Tire repair question and replacement tires

On Jul 16, 11:09 am, sub....DeleteThis@toddh.net (Todd H.) wrote:
> "Zeppo" <zepp....DeleteThis@hotmail.com> writes:
> > "yngver" <yng....DeleteThis@aol.com> wrote in message
> >news:8e2a96bf-2786-40d9-937c-3153fbc4b13a@z72g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> >>I have a 2006 Forester which unfortunately keeps picking up nails in
> >> the same tire. I have the OE Geolanders, 25K miles. This time
> >> Firestone told me they are not allowed to patch the same tire more
> >> than three times because it is dangerous. That's one that neither my
> >> husband and I ever heard of before. The nail is not anywhere near the
> >> sidewall.
>
> >> Naturally they wanted to sell me a new tire, but as far as I know,
> >> with 25K miles I am going to have to replace all four tires, right?
> >> It's a slow leak so I told them to put the tire back on and I'd think
> >> about it overnight. Tomorrow I plan to go to Sears Auto Center.
>
> >> 1) Anyone ever heard that before, that you can only patch a tire three
> >> times, or is that just Firestone trying to sell tires?
>
> >> 2)If I have to replace all four tires, even though they have a lot of
> >> tread left, any recommendations on which ones are a good choice for
> >> the Forester? On my previous cars, which were Hondas, I generally
> >> liked Michelins.
> >> -yngver
>
> > Sorry, why would you need to replace all 4 tires? Can you not just replace
> > the one that is bad?
>
> > I'm asking this because by daughter just replaced a tire on her 2001
> > Forester.
> > Jon
>
> It's a bad idea and not manufacturer recommended on an AWD vehicle.
> Slight differences in circumference can allegedly damage the very
> expensive transmission components.
>
> If you wanna buy just one tire, it may need to be shaved down to the
> existing tires' circumference.
>
> --
> Todd H.
> 2001 Legacy Outback Wagon, 2.5L H-4
> Chicago, Illinois USA

I ended up buying a set of four Michelin Primacy tires at Sears. They
told me they replace one tire all the time on Subarus, but having read
the owners manual I didn't want to risk it. It's full of dire warnings
about what will happen if you don't replace all four tires at once. If
I had only 5,000 miles on these tires I would probably go ahead and
just replace one, but with 25,000 miles I figure there would be too
much of a difference in the treadwear--even if I could find the same
Geolanders.

The steering seems less nimble with the Michelins than with the
Geolanders, although they always seemed almost too nimble, like the
car was just about ready to sway. I read the reviews and the Michelin
Primacy MXV4 is supposed to have excellent steering response. Could
the difference be due to something like tire pressure or because they
aren't broken in yet? They are certainly quieter than the Geolanders
and don't squeal on turns, which the Geolanders always did, and
loudly.
-yngver
 >> Stay informed about: Tire repair question and replacement tires 

"yngver" <yngver.TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote in message
news:8e2a96bf-2786-40d9-937c-3153fbc4b13a@z72g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>I have a 2006 Forester which unfortunately keeps picking up nails in
> the same tire. I have the OE Geolanders, 25K miles. This time
> Firestone told me they are not allowed to patch the same tire more
> than three times because it is dangerous. That's one that neither my
> husband and I ever heard of before. The nail is not anywhere near the
> sidewall.
>
> Naturally they wanted to sell me a new tire, but as far as I know,
> with 25K miles I am going to have to replace all four tires, right?
> It's a slow leak so I told them to put the tire back on and I'd think
> about it overnight. Tomorrow I plan to go to Sears Auto Center.
>
> 1) Anyone ever heard that before, that you can only patch a tire three
> times, or is that just Firestone trying to sell tires?
>
> 2)If I have to replace all four tires, even though they have a lot of
> tread left, any recommendations on which ones are a good choice for
> the Forester? On my previous cars, which were Hondas, I generally
> liked Michelins.
> -yngver

Sorry, why would you need to replace all 4 tires? Can you not just replace
the one that is bad?

