines on our waveguide cooling /drying
system and oil lines on our primary generators when I was in the Air Force,
and those lines were years old without any failures. I think you have the
right idea about using flare fittings. It shouldn't be that big of a deal to
braze on a male fitting to the steel lines that are still good and use
female flares on the copper lines. Don't see any real reason why it wouldn't
work.

SC Tom
 >> Stay informed about: Underbody AC lines for rear air 

I could just buy tubing at home depot , clamp some barrier hose on and
be good wouldn't one think?


Actually PVC line would work. I have a friend who replaced his lines with
hard PVC tubing.
 >> Stay informed about: Underbody AC lines for rear air 

This message is not archived
 >> Stay informed about: Underbody AC lines for rear air 

On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 23:53:26 GMT, Mighty wrote:

>On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 12:12:09 -0700, "Rick Cooper"
> wrote:
>
>>I could just buy tubing at home depot , clamp some barrier hose on and
>>be good wouldn't one think?
>>
>>
>>Actually PVC line would work. I have a friend who replaced his lines with
>>hard PVC tubing.
>>
>Too scary. I think it would soften from the hot compressed high side
>and burst.

PVC pipe for refrigerant? Hell No! It's only rated for 125 PSI
with water, and not at all for gases - the pipe tends to shatter when
it bursts under gas pressure, people keep trying to use it for shop
compressed air and it fails every time sooner or later.

And if you are in front of it when it shatters, you can be in a
world of hurt or even dead...

Now you can use steel lines and slide PVC hose over them for
cushioning and rust prevention, but if moisture gets between the steel
line and the plastic hose you'll have the same problems.

A home refrigeration copper lineset would work and handle the
pressures involved, and the insulation on the suction line would be a
bonus for efficiency. (You would need some split corrugated loom
tubing to pad and protect the liquid line.) Or you could get "HVAC
Class" ultra heavy-wall copper pipe and bend it to fit - that's the
stuff that comes in 20' sticks pre-cleaned on the inside and plugged.

But copper does work harden and crack eventually when flexed, and
you would have to anchor it down every inch of the way (with padded
clamps) to make sure it doesn't move.

--<< Bruce >>--
 >> Stay informed about: Underbody AC lines for rear air 

This message is not archived
 >> Stay informed about: Underbody AC lines for rear air 

Mighty wrote:

> couldn't find a Usenet group about auto AC.
> It's an Aerostar so I'll ask here.
> The lines are rusted through. No one has replacement that I can find.
> Having some custom made is ridiculously expensive.
> Can anyone explain to me why I could not fix this with hose barbs and
> clamps instead of crimps and those damned springlock connectors?
>
> I could just buy tubing at home depot , clamp some barrier hose on and
> be good wouldn't one think?
>
>
> --
> Mighty


http://www.fmsiinc.com/ac/aluminum-tube-repair.htm

bob


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 >> Stay informed about: Underbody AC lines for rear air 

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 >> Stay informed about: Underbody AC lines for rear air 

Are u sure about the price of having them made? Check around a bit. I think
you are goin to have problems with clamps, u really need crimped on
fittings.


"Mighty" wrote in message

> couldn't find a Usenet group about auto AC.
> It's an Aerostar so I'll ask here.
> The lines are rusted through. No one has replacement that I can find.
> Having some custom made is ridiculously expensive.
> Can anyone explain to me why I could not fix this with hose barbs and
> clamps instead of crimps and those damned springlock connectors?
>
> I could just buy tubing at home depot , clamp some barrier hose on and
> be good wouldn't one think?
>
>
> --
> Mighty
 >> Stay informed about: Underbody AC lines for rear air