Sienna headlining anchor points...?

On Thu, 4 Sep 2008 20:59:40 -0500, "Ray O"
<rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:

>
>"Kenneth" <usenet.RemoveThis@soleSPAMLESSassociates.com> wrote in message
>news:7pb0c45pnfabdbjvhf1cjccbc8dm18q328@4ax.com...
>>
>> Howdy,
>>
>> I have an '04 Sienna...
>>
>> One of the things that troubles me about the van is that I
>> can't seem to locate any cargo barrier that would actually
>> keep things in the rear in the event of a collision.
>>
>> Then, I began to wonder if there might be any (hidden)
>> threaded anchor points beneath the headlining.
>>
>> I spoke with reps from Toyota and they said, in essence, "If
>> there were, we could not tell you." Of course, they are
>> concerned about liability issues, but those comments (and I
>> heard them more than once) seem to indicate that there might
>> be something of interest up there.
>>
>> Might you know?
>>
>> Many thanks,
>> --
>> Kenneth
>>
>> If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
>
>I doubt if there are any "secret" anchor points above the headliner. Check
>your owner's manual to find the anchor points for tethered child seats.
>They are probably in the floor but may be up in the headliner.
>
>Or, go to www.cabelas.com, click on the "Auto & ATV" link, then click on the
>"Auto Interior" link, then click on the "Automotive Pet Accessories" link,
>the click on "Dog Barrier" and the Wire Mesh pet barrier links.

Hi Ray,

I thank you for the suggestions, but the Dog Barrier stuff
is similar to what I have seen.

Those "barriers" are held in place by friction alone. In the
event of an accident, I believe that the luggage, and the
barrier would come forward.

I will check on the child seat tethering ideas though, and
sincerely appreciate your comments,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
 >> Stay informed about: Sienna headlining anchor points...? 

"Kenneth" <usenet.RemoveThis@soleSPAMLESSassociates.com> wrote in message
news:cej2c4l0gs704cds9gbr0ej9knjp2h8f2j@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 4 Sep 2008 20:59:40 -0500, "Ray O"
> <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Kenneth" <usenet.RemoveThis@soleSPAMLESSassociates.com> wrote in message
>>news:7pb0c45pnfabdbjvhf1cjccbc8dm18q328@4ax.com...
>>>
>>> Howdy,
>>>
>>> I have an '04 Sienna...
>>>
>>> One of the things that troubles me about the van is that I
>>> can't seem to locate any cargo barrier that would actually
>>> keep things in the rear in the event of a collision.
>>>
>>> Then, I began to wonder if there might be any (hidden)
>>> threaded anchor points beneath the headlining.
>>>
>>> I spoke with reps from Toyota and they said, in essence, "If
>>> there were, we could not tell you." Of course, they are
>>> concerned about liability issues, but those comments (and I
>>> heard them more than once) seem to indicate that there might
>>> be something of interest up there.
>>>
>>> Might you know?
>>>
>>> Many thanks,
>>> --
>>> Kenneth
>>>
>>> If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
>>
>>I doubt if there are any "secret" anchor points above the headliner.
>>Check
>>your owner's manual to find the anchor points for tethered child seats.
>>They are probably in the floor but may be up in the headliner.
>>
>>Or, go to www.cabelas.com, click on the "Auto & ATV" link, then click on
>>the
>>"Auto Interior" link, then click on the "Automotive Pet Accessories" link,
>>the click on "Dog Barrier" and the Wire Mesh pet barrier links.
>
> Hi Ray,
>
> I thank you for the suggestions, but the Dog Barrier stuff
> is similar to what I have seen.
>
> Those "barriers" are held in place by friction alone. In the
> event of an accident, I believe that the luggage, and the
> barrier would come forward.
>
> I will check on the child seat tethering ideas though, and
> sincerely appreciate your comments,
> --
> Kenneth
>

If the cargo is loaded uniformly below the top of the second row seat backs,
I would think that in the event of a severe accident, the barrier would be
pushed up against the backs of the second row seats. If you really want to
tether the barrier, attach 1" tubular webbing used for climbing and vertical
rescue work to the luggage anchors mounted in the floor. Tie the webbing in
a water knot and it will have a breaking strength of approximately 2,000
pounds.