I'm asking this because by daughter just replaced a tire on her 2001
Forester.
Jon
 >> Stay informed about: Tire repair question and replacement tires 

"Zeppo" <zeppo_m RemoveThis @hotmail.com> writes:

> "yngver" <yngver RemoveThis @aol.com> wrote in message
> news:8e2a96bf-2786-40d9-937c-3153fbc4b13a@z72g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>>I have a 2006 Forester which unfortunately keeps picking up nails in
>> the same tire. I have the OE Geolanders, 25K miles. This time
>> Firestone told me they are not allowed to patch the same tire more
>> than three times because it is dangerous. That's one that neither my
>> husband and I ever heard of before. The nail is not anywhere near the
>> sidewall.
>>
>> Naturally they wanted to sell me a new tire, but as far as I know,
>> with 25K miles I am going to have to replace all four tires, right?
>> It's a slow leak so I told them to put the tire back on and I'd think
>> about it overnight. Tomorrow I plan to go to Sears Auto Center.
>>
>> 1) Anyone ever heard that before, that you can only patch a tire three
>> times, or is that just Firestone trying to sell tires?
>>
>> 2)If I have to replace all four tires, even though they have a lot of
>> tread left, any recommendations on which ones are a good choice for
>> the Forester? On my previous cars, which were Hondas, I generally
>> liked Michelins.
>> -yngver
>
> Sorry, why would you need to replace all 4 tires? Can you not just replace
> the one that is bad?
>
> I'm asking this because by daughter just replaced a tire on her 2001
> Forester.
> Jon

It's a bad idea and not manufacturer recommended on an AWD vehicle.
Slight differences in circumference can allegedly damage the very
expensive transmission components.

If you wanna buy just one tire, it may need to be shaved down to the
existing tires' circumference.

--
Todd H.
2001 Legacy Outback Wagon, 2.5L H-4
Chicago, Illinois USA
 >> Stay informed about: Tire repair question and replacement tires 

On Jul 16, 10:12 am, Dano58 <dan.dibi....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 16, 12:30 am, yngver <yng....TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I have a 2006 Forester which unfortunately keeps picking up nails in
> > the same tire. I have the OE Geolanders, 25K miles. This time
> > Firestone told me they are not allowed to patch the same tire more
> > than three times because it is dangerous. That's one that neither my
> > husband and I ever heard of before. The nail is not anywhere near the
> > sidewall.
>
> > Naturally they wanted to sell me a new tire, but as far as I know,
> > with 25K miles I am going to have to replace all four tires, right?
> > It's a slow leak so I told them to put the tire back on and I'd think
> > about it overnight. Tomorrow I plan to go to Sears Auto Center.
>
> > 1) Anyone ever heard that before, that you can only patch a tire three
> > times, or is that just Firestone trying to sell tires?
>
> > 2)If I have to replace all four tires, even though they have a lot of
> > tread left, any recommendations on which ones are a good choice for
> > the Forester? On my previous cars, which were Hondas, I generally
> > liked Michelins.
> > -yngver
>
> I'm not sure I would take a chance on tires patched even twice, to be
> honest. I mean, you're willing to risk your life instead of spending
> $500 or so on a set of tires??
>
> Dan D
> '99 Impreza 2.5 RS (son's) - with new tires
> Central NJ USA

I never knew before now that repairing tires was unsafe, because I was
never so unlucky as to get four nails in the same tire while the other
tires are all patch-free. You'd think the odds would mean at least a
couple of those nails could have ended up in different tires.
Unfortunately in city driving there is plenty of opportunity to pick
up nails and screws and other debris so just about everyone ends up
patching tires--and most people can't afford to be buying new tires
every couple thousand miles. My last nail puncture in this tire was in
May, so you can see how frequently it happens.

With the wheel alignment, it came to $800. At least with road hazard
coverage, next time this happens I'll get a prorated deduction off a
new tire--but just one tire, not all four.

My husband went through a similar situation when his Subaru Legacy hit
some road debris which shredded one tire at 15,000 miles. There are
other reasons we are unlikely to buy another Subaru but this is one of
them. I'd like to just replace one or two tires at a time, and while
AWD is nice to have in a snow storm, most of the time it just means
less fuel economy. I like my Forester for the most part but that is a
costly drawback.
-yngver
 >> Stay informed about: Tire repair question and replacement tires 

yngver wrote:
> I have a 2006 Forester which unfortunately keeps picking up nails in
> the same tire. I have the OE Geolanders, 25K miles. This time
> Firestone told me they are not allowed to patch the same tire more
> than three times because it is dangerous. That's one that neither my
> husband and I ever heard of before. The nail is not anywhere near the
> sidewall.
>
> Naturally they wanted to sell me a new tire, but as far as I know,
> with 25K miles I am going to have to replace all four tires, right?
> It's a slow leak so I told them to put the tire back on and I'd think
> about it overnight. Tomorrow I plan to go to Sears Auto Center.
>
> 1) Anyone ever heard that before, that you can only patch a tire three
> times, or is that just Firestone trying to sell tires?
>
> 2)If I have to replace all four tires, even though they have a lot of
> tread left, any recommendations on which ones are a good choice for
> the Forester? On my previous cars, which were Hondas, I generally
> liked Michelins.
> -yngver

