My Saab 93 rolls back although the ignition key is out!

On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 08:16:07 -0700 (PDT), jack_gats.RemoveThis@yahoo.fr wrote:

>I've just had the most stupid accident/incident in a duplex garage. I
>had taken out the key so normally the car should stay put shoudn't it?
>Well it rolled back under its own weight and dammaged its rear part
>when I lower the garage platform. Surely this means there's something
>seriously wrong with the electronics of the vehicle or did I do
>something wrong. The handbrake was pulled somewhat, but apparently not
>enough to prevent it from rolling back. All the same, the handbrake
>should not be relied upon to keep the car motionless. Any ideas?

Is it manual or auto, and what year is it?

On my 2001 manual one, there is some play in the drivetrain, so it
could move a few inches until the slack is taken up. It could also be
an adjustment problem in the lock, making it possible to take the key
out without it quite being in reverse.

Cheers,

Colin.
 >> Stay informed about: My Saab 93 rolls back although the ignition key is out! 

jack_gats RemoveThis @yahoo.fr wrote:

> All the same, the handbrake
> should not be relied upon to keep the car motionless.

It's certainly what I rely on. But then it's a 9000.

Graham
 >> Stay informed about: My Saab 93 rolls back although the ignition key is out! 

On 21 juin, 19:11, Colin Stamp wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 08:16:07 -0700 (PDT), jack_g... RemoveThis @yahoo.fr wrote:
> >I've just had the most stupid accident/incident in a duplex garage. I
> >had taken out the key so normally the car should stay put shoudn't it?
> >Well it rolled back under its own weight and dammaged its rear part
> >when I lower the garage platform. Surely this means there's something
> >seriously wrong with the electronics of the vehicle or did I do
> >something wrong. The handbrake was pulled somewhat, but apparently not
> >enough to prevent it from rolling back. All the same, the handbrake
> >should not be relied upon to keep the car motionless. Any ideas?
>
> Is it manual or auto, and what year is it?
>
> On my 2001 manual one, there is some play in the drivetrain, so it
> could move a few inches until the slack is taken up. It could also be
> an adjustment problem in the lock, making it possible to take the key
> out without it quite being in reverse.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Colin.

It's manual, construction year 2007. I suspect I was not really in
reverse. But why did the key come out so easily then? I didn't pull it
out by force. It didn't move a few inches in my case, it was simply
loose. If it had been on the top platform (rather than on the one
below, which vanishes underground when lowered) the car could have
rolled over me. I'll have it checked by Saab, problem is they'll see
the substantial scratches in the rear and they might not be eager to
identified a real problem as they think I might sue them for the cost
of putting the scratches right.

In the future I'll pull the handbrake to the hilt. Question: doesn't
it wear out the handbrake in the end to pull it tight all the time? I
use my car once a week, the rest of the week it would sit there with
handbrake pulled tight. Thanks for the helpful feedback. I may be
lucky that this happened in these circumstances and not in the street!
By the way, I never had any such problem with my old 12-year old Saab
(9000) whose key would never have come out in any gear but rear.
 >> Stay informed about: My Saab 93 rolls back although the ignition key is out! 