--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)
 >> Stay informed about: Sienna headlining anchor points...? 

On Sat, 6 Sep 2008 00:35:27 -0500, "Ray O"
<rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:

>
>"Kenneth" <usenet.RemoveThis@soleSPAMLESSassociates.com> wrote in message
>news:cej2c4l0gs704cds9gbr0ej9knjp2h8f2j@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 4 Sep 2008 20:59:40 -0500, "Ray O"
>> <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Kenneth" <usenet.RemoveThis@soleSPAMLESSassociates.com> wrote in message
>>>news:7pb0c45pnfabdbjvhf1cjccbc8dm18q328@4ax.com...
>>>>
>>>> Howdy,
>>>>
>>>> I have an '04 Sienna...
>>>>
>>>> One of the things that troubles me about the van is that I
>>>> can't seem to locate any cargo barrier that would actually
>>>> keep things in the rear in the event of a collision.
>>>>
>>>> Then, I began to wonder if there might be any (hidden)
>>>> threaded anchor points beneath the headlining.
>>>>
>>>> I spoke with reps from Toyota and they said, in essence, "If
>>>> there were, we could not tell you." Of course, they are
>>>> concerned about liability issues, but those comments (and I
>>>> heard them more than once) seem to indicate that there might
>>>> be something of interest up there.
>>>>
>>>> Might you know?
>>>>
>>>> Many thanks,
>>>> --
>>>> Kenneth
>>>>
>>>> If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
>>>
>>>I doubt if there are any "secret" anchor points above the headliner.
>>>Check
>>>your owner's manual to find the anchor points for tethered child seats.
>>>They are probably in the floor but may be up in the headliner.
>>>
>>>Or, go to www.cabelas.com, click on the "Auto & ATV" link, then click on
>>>the
>>>"Auto Interior" link, then click on the "Automotive Pet Accessories" link,
>>>the click on "Dog Barrier" and the Wire Mesh pet barrier links.
>>
>> Hi Ray,
>>
>> I thank you for the suggestions, but the Dog Barrier stuff
>> is similar to what I have seen.
>>
>> Those "barriers" are held in place by friction alone. In the
>> event of an accident, I believe that the luggage, and the
>> barrier would come forward.
>>
>> I will check on the child seat tethering ideas though, and
>> sincerely appreciate your comments,
>> --
>> Kenneth
>>
>
>If the cargo is loaded uniformly below the top of the second row seat backs,
>I would think that in the event of a severe accident, the barrier would be
>pushed up against the backs of the second row seats. If you really want to
>tether the barrier, attach 1" tubular webbing used for climbing and vertical
>rescue work to the luggage anchors mounted in the floor. Tie the webbing in
>a water knot and it will have a breaking strength of approximately 2,000
>pounds.

Hi Ray,

Thanks again for your interesting suggestion...,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
 >> Stay informed about: Sienna headlining anchor points...? 

On Sat, 6 Sep 2008 00:35:27 -0500, "Ray O" wrote:
>"Kenneth" wrote...
>> On Thu, 4 Sep 2008 20:59:40 -0500, "Ray O" wrote:
>>>"Kenneth" <usenet DeleteThis @soleSPAMLESSassociates.com> wrote...