I don't know if it is done anymore but when a tubeless tire became
hazardous to patch, they would just put a tube in it. Can you have that
done now?
 >> Stay informed about: Tire repair question and replacement tires 

"Todd H." <subaru.RemoveThis@toddh.net> wrote in message
news:8463r53j6c@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> "Zeppo" <zeppo_m.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> writes:
>
>> "yngver" <yngver.RemoveThis@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:8e2a96bf-2786-40d9-937c-3153fbc4b13a@z72g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>>>I have a 2006 Forester which unfortunately keeps picking up nails in
>>> the same tire. I have the OE Geolanders, 25K miles. This time
>>> Firestone told me they are not allowed to patch the same tire more
>>> than three times because it is dangerous. That's one that neither my
>>> husband and I ever heard of before. The nail is not anywhere near the
>>> sidewall.
>>>
>>> Naturally they wanted to sell me a new tire, but as far as I know,
>>> with 25K miles I am going to have to replace all four tires, right?
>>> It's a slow leak so I told them to put the tire back on and I'd think
>>> about it overnight. Tomorrow I plan to go to Sears Auto Center.
>>>
>>> 1) Anyone ever heard that before, that you can only patch a tire three
>>> times, or is that just Firestone trying to sell tires?
>>>
>>> 2)If I have to replace all four tires, even though they have a lot of
>>> tread left, any recommendations on which ones are a good choice for
>>> the Forester? On my previous cars, which were Hondas, I generally
>>> liked Michelins.
>>> -yngver
>>
>> Sorry, why would you need to replace all 4 tires? Can you not just
>> replace
>> the one that is bad?
>>
>> I'm asking this because by daughter just replaced a tire on her 2001
>> Forester.
>> Jon
>
> It's a bad idea and not manufacturer recommended on an AWD vehicle.
> Slight differences in circumference can allegedly damage the very
> expensive transmission components.
>
> If you wanna buy just one tire, it may need to be shaved down to the
> existing tires' circumference.
>
> --
> Todd H.
> 2001 Legacy Outback Wagon, 2.5L H-4
> Chicago, Illinois USA

Its not 'alleged'. The Subaru AWD (standards at least) use a liquid viscous
center diff. It detects the difference in the speed of the wheels to lock
up (it assumes you are slipping on the wheel spinning faster). If there is
uneven wear on the tires, they will turn at different rates. If the
difference is large enough, the center diff will begin to lock up. On dry
road, that could destroy it.
 >> Stay informed about: Tire repair question and replacement tires 

On Jul 16, 5:46 pm, d....TakeThisOut@no.email.thankstospam.net (DK) wrote:
> In article <3f6310c7-9ad6-4c9d-a5cf-a82efdfe7....TakeThisOut@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, yngver <yng....TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> >On Jul 16, 10:12 am, Dano58 <dan.dibi....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> I'm not sure I would take a chance on tires patched even twice, to be
> >> honest. I mean, you're willing to risk your life instead of spending
> >> $500 or so on a set of tires??
>
> >> Dan D
> >> '99 Impreza 2.5 RS (son's) - with new tires
> >> Central NJ USA
>
> >I never knew before now that repairing tires was unsafe, because I was
> >never so unlucky as to get four nails in the same tire while the other
> >tires are all patch-free. You'd think the odds would mean at least a
> >couple of those nails could have ended up in different tires.
> >Unfortunately in city driving there is plenty of opportunity to pick
> >up nails and screws and other debris so just about everyone ends up
> >patching tires--and most people can't afford to be buying new tires
> >every couple thousand miles.
>
> Not in my experience. One nail (bolt, actually) in one tire over
> 140,000 mile driven. 90% of that in the city.
>
> DK

Probably a different city. Speed bumps in the alleys seem to collect
debris, a lot of it sharp. Actually, I never got so many nails and
screws in my tires until I got this Subaru Forester. I wonder whether
the Geolanders are prone to puncture.
-yngver
 >> Stay informed about: Tire repair question and replacement tires 