On 22 juin, 11:09, "DervMan" wrote:
> wrote in message
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 21 juin, 19:11, Colin Stamp wrote:
> >> On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 08:16:07 -0700 (PDT), jack_g....TakeThisOut@yahoo.fr wrote:
> >> >I've just had the most stupid accident/incident in a duplex garage. I
> >> >had taken out the key so normally the car should stay put shoudn't it?
> >> >Well it rolled back under its own weight and dammaged its rear part
> >> >when I lower the garage platform. Surely this means there's something
> >> >seriously wrong with the electronics of the vehicle or did I do
> >> >something wrong. The handbrake was pulled somewhat, but apparently not
> >> >enough to prevent it from rolling back. All the same, the handbrake
> >> >should not be relied upon to keep the car motionless. Any ideas?
>
> >> Is it manual or auto, and what year is it?
>
> >> On my 2001 manual one, there is some play in the drivetrain, so it
> >> could move a few inches until the slack is taken up. It could also be
> >> an adjustment problem in the lock, making it possible to take the key
> >> out without it quite being in reverse.
>
> >> Cheers,
>
> >> Colin.
>
> > It's manual, construction year 2007. I suspect I was not really in
> > reverse.
>
> You don't have to have the car in gear to remove the key in the 9-3 Sports
> Saloon, unless this has changed. What does the handbook say?
>
> > But why did the key come out so easily then? I didn't pull it
> > out by force. It didn't move a few inches in my case, it was simply
> > loose. If it had been on the top platform (rather than on the one
> > below, which vanishes underground when lowered) the car could have
> > rolled over me. I'll have it checked by Saab, problem is they'll see
> > the substantial scratches in the rear and they might not be eager to
> > identified a real problem as they think I might sue them for the cost
> > of putting the scratches right.
>
> Rather, they'll see you as having done something pretty stupid (didn't
> secure the vehicle) and are now trying to blame somebody else. That's the
> way I see it.
>
> > In the future I'll pull the handbrake to the hilt. Question: doesn't
> > it wear out the handbrake in the end to pull it tight all the time?
>
> No. Check what the handbook says about using the handbrake, but
> essentially, it's design to hold the car when it's being parked. So it'll
> wear out just in the same way that the engine will wear out when it's being
> used to drive the car.
>
> > I
> > use my car once a week, the rest of the week it would sit there with
> > handbrake pulled tight. Thanks for the helpful feedback. I may be
> > lucky that this happened in these circumstances and not in the street!
> > By the way, I never had any such problem with my old 12-year old Saab
> > (9000) whose key would never have come out in any gear but rear.
>
> First things first would be to check the handbook to see what the
> recommended parking procedure is. It may be to leave the car in gear, or to
> fully engage the handbrake, maybe both. If you've carried out the procedure
> to the letter than there may be a mechanical issue with your 9-3. If you've
> missed a stage, hmm; next time you'll know.
>
> I almost did something similar the day I replaced my Classic 9-3 with the
> Sports Saloon. I was used to the car always being in gear when you have the
> key in your pocket, thus, I'd park the car pointing nose down on our drive
> and walk out with the handbrake off, knowing that the engine would hold the
> car. Since one can take the key out of the newer shape (my '04 at least)
> without the car being in gear, I stopped, shut down, took the key out and
> caught the car starting to roll down the drive with the foot brake. So I am
> sympathetic - are you going to get the bodywork repaired?
>
> --
> The DervManwww.dervman.com

I'll probably have the bodywork repaired since not doing so could
cause the rust guarantee to become unenforceable, at least according
to the manual. Not that rust is much of a problem with Saab but mine
is only one-year old.

The manual require to engage the handbrake *before* pulling out the
key. Don't know what that *before* means. Seems to me the handbrake is
a purely manual device so pulling it when the motor is dead should
have the same effect. It's a pity handbrakes don't have an "either-or"
way of working, I mean a position where they surely would break the
car (rather than lower or intermediate positions where all they do is
slow down the car somewhat or not all like it did in my case). From
now on the handbrake handle will be seen near to right-angle in my
car, you can bet on that!
 >> Stay informed about: My Saab 93 rolls back although the ignition key is out! 

wrote in message

> On 21 juin, 19:11, Colin Stamp wrote:
>> On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 08:16:07 -0700 (PDT), jack_g....DeleteThis@yahoo.fr wrote:
>> >I've just had the most stupid accident/incident in a duplex garage. I
>> >had taken out the key so normally the car should stay put shoudn't it?
>> >Well it rolled back under its own weight and dammaged its rear part
>> >when I lower the garage platform. Surely this means there's something
>> >seriously wrong with the electronics of the vehicle or did I do
>> >something wrong. The handbrake was pulled somewhat, but apparently not
>> >enough to prevent it from rolling back. All the same, the handbrake
>> >should not be relied upon to keep the car motionless. Any ideas?
>>
>> Is it manual or auto, and what year is it?
>>
>> On my 2001 manual one, there is some play in the drivetrain, so it
>> could move a few inches until the slack is taken up. It could also be
>> an adjustment problem in the lock, making it possible to take the key
>> out without it quite being in reverse.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Colin.
>
> It's manual, construction year 2007. I suspect I was not really in
> reverse.

You don't have to have the car in gear to remove the key in the 9-3 Sports
Saloon, unless this has changed. What does the handbook say?

