S4 heater not working

Catman wrote in


> PeterMcC wrote:
>> Ideas?
>>
>> S4 - cooling system seems OK, thermostat functioning, fans
>> operating, can't see a problem in that area.
>>
>> Heater barely warmer than ambient and I suspect that what little
>> heat there is comes from the warmth under the bonnet rather than
>> from the heater matrix.
>>
>> I can attach a hose to the heater feed pipe and run clean water out
>> of the heater exit pipe - which indicates that there's no blockage
>> in the heat exchanger and that the heater control valve is opening.
>> I can also run water into the heater inlet and thence through the
>> system so that it eventually appears in the expansion tank - which
>> suggests that there aren't any blockages on the route through.
>>
>> So, as there's nothing wrong with it, why doesn't it work?
>>
>> Any suggestions gratefully received.
>>
>
> I would suggest some kind of thermostat issue, but as to what, seems a
> little odd.

Yes - and, as they're relatively inexpensive and fitted in moments, I'm only
going to scratch my head for so long before I bung a replacement on to at
least eliminate it from the puzzle.

> Do the heater inlet and outlet pipes get hot at all under normal
> operation?

Once the thermostat's open, the inlet gets hot but not the outlet. All the
observable symptoms tell me that there's no water going through the
heater...

....and, whilst thinking about my reply, I've realised that I haven't pulled
the heater return off whilst the engine's running with the thermostat open -
like you do. That would tell me (or I could ask the paramedics later)
whether there's water flowing from the heater whilst the engine's running -
something that I can't observe when pushing water through it from a hose.

Mind you, having seen the other posts in here today, I realise the most
likely explanation is that MI5 have deliberately broken my heater for their
own devious purposes.

I'll let you know what happens with the hose pulling - just as soon as I've
explained to one of the kids exactly what he has to do - and why, despite
appearances, it is completely without risk.

--
PeterMcC
If you feel that any of the above is incorrect,
inappropriate or offensive in any way,
please ignore it and accept my apologies.
 >> Stay informed about: S4 heater not working 

PeterMcC wrote:
> Catman wrote in
>
>
>> PeterMcC wrote:
>>> Ideas?
>>>
>>> S4 - cooling system seems OK, thermostat functioning, fans
>>> operating, can't see a problem in that area.
>>>
>>> Heater barely warmer than ambient and I suspect that what little
>>> heat there is comes from the warmth under the bonnet rather than
>>> from the heater matrix.
>>>
>>> I can attach a hose to the heater feed pipe and run clean water out
>>> of the heater exit pipe - which indicates that there's no blockage
>>> in the heat exchanger and that the heater control valve is opening.
>>> I can also run water into the heater inlet and thence through the
>>> system so that it eventually appears in the expansion tank - which
>>> suggests that there aren't any blockages on the route through.
>>>
>>> So, as there's nothing wrong with it, why doesn't it work?
>>>
>>> Any suggestions gratefully received.
>>>
>> I would suggest some kind of thermostat issue, but as to what, seems a
>> little odd.
>
> Yes - and, as they're relatively inexpensive and fitted in moments, I'm only
> going to scratch my head for so long before I bung a replacement on to at
> least eliminate it from the puzzle.
>
>> Do the heater inlet and outlet pipes get hot at all under normal
>> operation?
>
> Once the thermostat's open, the inlet gets hot but not the outlet. All the
> observable symptoms tell me that there's no water going through the
> heater...
>

So, the fault lies in the matrix somewhere. Bit odd that you can get
water from a hose through, though.

> ...and, whilst thinking about my reply, I've realised that I haven't pulled
> the heater return off whilst the engine's running with the thermostat open -
> like you do. That would tell me (or I could ask the paramedics later)
> whether there's water flowing from the heater whilst the engine's running -
> something that I can't observe when pushing water through it from a hose.
>

I would have to guess that when the engine is running, the stat closes.

> Mind you, having seen the other posts in here today, I realise the most
> likely explanation is that MI5 have deliberately broken my heater for their
> own devious purposes.

Well, that's a given, but it's best not to talk about it.