On Jul 16, 7:55 pm, AS <do....TakeThisOut@spame.com> wrote:
> Not to encourage anyone to do as I did. I got a nail on a tire and they
> did not want to patch it, even though the nail was far from the
> sidewall. I ran the tire for two more years until it wore out, with the
> nail in place and having to check the pressure every two weeks.
>
> After having used the Michelin MXV4s, at $160 per tire, I will never buy
> Michelin tires again. They had the worst traction ever on wet roads and
> could never be balanced properly.
>
> When I went to the Goodyear place to get the Mich tires balanced, the
> guy asked me about the grip of the Michelins on wet roads, he had a
> smirk in his face and then he said, "not too good huh?"
>
> Anyway... I went to Yokohamas and loved the AVS db, best tires I have
> had so far... got discontinued.
>
> Tried the TOYO proxes TPT, same tire my friend had on a 2001 Outback.
> Both our cars developed the same tire noise and uneven wear patterns.
> These tires sucked big time even though they had great traction.
>
> Went to KUMHO ECSTA ASX and after 5K miles, I am very pleased, almost as
> much as with the Yokos.
>
I wish I had read more reviews like this before buying the Michelin
Primacy MXV4. This tire is top-rated on TireRack, and most people say
the OEM Yokohama Geolanders are terrible tires, but my initial
reaction driving with the new Michelins is "what happened to the
nimble steering I thought was a feature of the Forester?" I wonder if
I can take these tires back and order Geolanders, even though they
squeal terribly. But I didn't realize that "sporty" feel was due to
the Geolanders.
-yngver
 >> Stay informed about: Tire repair question and replacement tires 

This message is not archived
 >> Stay informed about: Tire repair question and replacement tires 

Frank wrote:

> I don't know if it is done anymore but when a tubeless tire became
> hazardous to patch, they would just put a tube in it. Can you have that
> done now?

Hi,

It's been a while since I did that, but it seemed the "practice" from
shop to shop would vary tremendously when I did. One shop wouldn't,
another would, another would "look carefully" before doing it--that kind
of stuff.

A buddy has a restored British sports car w/ wire wheels, and they
require tubes. W/ radial tires, radial tubes are required. Don't think
that's such a problem today as all the tubes I've seen recently are for
radials. Mounting them isn't a job for the careless or uninformed. He
says he's had much better luck doing "odd" stuff when he's sought out an
independent tire shop run by a guy w/ a little grey in his hair than w/
chains employing a high number of 18-20-somethings of dubious
educational achievement and even more dubious abilities in the critical
thinking department, who are also probably pretty well locked in to
company policy as defined by the legal dept....

Rick
 >> Stay informed about: Tire repair question and replacement tires 

On 16 Jul, 03:30, yngver <yng....RemoveThis@aol.com> wrote:
> I have a 2006 Forester which unfortunately keeps picking up nails in
> the same tire. I have the OE Geolanders, 25K miles. This time
> Firestone told me they are not allowed to patch the same tire more
> than three times because it is dangerous. That's one that neither my
> husband and I ever heard of before. The nail is not anywhere near the
> sidewall.
>
> Naturally they wanted to sell me a new tire, but as far as I know,
> with 25K miles I am going to have to replace all four tires, right?
> It's a slow leak so I told them to put the tire back on and I'd think
> about it overnight. Tomorrow I plan to go to Sears Auto Center.
>
> 1) Anyone ever heard that before, that you can only patch a tire three
> times, or is that just Firestone trying to sell tires?
>
> 2)If I have to replace all four tires, even though they have a lot of
> tread left, any recommendations on which ones are a good choice for
> the Forester? On my previous cars, which were Hondas, I generally
> liked Michelins.
> -yngver

I'd get them to try to explain What the danger was? Would like to find
it explained on the the net. I never counted the # of plugs, and
Didn't use Steel Belted tire plugs, just Plain rubber ones, and then
started to make them out of old inner tube, and never had a plug or
tire fail. Got to where I didn't pull the tire off the car to plug it,
and even had a reversible screwdriver shaft in a steel belted tire
tread, on an angle, flapping around like a broken skid chain, hitting
the fender.

I had kids cut a sidewall, and according to Popular Mechanics, a 2
inch dia hole in the tread or sidewall could be vulcanized. It was a
new tire so I went to a vulcanizer, and they wouldn't do it, and
wanted to sell me a Used tire. I patched it myself with a bicycle
patch on the inside of the tire. It held for a year till the patch
came loose. I had enough miles on the tire to get rid of it. I have
some patches for patching sidewalls.

Should be hearing from the Darwin Twins soon.))