> But why did the key come out so easily then? I didn't pull it
> out by force. It didn't move a few inches in my case, it was simply
> loose. If it had been on the top platform (rather than on the one
> below, which vanishes underground when lowered) the car could have
> rolled over me. I'll have it checked by Saab, problem is they'll see
> the substantial scratches in the rear and they might not be eager to
> identified a real problem as they think I might sue them for the cost
> of putting the scratches right.

Rather, they'll see you as having done something pretty stupid (didn't
secure the vehicle) and are now trying to blame somebody else. That's the
way I see it.

> In the future I'll pull the handbrake to the hilt. Question: doesn't
> it wear out the handbrake in the end to pull it tight all the time?

No. Check what the handbook says about using the handbrake, but
essentially, it's design to hold the car when it's being parked. So it'll
wear out just in the same way that the engine will wear out when it's being
used to drive the car.

> I
> use my car once a week, the rest of the week it would sit there with
> handbrake pulled tight. Thanks for the helpful feedback. I may be
> lucky that this happened in these circumstances and not in the street!
> By the way, I never had any such problem with my old 12-year old Saab
> (9000) whose key would never have come out in any gear but rear.

First things first would be to check the handbook to see what the
recommended parking procedure is. It may be to leave the car in gear, or to
fully engage the handbrake, maybe both. If you've carried out the procedure
to the letter than there may be a mechanical issue with your 9-3. If you've
missed a stage, hmm; next time you'll know.

I almost did something similar the day I replaced my Classic 9-3 with the
Sports Saloon. I was used to the car always being in gear when you have the
key in your pocket, thus, I'd park the car pointing nose down on our drive
and walk out with the handbrake off, knowing that the engine would hold the
car. Since one can take the key out of the newer shape (my '04 at least)
without the car being in gear, I stopped, shut down, took the key out and
caught the car starting to roll down the drive with the foot brake. So I am
sympathetic - are you going to get the bodywork repaired?

--
The DervMan
www.dervman.com
 >> Stay informed about: My Saab 93 rolls back although the ignition key is out! 

On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 01:18:34 -0700 (PDT), jack_gats.TakeThisOut@yahoo.fr wrote:

>On 21 juin, 19:11, Colin Stamp wrote:
>> On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 08:16:07 -0700 (PDT), jack_g....TakeThisOut@yahoo.fr wrote:
>> >I've just had the most stupid accident/incident in a duplex garage. I
>> >had taken out the key so normally the car should stay put shoudn't it?
>> >Well it rolled back under its own weight and dammaged its rear part
>> >when I lower the garage platform. Surely this means there's something
>> >seriously wrong with the electronics of the vehicle or did I do
>> >something wrong. The handbrake was pulled somewhat, but apparently not
>> >enough to prevent it from rolling back. All the same, the handbrake
>> >should not be relied upon to keep the car motionless. Any ideas?
>>
>> Is it manual or auto, and what year is it?
>>
>> On my 2001 manual one, there is some play in the drivetrain, so it
>> could move a few inches until the slack is taken up. It could also be
>> an adjustment problem in the lock, making it possible to take the key
>> out without it quite being in reverse.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Colin.
>
>It's manual, construction year 2007. I suspect I was not really in
>reverse. But why did the key come out so easily then? I didn't pull it
>out by force. It didn't move a few inches in my case, it was simply
>loose. If it had been on the top platform (rather than on the one
>below, which vanishes underground when lowered) the car could have
>rolled over me. I'll have it checked by Saab, problem is they'll see
>the substantial scratches in the rear and they might not be eager to
>identified a real problem as they think I might sue them for the cost
>of putting the scratches right.

It definitely sounds like something is wrong then. I don't know how
the interlock is done on 2007 cars, but your dealer should certainly
be able to sort it out if they can repeat the fault. Have you tried
fiddling with it to make it happen again?

>
>In the future I'll pull the handbrake to the hilt. Question: doesn't
>it wear out the handbrake in the end to pull it tight all the time? I
>use my car once a week, the rest of the week it would sit there with
>handbrake pulled tight.

No, it won't wear it out as long as you only pull it on with the car
at a standstill. Using it whilst moving will certainly cause some
wear, so go easy on the handbrake turns...

Cheers,

Colin.
 >> Stay informed about: My Saab 93 rolls back although the ignition key is out! 

On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 10:09:39 +0100, "DervMan"
wrote:

>You don't have to have the car in gear to remove the key in the 9-3 Sports
>Saloon, unless this has changed. What does the handbook say?