>
> I'll let you know what happens with the hose pulling - just as soon as I've
> explained to one of the kids exactly what he has to do - and why, despite
> appearances, it is completely without risk.
>

LOL.

--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
116 Giulietta 3.0l Sprint 1.7 156 TS 145 2.0 Cloverleaf 156 V6 2.5 S2
Triumph Sprint ST 1050: It's blue, see.
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
 >> Stay informed about: S4 heater not working 

>> Catman wrote in
>>
>>
>>> PeterMcC wrote:
>>>> Ideas?
>>>>
>>>> S4 - cooling system seems OK, thermostat functioning, fans
>>>> operating, can't see a problem in that area.
>>>>

>>> I would suggest some kind of thermostat issue, but as to what,
>>> seems a little odd.

Spot on!

The thermostat is integral to the thermostat housing so it can't be removed
to check by running the car without it. To test it, I'd put it in a jug of
hot then cold water: it opens, it closes.

In extremis, I put a collar on to the axial rod to hold the thermostat
open - hey presto! The heater works.

Quite what the problem is, I guess I'll never know - but many thanks for the
prod to go back and look at the thermostat again. And now - off to
Alfaholics.

--
PeterMcC
If you feel that any of the above is incorrect,
inappropriate or offensive in any way,
please ignore it and accept my apologies.
 >> Stay informed about: S4 heater not working 

PeterMcC wrote:
>>> Catman wrote in
>>>
>>>
>>>> PeterMcC wrote:
>>>>> Ideas?
>>>>>
>>>>> S4 - cooling system seems OK, thermostat functioning, fans
>>>>> operating, can't see a problem in that area.
>>>>>
>
>>>> I would suggest some kind of thermostat issue, but as to what,
>>>> seems a little odd.
>
> Spot on!
>
> The thermostat is integral to the thermostat housing so it can't be removed
> to check by running the car without it. To test it, I'd put it in a jug of
> hot then cold water: it opens, it closes.
>
> In extremis, I put a collar on to the axial rod to hold the thermostat
> open - hey presto! The heater works.
>
> Quite what the problem is, I guess I'll never know - but many thanks for the
> prod to go back and look at the thermostat again. And now - off to
> Alfaholics.
>

It's a pleasure.

<aside to audience>: Should I tell him I meant the thermostat in the
matrix?

--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
116 Giulietta 3.0l Sprint 1.7 156 TS 145 2.0 Cloverleaf 156 V6 2.5 S2
Triumph Sprint ST 1050: It's blue, see.
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
 >> Stay informed about: S4 heater not working 

Catman wrote in


> PeterMcC wrote:

>>
>> Spot on!
>>
>> The thermostat is integral to the thermostat housing so it can't be
>> removed to check by running the car without it. To test it, I'd put
>> it in a jug of hot then cold water: it opens, it closes.
>>
>> In extremis, I put a collar on to the axial rod to hold the
>> thermostat
>> open - hey presto! The heater works.
>>
>> Quite what the problem is, I guess I'll never know - but many thanks
>> for the prod to go back and look at the thermostat again. And now -
>> off to Alfaholics.
>>
>
> It's a pleasure.
>
> <aside to audience>: Should I tell him I meant the thermostat in the
> matrix?

Thermostat in the matrix? Luxury!

It's all this talk of Maseratis that's turned your head - the heater matrix
on an S4 is managed via the discomfort of the person behind the wheel and is
activated by their sliding of the lever - though there is a two speed heater
fan as well! ISTR that its 1990 contemporary, the 164, had more than 15
buttons to perform the same function.

And a word on Alfaholics - less than 24 hours between diagnosis and driving
around with the new thermostat fitted - main dealers take note.