VF
 >> Stay informed about: Tire repair question and replacement tires 

On Jul 17, 6:30 pm, hound....TakeThisOut@phonom.net wrote:
> On 16 Jul, 03:30, yngver <yng....TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I have a 2006 Forester which unfortunately keeps picking up nails in
> > the same tire. I have the OE Geolanders, 25K miles. This time
> > Firestone told me they are not allowed to patch the same tire more
> > than three times because it is dangerous. That's one that neither my
> > husband and I ever heard of before. The nail is not anywhere near the
> > sidewall.
>
> > Naturally they wanted to sell me a new tire, but as far as I know,
> > with 25K miles I am going to have to replace all four tires, right?
> > It's a slow leak so I told them to put the tire back on and I'd think
> > about it overnight. Tomorrow I plan to go to Sears Auto Center.
>
> > 1) Anyone ever heard that before, that you can only patch a tire three
> > times, or is that just Firestone trying to sell tires?
>
> > 2)If I have to replace all four tires, even though they have a lot of
> > tread left, any recommendations on which ones are a good choice for
> > the Forester? On my previous cars, which were Hondas, I generally
> > liked Michelins.
> > -yngver
>
> I'd get them to try to explain What the danger was? Would like to find
> it explained on the the net. I never counted the # of plugs, and
> Didn't use Steel Belted tire plugs, just Plain rubber ones, and then
> started to make them out of old inner tube, and never had a plug or
> tire fail. Got to where I didn't pull the tire off the car to plug it,
> and even had a reversible screwdriver shaft in a steel belted tire
> tread, on an angle, flapping around like a broken skid chain, hitting
> the fender.
>
>   I had kids cut a sidewall, and according to Popular Mechanics, a 2
> inch dia hole in the tread or sidewall could be vulcanized. It was a
> new tire so I went to a vulcanizer, and they wouldn't do it, and
> wanted to sell me a Used tire. I patched it myself with a bicycle
> patch on the inside of the tire. It held for a year till the patch
> came loose. I had enough miles on the tire to get rid of it. I have
> some patches for patching sidewalls.
>
>  Should be hearing from the Darwin Twins soon.))
>
> VF- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I don't know exactly what the danger is if there are too many patches
in a tire. Firestone said they won't patch a tire more than three
times. Not sure why three is the magic number. Sears said they
couldn't patch it again because the puncture was too close to an
existing patch. That at least made a little more sense than the "you
can only patch a tire three times" argument, as though it is a state
law or something.

On the Net I only came across a Snopes discussion in which a tire
dealer claimed you can't patch a tire more than twice. Apparently
there really is no specific number, just how many times a particular
tire shop will repair the tire before they say you have to buy a new
one. Some might only patch once, I guess. Or not at all. For most
people, if they have a flat and are running on the under-sized spare,
they are kind of at the mercy of the tire shop.
-yngver
 >> Stay informed about: Tire repair question and replacement tires 

On Jul 16, 12:30 am, yngver <yng....TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote:
> I have a 2006 Forester which unfortunately keeps picking up nails in
> the same tire. I have the OE Geolanders, 25K miles. This time
> Firestone told me they are not allowed to patch the same tire more
> than three times because it is dangerous. That's one that neither my
> husband and I ever heard of before. The nail is not anywhere near the
> sidewall.
>
> Naturally they wanted to sell me a new tire, but as far as I know,
> with 25K miles I am going to have to replace all four tires, right?
> It's a slow leak so I told them to put the tire back on and I'd think
> about it overnight. Tomorrow I plan to go to Sears Auto Center.
>
> 1) Anyone ever heard that before, that you can only patch a tire three
> times, or is that just Firestone trying to sell tires?
>
> 2)If I have to replace all four tires, even though they have a lot of
> tread left, any recommendations on which ones are a good choice for
> the Forester? On my previous cars, which were Hondas, I generally
> liked Michelins.
> -yngver

I've had a 1999 Outback Sport, 2002 2.5RS and 2004 WRX and absolutely
hated the Bridgestone RE92s. Was able to find an OB sport with BF
Goodrich T/As, and they were better, but the suspension just wasn't
made for handling.
Replaced the RE92s on the WRX with Continental Extreme Contact.
Excellent wet and dry traction in all temperatures, stiff sidewalls
handle well in summer even though all-seasons. Since I'm in the snow
belt I still switch over to winter tires for december through
february, Vikings made by Cooper. Again, excellent rubber. Consumer
reports picked them #2 to a Michelin, ahead of two different
Blizzaks.
 >> Stay informed about: Tire repair question and replacement tires