Timing Belt

On 2008-01-02 16:31:59 -0800, said:

> Why does Subaru still use a timing belt. Eventhe newcheapo suzuki sx4
> has a chain

if you want transportation that never requires you to service it
ride the bus (please).


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 >> Stay informed about: Timing Belt 

writes:

> Why does Subaru still use a timing belt. Eventhe newcheapo suzuki sx4
> has a chain

Which also has a service interval.

--
Todd H.
2001 Legacy Outback Wagon, 2.5L H-4
Chicago, Illinois USA
 >> Stay informed about: Timing Belt 

I am with jim on this one, I think belts are a big business and a lousy
alternative, the owner ends up putting out the money the manufacturer
saved, but:

Chains: Normally last the life of the engine, are noisy, sprockets and
idlers are lubricated by the engine, you hardly ever hear of
catastrophic chain failure.

Belts: Quieter, low cost, idlers have bearings which will require
replacing at least every other belt change, belts are guaranteed to
fail, and sometimes even ahead of time, (think Audi)

Gears: Expensive, wont allow for flexible engine designs.

Hurray for rotary engines with no valves.



wrote:

> Why does Subaru still use a timing belt. Eventhe newcheapo suzuki sx4
> has a chain
 >> Stay informed about: Timing Belt 

wrote:

> No truth. Timing belts just a ripoff for consumers
>
> On Jan 2, 9:11 pm, Bugalugs wrote:
>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Why does Subaru still use a timing belt. Eventhe newcheapo suzuki sx4
>>>has a chain
>>
>>Troll
>
>
Hmmm,
It is lighter, costs less.
 >> Stay informed about: Timing Belt 

Tony Hwang wrote:

> wrote:
>
>> No truth. Timing belts just a ripoff for consumers
>>
>> On Jan 2, 9:11 pm, Bugalugs wrote:
>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Why does Subaru still use a timing belt. Eventhe newcheapo suzuki sx4
>>>> has a chain
>>>
>>>
>>> Troll
>>
>>
>>
> Hmmm,
> It is lighter, costs less.

One moving part vs hundreds!

;^)

Carl


--
to reply, change ( .not) to ( .net)
 >> Stay informed about: Timing Belt 

On Jan 2, 7:31 pm, wrote:
> Why does Subaru still use a timing belt. Eventhe newcheapo suzuki sx4
> has a chain

For the same reason that Honda and Toyota still do - cost, quietness
compared to a chain, lightness, etc.

Dan D
'99 Impreza 2.5 RS (son's)
Central NJ USA
 >> Stay informed about: Timing Belt 

Hi BigJim, All!

On Wed, 2 Jan 2008 16:31:59 -0800 (PST), wrote:

>Why does Subaru still use a timing belt. Eventhe newcheapo suzuki sx4
>has a chain

A belt probably gives a more consistent valve timing over the life of
the belt, and doesn't require an oil bath. Useable at higher RPMs too.

Perhaps a better question would be:

"Why do manufacturers insist on putting interference engines into
consumer vehicles?"

A broken timing belt or chain is merely an inconvenience in an NI
motor, but is often a disaster of the highest degree (read "new
motor") on an interference engine.

And I fully understand that an interference type head/piston
arrangement means higher flow, more power, possibly even slightly
better efficiency, but it _also_ means that you'd better watch that
timing belt, buddy! Or else!

Just as an aside, last summer I acquired for cheap a '99 Forester with
under 100K that had what sounded like a bad rod bearing in it's 2.5L
SOHC motor. Turned out to be a failed idler bearing. (Bonus!)

When I performed the 105K service on my wife's '02 Forry (also with
the SOHC motor) a couple months ago, the belt looked OK, but several
idlers were going, particularly the same cogged idler that had failed
on mine.

What this means is that simply replacing the belt does not guarantee
that you're good to go for another 100K; you absolutely _must_ check
all of the idlers that the belt rides on (including the waterpump),
and replace any that aren't perfect. Or, do as I do, and simply
replace everything while it's apart. $igh.

And just one final note; I have heard it said that the EJ22 (as found
on early Legacys/Imprezas) is an NI engine. Don't count on it; I've
seen at least two with bent valves resulting from timing belt failures
.. . .

ByeBye! S.


Steve Jernigan KG0MB
Laboratory Manager
Microelectronics Research
University of Colorado
(719) 262-3101
 >> Stay informed about: Timing Belt 