Ah, I didn't know they'd deleted the gearbox lock. So the new cars
just rely on the door locks and electronics for theft prevention?

Cheers,

Colin.
 >> Stay informed about: My Saab 93 rolls back although the ignition key is out! 

This message is not archived
 >> Stay informed about: My Saab 93 rolls back although the ignition key is out! 

wrote in message

> On 22 juin, 11:09, "DervMan" wrote:
>> wrote in message
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On 21 juin, 19:11, Colin Stamp wrote:
>> >> On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 08:16:07 -0700 (PDT), jack_g....DeleteThis@yahoo.fr wrote:
>> >> >I've just had the most stupid accident/incident in a duplex garage. I
>> >> >had taken out the key so normally the car should stay put shoudn't
>> >> >it?
>> >> >Well it rolled back under its own weight and dammaged its rear part
>> >> >when I lower the garage platform. Surely this means there's something
>> >> >seriously wrong with the electronics of the vehicle or did I do
>> >> >something wrong. The handbrake was pulled somewhat, but apparently
>> >> >not
>> >> >enough to prevent it from rolling back. All the same, the handbrake
>> >> >should not be relied upon to keep the car motionless. Any ideas?
>>
>> >> Is it manual or auto, and what year is it?
>>
>> >> On my 2001 manual one, there is some play in the drivetrain, so it
>> >> could move a few inches until the slack is taken up. It could also be
>> >> an adjustment problem in the lock, making it possible to take the key
>> >> out without it quite being in reverse.
>>
>> >> Cheers,
>>
>> >> Colin.
>>
>> > It's manual, construction year 2007. I suspect I was not really in
>> > reverse.
>>
>> You don't have to have the car in gear to remove the key in the 9-3
>> Sports
>> Saloon, unless this has changed. What does the handbook say?
>>
>> > But why did the key come out so easily then? I didn't pull it
>> > out by force. It didn't move a few inches in my case, it was simply
>> > loose. If it had been on the top platform (rather than on the one
>> > below, which vanishes underground when lowered) the car could have
>> > rolled over me. I'll have it checked by Saab, problem is they'll see
>> > the substantial scratches in the rear and they might not be eager to
>> > identified a real problem as they think I might sue them for the cost
>> > of putting the scratches right.
>>
>> Rather, they'll see you as having done something pretty stupid (didn't
>> secure the vehicle) and are now trying to blame somebody else. That's
>> the
>> way I see it.
>>
>> > In the future I'll pull the handbrake to the hilt. Question: doesn't
>> > it wear out the handbrake in the end to pull it tight all the time?
>>
>> No. Check what the handbook says about using the handbrake, but
>> essentially, it's design to hold the car when it's being parked. So
>> it'll
>> wear out just in the same way that the engine will wear out when it's
>> being
>> used to drive the car.
>>
>> > I
>> > use my car once a week, the rest of the week it would sit there with
>> > handbrake pulled tight. Thanks for the helpful feedback. I may be
>> > lucky that this happened in these circumstances and not in the street!
>> > By the way, I never had any such problem with my old 12-year old Saab
>> > (9000) whose key would never have come out in any gear but rear.
>>
>> First things first would be to check the handbook to see what the
>> recommended parking procedure is. It may be to leave the car in gear, or
>> to
>> fully engage the handbrake, maybe both. If you've carried out the
>> procedure
>> to the letter than there may be a mechanical issue with your 9-3. If
>> you've
>> missed a stage, hmm; next time you'll know.
>>
>> I almost did something similar the day I replaced my Classic 9-3 with the
>> Sports Saloon. I was used to the car always being in gear when you have
>> the
>> key in your pocket, thus, I'd park the car pointing nose down on our
>> drive
>> and walk out with the handbrake off, knowing that the engine would hold
>> the
>> car. Since one can take the key out of the newer shape (my '04 at least)
>> without the car being in gear, I stopped, shut down, took the key out and
>> caught the car starting to roll down the drive with the foot brake. So I
>> am
>> sympathetic - are you going to get the bodywork repaired?
>>
>> --
>> The DervManwww.dervman.com
>
> I'll probably have the bodywork repaired since not doing so could
> cause the rust guarantee to become unenforceable, at least according
> to the manual. Not that rust is much of a problem with Saab but mine
> is only one-year old.
>
> The manual require to engage the handbrake *before* pulling out the
> key.