--
PeterMcC
If you feel that any of the above is incorrect,
inappropriate or offensive in any way,
please ignore it and accept my apologies.
 >> Stay informed about: S4 heater not working 

PeterMcC wrote:
> Catman wrote in
>
>
>> PeterMcC wrote:
>
>>> Spot on!
>>>
>>> The thermostat is integral to the thermostat housing so it can't be
>>> removed to check by running the car without it. To test it, I'd put
>>> it in a jug of hot then cold water: it opens, it closes.
>>>
>>> In extremis, I put a collar on to the axial rod to hold the
>>> thermostat
>>> open - hey presto! The heater works.
>>>
>>> Quite what the problem is, I guess I'll never know - but many thanks
>>> for the prod to go back and look at the thermostat again. And now -
>>> off to Alfaholics.
>>>
>> It's a pleasure.
>>
>> <aside to audience>: Should I tell him I meant the thermostat in the
>> matrix?
>
> Thermostat in the matrix? Luxury!
>
> It's all this talk of Maseratis that's turned your head - the heater matrix
> on an S4 is managed via the discomfort of the person behind the wheel and is
> activated by their sliding of the lever - though there is a two speed heater
> fan as well! ISTR that its 1990 contemporary, the 164, had more than 15
> buttons to perform the same function.

Even my 116 had a wax thermostat in the matrix.....
>
> And a word on Alfaholics - less than 24 hours between diagnosis and driving
> around with the new thermostat fitted - main dealers take note.
>

Indeed.

--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
116 Giulietta 3.0l Sprint 1.7 156 TS 145 2.0 Cloverleaf 156 V6 2.5 S2
Triumph Sprint ST 1050: It's blue, see.
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
 >> Stay informed about: S4 heater not working 

On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 11:59:01 +0000, Catman blather'd thus:

> PeterMcC wrote:
>> Catman wrote in
>>
>>
>>> PeterMcC wrote:
>>
>>>> Spot on!
>>>>
>>>> The thermostat is integral to the thermostat housing so it can't be
>>>> removed to check by running the car without it. To test it, I'd put
>>>> it in a jug of hot then cold water: it opens, it closes.
>>>>
>>>> In extremis, I put a collar on to the axial rod to hold the
>>>> thermostat
>>>> open - hey presto! The heater works.
>>>>
>>>> Quite what the problem is, I guess I'll never know - but many thanks
>>>> for the prod to go back and look at the thermostat again. And now -
>>>> off to Alfaholics.
>>>>
>>> It's a pleasure.
>>>
>>> <aside to audience>: Should I tell him I meant the thermostat in the
>>> matrix?
>>
>> Thermostat in the matrix? Luxury!
>>
>> It's all this talk of Maseratis that's turned your head - the heater
>> matrix on an S4 is managed via the discomfort of the person behind the
>> wheel and is activated by their sliding of the lever - though there is
>> a two speed heater fan as well! ISTR that its 1990 contemporary, the
>> 164, had more than 15 buttons to perform the same function.
>
> Even my 116 had a wax thermostat in the matrix.....
>>
>> And a word on Alfaholics - less than 24 hours between diagnosis and
>> driving around with the new thermostat fitted - main dealers take note.
>>
>>
> Indeed.

Main dealers?!?!

....I wish...

As for the "governed" matrix thingie: just one more widget to go off and
cause money to be spent. feh. What was sooo WRONG with a lever 'n cable
anyway?!?


Stuck in th' '60's. And quite happy, thankewverrymuch.
--
Dr E--
mhm 17x1
SGM #3
smeeter #13
FWAC:"Old No.-7"
Surgeon General-Relativity
Commodore/Upper-Half/1st Virginia Volunteers/CEsium Brigade
NF & TCIB. ATFFFIQ
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The flames kindled on the fourth of July, seventeen hundred and
seventy six, have spread over too much of the globe to be extinguished
by the feeble engines of despotism." -- Thomas Jefferson
 >> Stay informed about: S4 heater not working 