On 3 Jan, 17:24, S wrote:
> Hi BigJim, All!
>
> On Wed, 2 Jan 2008 16:31:59 -0800 (PST), wrote:
> >Why does Subaru still use a timing belt. Eventhe newcheapo suzuki sx4
> >has a chain
>
> A belt probably gives a more consistent valve timing over the life of
> the belt, and doesn't require an oil bath. Useable at higher RPMs too.
>
> Perhaps a better question would be:
>
> "Why do manufacturers insist on putting interference engines into
> consumer vehicles?"
>
> A broken timing belt or chain is merely an inconvenience in an NI
> motor, but is often a disaster of the highest degree (read "new
> motor") on an interference engine.
>
> And I fully understand that an interference type head/piston
> arrangement means higher flow, more power, possibly even slightly
> better efficiency, but it _also_ means that you'd better watch that
> timing belt, buddy! Or else!
>
> Just as an aside, last summer I acquired for cheap a '99 Forester with
> under 100K that had what sounded like a bad rod bearing in it's 2.5L
> SOHC motor. Turned out to be a failed idler bearing. (Bonus!)
>
> When I performed the 105K service on my wife's '02 Forry (also with
> the SOHC motor) a couple months ago, the belt looked OK, but several
> idlers were going, particularly the same cogged idler that had failed
> on mine.
>
> What this means is that simply replacing the belt does not guarantee
> that you're good to go for another 100K; you absolutely _must_ check
> all of the idlers that the belt rides on (including the waterpump),
> and replace any that aren't perfect. Or, do as I do, and simply
> replace everything while it's apart. $igh.
>
> And just one final note; I have heard it said that the EJ22 (as found
> on early Legacys/Imprezas) is an NI engine. Don't count on it; I've
> seen at least two with bent valves resulting from timing belt failures
> . . .
>
> ByeBye! S.
>
> Steve Jernigan KG0MB
> Laboratory Manager
> Microelectronics Research
> University of Colorado
> (719) 262-3101


I don't like interference engines, and wonder who they can't cut
reliefs for the valves in the piston tops. I have heard of ones that
had Tripple chains.

I had wondered why I have seen timing belts sold with the idlers. I
should have realized they can go bad, but never owned a car with a
belt. I had a friend who was upset because a mechanic told him his VW
needed a new motor, since the motor had a knock. When the friend told
me his Oil Light was on, and he had been driving it for THREE Mos like
that. I Had to check it out. The knock was coming from the front of
the motor, near the TB cover, and didn't sound like a valve, rod, or
anything I had heard before. I pulled the cover and the idler was
moving with metal shavings on a flange. I told him That was his
knock.

Figured the oil light sending unit was bad or something. Told him to
pick up the parts and I would fix it. Changed the idler and sending
unit, and the oil light was still on. Took it out and poked in the
hole, and the oil light went off, so sludge was blocking it. My friend
was pissed that the mechanic was going to charge him 1600$ for a new
motor. Having a knock and no oil pressure did sound bad, but Not
being able to drive it for very far.

VF
 >> Stay informed about: Timing Belt 

On 3 Jan, 15:04, sub....TakeThisOut@toddh.net (Todd H.) wrote:
> Bugalugs writes:
> > wrote:
> > > No truth. Timing belts just a ripoff for consumers
> > > On Jan 2, 9:11 pm, Bugalugs wrote:
> > >> wrote:
> > >>> Why does Subaru still use a timing belt. Eventhe newcheapo suzuki sx4
> > >>> has a chain
> > >> Troll
>
> > So if you're going to make statements like that, back it up.
>
> > How many engines out there are fitted with timing belts, how many with
> > chains, how many with gears ?
>
> > Why is Subaru better/worse than any others?
>
> A more intriguing question is "why are so many engines interference
> designs where a belt failure is catastrophic?"
>
> I believe the answer on that has to do with efficiency of the cylinder
> design, et al, but it's never been explained to me in sufficient
> detail for me to fully get on board with that.
>
> --
> Todd H.
> 2001 Legacy Outback Wagon, 2.5L H-4
> Chicago, Illinois USA


I thought it was because they are quieter, but wish they were NI.

I read that the SOHC will have less damage if a belt breaks.
Something about the DOHC free wheeling and bending all the valves.

VF
 >> Stay informed about: Timing Belt 

By the way some of you argue seemingly in favor of timing belts, I guess
you like to shell out money and spend time replacing timing belts. I do
not.

wrote:
> Why does Subaru still use a timing belt. Eventhe newcheapo suzuki sx4
> has a chain
 >> Stay informed about: Timing Belt 

wrote:
> Why does Subaru still use a timing belt. Eventhe newcheapo suzuki sx4
> has a chain

Troll
 >> Stay informed about: Timing Belt 

How many timing chains in normal applications fail?

On Jan 2, 11:26 pm, Carl 1 Lucky Texan wrote:
> Tony Hwang wrote:
> > wrote:
>
> >> No truth.  Timing belts just a ripoff for consumers
>
> >> On Jan 2, 9:11 pm, Bugalugs wrote:
>
> >>> wrote:
>
> >>>> Why does Subaru still use a timing belt.  Eventhe newcheapo suzuki sx4
> >>>> has a chain
>
> >>> Troll
>
> > Hmmm,
> > It is lighter, costs less.
>
> One moving part vs hundreds!
>
> ;^)
>
> Carl
>
> --
> to reply, change  ( .not)  to  ( .net)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
 >> Stay informed about: Timing Belt 

The Subaru H-6 3.0 liter uses a timing chain.
wrote in message

> Why does Subaru still use a timing belt. Eventhe newcheapo suzuki sx4
> has a chain
 >> Stay informed about: Timing Belt