That's logical enough though. That way the car won't roll off with the
steering lock engaged.

> Don't know what that *before* means.

See above.

> Seems to me the handbrake is
> a purely manual device so pulling it when the motor is dead should
> have the same effect. It's a pity handbrakes don't have an "either-or"
> way of working, I mean a position where they surely would break the
> car (rather than lower or intermediate positions where all they do is
> slow down the car somewhat or not all like it did in my case).

Now you're not making any sense. There are electronic handbrakes that have
an on / off switch, but really, it isn't necessary. The handbrake is just
like the footbrake; you use as much of it as you need.

> From
> now on the handbrake handle will be seen near to right-angle in my
> car, you can bet on that!

If you don't use the button, you'll find that a given number of clicks is
enough to hold the car on a hill. Might be two, might be three, might be
four.

What else does the manual say about parking the car? Leave it in gear?

--
The DervMan
www.dervman.com
 >> Stay informed about: My Saab 93 rolls back although the ignition key is out! 

OK so I called the Saab dealer and he confirmed that the rear gear
block is a thing of the past in new models. The ignition key can now
be pulled out in any gear, including neutral. My mishap was just
waiting to occur considering that I went on relying on the
transmission brake like I had done for so many years with my older
model.
 >> Stay informed about: My Saab 93 rolls back although the ignition key is out! 

In article <0449ffe7-8852-4ab7-b0b7-faaf33646501
@z72g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, jack_gats.RemoveThis@yahoo.fr says...
> From
> now on the handbrake handle will be seen near to right-angle in my
> car, you can bet on that!
>
>
If you can pull it that far there is a problem. Much higher than 45
degrees on a modern saab is high.

The old C900 would go pretty high with some wear, but not the newer ones
with the kinked handbrake.
--
Carl Robson
Audio stream: http://www.bouncing-czechs.com:8000/samtest
Homepage: http://www.bouncing-czechs.com
 >> Stay informed about: My Saab 93 rolls back although the ignition key is out! 

jack_gats.DeleteThis@yahoo.fr gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

> My mishap was just waiting to occur considering that I went on relying
> on the transmission brake like I had done for so many years with my
> older model.

What "transmission brake"?

Apart from a very few vehicles, handbrakes work on one pair of normal
brakes - usually the rear.

Handbrakes on rear disks are notorious for letting cars go for a wander
as the brakes cool - you pull the handbrake on, just about sufficiently
to hold the car. The brakes cool, the disk shrinks slightly, the
handbrake now doesn't hold the car. The car goes walkabout. With drums
(and some cars which incorporate a drum into the rear disks specifically
for the handbrake) as the brake cools, it shrinks slightly and holds the
brake on harder, not loosens.

Just pull it on, pause, then snug it up another notch.
 >> Stay informed about: My Saab 93 rolls back although the ignition key is out! 

On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 20:08:28 +0000 (UTC), Adrian
wrote:

>jack_gats@yahoo.fr gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:
>
>> My mishap was just waiting to occur considering that I went on relying
>> on the transmission brake like I had done for so many years with my
>> older model.
>
>What "transmission brake"?

On the earlier manual 9-3s, there's an interlock between the ignition
switch and the gear lever. You can't take the key out unless the car
is in reverse. Presumably, it's in lieu of a steering lock, since the
ignition switch isn't on the steering column.

>
>Apart from a very few vehicles, handbrakes work on one pair of normal
>brakes - usually the rear.
>
>Handbrakes on rear disks are notorious for letting cars go for a wander
>as the brakes cool - you pull the handbrake on, just about sufficiently
>to hold the car. The brakes cool, the disk shrinks slightly, the
>handbrake now doesn't hold the car. The car goes walkabout. With drums
>(and some cars which incorporate a drum into the rear disks specifically
>for the handbrake) as the brake cools, it shrinks slightly and holds the
>brake on harder, not loosens.

The old 9-3 hatchback has drums for the handbrake. Not sure about the
SS. The main problem with disk-only handbrakes wasn't self releasing
(just a tiny amount of springiness in the operating mechanism will
sort that out completely) but general poor effectiveness and their
liability to seize. Modern ones are generally much more reliable.

Cheers,

Colin.
 >> Stay informed about: My Saab 93 rolls back although the ignition key is out!