>>>> I have an '04 Sienna...
>>>>
>>>> One of the things that troubles me about the van is that I
>>>> can't seem to locate any cargo barrier that would actually
>>>> keep things in the rear in the event of a collision.
>>>>
>>>> Then, I began to wonder if there might be any (hidden)
>>>> threaded anchor points beneath the headlining.
>>>>
>>>> I spoke with reps from Toyota and they said, in essence, "If
>>>> there were, we could not tell you." Of course, they are
>>>> concerned about liability issues, but those comments (and I
>>>> heard them more than once) seem to indicate that there might
>>>> be something of interest up there.
>>>
>>>I doubt if there are any "secret" anchor points above the headliner.
>>>Check your owner's manual to find the anchor points for tethered child
>>>seats. They are probably in the floor but may be up in the headliner.
>>>
>>>Or, go to www.cabelas.com, click on the "Auto & ATV" link, then click on
>>>the "Auto Interior" link, then click on the "Automotive Pet Accessories"
>>>link, then click on "Dog Barrier" and the Wire Mesh pet barrier links.
>>
>> I thank you for the suggestions, but the Dog Barrier stuff
>> is similar to what I have seen.
>>
>> Those "barriers" are held in place by friction alone. In the
>> event of an accident, I believe that the luggage, and the
>> barrier would come forward.
>>
>> I will check on the child seat tethering ideas though, and
>> sincerely appreciate your comments,
>
>If the cargo is loaded uniformly below the top of the second row seat backs,
>I would think that in the event of a severe accident, the barrier would be
>pushed up against the backs of the second row seats. If you really want to
>tether the barrier, attach 1" tubular webbing used for climbing and vertical
>rescue work to the luggage anchors mounted in the floor. Tie the webbing in
>a water knot and it will have a breaking strength of approximately 2,000
>pounds.

If the pet/cargo barrier is going where the third seat is, and the
car has upper anchor points for shoulder restraints on the first and
second row seating, I'll bet the anchors are also under there for the
third row seats.

Nobody wants to tell you because they are afraid of liability - as
long as you are clear that "you're on your own" go for it. It's easy
enough to remove the trim, pull back the headliner, and look.

If it does, get a set of seatbelts at a wrecking yard, and modify
the anchor for the barrier. Just loop the strap of belting around the
barrier, overlap three to six inches, and sew it to itself.

You can reuse salvaged seatbelt webbing as long as it wasn't in an
accident - if it's soft and pliable it's fine, the fibers stretch to
absorb the impact and that makes them heat up and fuse into almost a
solid nylon bar. If in doubt, a rope climbing supplier will have the
solid webbing new, as well as the softer tubular webbing.

Or better yet, go to a camping and climbing supply and get a set of
2" 'Fastex' filled Nylon strap buckles, so you can remove the barrier
without a socket wrench to remove the anchor points. They are rather
strong, and you could double them up if needed. If you want totally
Bomb-Proof, use seat belt buckles.

And if you can't find anchor points, make your own. Use a length of
seatbelt and a buckle, and get a half dozen heavy (#10) sheetmetal
screws and fender washers. Take a soldering iron and melt screw holes
through the center of the webbing, then press it flat while hot.
Three or four in a row, about 2" apart.

MAKE SURE there aren't any wires in the roof channel in that area,
then make pilot holes and screw the strap to the roof channel right
through the headliner.

Don't deviate on the screws - too small won't hold the shear loads
you'll be putting on them structurally (which is the whole idea...)
too big and you won't be able to hide the holes when you sell the car.

Now this will NOT hold back your Anvil Collection in a severe
accident, but should do fine to keep a pet or smaller cargo from
flying forward. And if the hit is severe enough for this to fail,
you've already got much bigger problems.

--<< Bruce >>--
 >> Stay informed about: Sienna headlining anchor points...? 

On Sat, 06 Sep 2008 09:15:54 -0700, Bruce L. Bergman
<blnospambergman.DeleteThis@earthlink.invalid> wrote:

>
> If the pet/cargo barrier is going where the third seat is, and the
>car has upper anchor points for shoulder restraints on the first and
>second row seating, I'll bet the anchors are also under there for the
>third row seats.
>
> Nobody wants to tell you because they are afraid of liability - as
>long as you are clear that "you're on your own" go for it. It's easy
>enough to remove the trim, pull back the headliner, and look.
>
> If it does, get a set of seatbelts at a wrecking yard, and modify
>the anchor for the barrier. Just loop the strap of belting around the
>barrier, overlap three to six inches, and sew it to itself.
>
> You can reuse salvaged seatbelt webbing as long as it wasn't in an
>accident - if it's soft and pliable it's fine, the fibers stretch to
>absorb the impact and that makes them heat up and fuse into almost a
>solid nylon bar. If in doubt, a rope climbing supplier will have the
>solid webbing new, as well as the softer tubular webbing.
>
> Or better yet, go to a camping and climbing supply and get a set of
>2" 'Fastex' filled Nylon strap buckles, so you can remove the barrier
>without a socket wrench to remove the anchor points. They are rather
>strong, and you could double them up if needed. If you want totally
>Bomb-Proof, use seat belt buckles.
>
> And if you can't find anchor points, make your own. Use a length of
>seatbelt and a buckle, and get a half dozen heavy (#10) sheetmetal
>screws and fender washers. Take a soldering iron and melt screw holes
>through the center of the webbing, then press it flat while hot.
>Three or four in a row, about 2" apart.
>
> MAKE SURE there aren't any wires in the roof channel in that area,
>then make pilot holes and screw the strap to the roof channel right
>through the headliner.
>
> Don't deviate on the screws - too small won't hold the shear loads
>you'll be putting on them structurally (which is the whole idea...)
>too big and you won't be able to hide the holes when you sell the car.
>
> Now this will NOT hold back your Anvil Collection in a severe
>accident, but should do fine to keep a pet or smaller cargo from
>flying forward. And if the hit is severe enough for this to fail,
>you've already got much bigger problems.
>
> --<< Bruce >>--

Hi Bruce,

Thanks for the interesting thoughts...

I think that I will have a pro pull the head lining to look
around. I hesitate to do it myself because there are apron
airbags in there, and I am not eager to have that sort of
surprise.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
 >> Stay informed about: Sienna headlining anchor points...? 

On Sat, 06 Sep 2008 16:57:19 -0400, Kenneth
<usenet.RemoveThis@soleSPAMLESSassociates.com> wrote:

>Thanks for the interesting thoughts...
>
>I think that I will have a pro pull the head lining to look
>around. I hesitate to do it myself because there are apron
>airbags in there, and I am not eager to have that sort of
>surprise.

The side curtain airbags are most likely going to be for the first
and second row seats only AFAIK. The dealer WILL know exactly where
all the airbag wiring and gear is, and they can advise you.

My contention is that the seatbelt upper anchors are going to be put
in All the roof members of every car made on the assembly line - it
would be too much trouble to make three or four separate sets of roof
rails for Cargo Van (front seats only) two-row and three-row seating.

If they use the Cargo Van roof rail parts without the anchors on a
car that is supposed to have three row seating it would be a big mess
on the assembly line - pull the car off the line and send it to
Rework, where they partially hand-build the car to fix the goof.

And someone buys the two-row van and wants the Dealer to install the
third-row seat...

My FJ-62 LandCruiser had the second-row shoulder harness anchors
already in the roof rails when I retrofit them in, they were never
required in the US.

--<< Bruce >>--
 >> Stay informed about: Sienna headlining anchor points...? 

"Bruce L. Bergman" <blnospambergman RemoveThis @earthlink.invalid> wrote in message
news:7oc9c4tf5jvvtfnshgpduea9o9iaj34lg8@4ax.com...
<snipped>
> My contention is that the seatbelt upper anchors are going to be put
> in All the roof members of every car made on the assembly line - it
> would be too much trouble to make three or four separate sets of roof
> rails for Cargo Van (front seats only) two-row and three-row seating.
>
> If they use the Cargo Van roof rail parts without the anchors on a
> car that is supposed to have three row seating it would be a big mess
> on the assembly line - pull the car off the line and send it to
> Rework, where they partially hand-build the car to fix the goof.
>
> And someone buys the two-row van and wants the Dealer to install the
> third-row seat...
>
> My FJ-62 LandCruiser had the second-row shoulder harness anchors
> already in the roof rails when I retrofit them in, they were never
> required in the US.
>
> --<< Bruce >>--
>

AFAIK, all Siennas sold in the U.S. are assembled in the U.S.; there is no
cargo version of the U.S. Sienna; and all Siennas sold in the U.S. have
three row seating so the outer shoulder anchors are all in use.

The first generation Toyota van sold in the U.S. had all sorts of
miscellaneous extra anchor points, but the Sienna's unibody construction is
much cleaner under the upholstery.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)
 >> Stay informed about: Sienna headlining anchor points...?