Dr Entropy wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 11:59:01 +0000, Catman blather'd thus:
>
>> PeterMcC wrote:
>>> Catman wrote in
>>>
>>>
>>>> PeterMcC wrote:
>>>>> Spot on!
>>>>>
>>>>> The thermostat is integral to the thermostat housing so it can't be
>>>>> removed to check by running the car without it. To test it, I'd put
>>>>> it in a jug of hot then cold water: it opens, it closes.
>>>>>
>>>>> In extremis, I put a collar on to the axial rod to hold the
>>>>> thermostat
>>>>> open - hey presto! The heater works.
>>>>>
>>>>> Quite what the problem is, I guess I'll never know - but many thanks
>>>>> for the prod to go back and look at the thermostat again. And now -
>>>>> off to Alfaholics.
>>>>>
>>>> It's a pleasure.
>>>>
>>>> <aside to audience>: Should I tell him I meant the thermostat in the
>>>> matrix?
>>> Thermostat in the matrix? Luxury!
>>>
>>> It's all this talk of Maseratis that's turned your head - the heater
>>> matrix on an S4 is managed via the discomfort of the person behind the
>>> wheel and is activated by their sliding of the lever - though there is
>>> a two speed heater fan as well! ISTR that its 1990 contemporary, the
>>> 164, had more than 15 buttons to perform the same function.
>> Even my 116 had a wax thermostat in the matrix.....
>>> And a word on Alfaholics - less than 24 hours between diagnosis and
>>> driving around with the new thermostat fitted - main dealers take note.
>>>
>>>
>> Indeed.
>
> Main dealers?!?!
>
> ...I wish...
>
> As for the "governed" matrix thingie: just one more widget to go off and
> cause money to be spent. feh. What was sooo WRONG with a lever 'n cable
> anyway?!?

116 has both
>
>
> Stuck in th' '60's. And quite happy, thankewverrymuch.

Really? You don't look a day under 70


--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
116 Giulietta 3.0l Sprint 1.7 156 TS 145 2.0 Cloverleaf 156 V6 2.5 S2
Triumph Sprint ST 1050: It's blue, see.
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
 >> Stay informed about: S4 heater not working 

Dr Entropy wrote in


>> PeterMcC wrote:
>>> And a word on Alfaholics - less than 24 hours between diagnosis and
>>> driving around with the new thermostat fitted - main dealers take
>>> note.
>>>

>
> Main dealers?!?!
>
> ...I wish...

I wouldn't if I were you - wherever you are, I wouldn't wish main dealers
upon you or your fellow countrymen.

> As for the "governed" matrix thingie: just one more widget to go off
> and cause money to be spent. feh. What was sooo WRONG with a lever 'n
> cable anyway?!?

Erm...

....the heater does have a lever 'n cable (and a switch and a fan) -
unfortunately, it was the heat that was missing.

> Stuck in th' '60's. And quite happy, thankewverrymuch.

<waves to the '60s>

--
PeterMcC
If you feel that any of the above is incorrect,
inappropriate or offensive in any way,
please ignore it and accept my apologies.
 >> Stay informed about: S4 heater not working 

On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 16:37:38 +0000, Catman blather'd thus:

> Dr Entropy wrote:
>> On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 11:59:01 +0000, Catman blather'd thus:
>>
>>> PeterMcC wrote:
>>>> Catman wrote in
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> PeterMcC wrote:
>>>>>> Spot on!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The thermostat is integral to the thermostat housing so it can't be
>>>>>> removed to check by running the car without it. To test it, I'd put
>>>>>> it in a jug of hot then cold water: it opens, it closes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In extremis, I put a collar on to the axial rod to hold the
>>>>>> thermostat
>>>>>> open - hey presto! The heater works.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Quite what the problem is, I guess I'll never know - but many
>>>>>> thanks for the prod to go back and look at the thermostat again.
>>>>>> And now - off to Alfaholics.
>>>>>>
>>>>> It's a pleasure.
>>>>>
>>>>> <aside to audience>: Should I tell him I meant the thermostat in the
>>>>> matrix?
>>>> Thermostat in the matrix? Luxury!
>>>>
>>>> It's all this talk of Maseratis that's turned your head - the heater
>>>> matrix on an S4 is managed via the discomfort of the person behind
>>>> the wheel and is activated by their sliding of the lever - though
>>>> there is a two speed heater fan as well! ISTR that its 1990
>>>> contemporary, the 164, had more than 15 buttons to perform the same
>>>> function.
>>> Even my 116 had a wax thermostat in the matrix.....
>>>> And a word on Alfaholics - less than 24 hours between diagnosis and
>>>> driving around with the new thermostat fitted - main dealers take
>>>> note.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Indeed.
>>
>> Main dealers?!?!
>>
>> ...I wish...
>>
>> As for the "governed" matrix thingie: just one more widget to go off
>> and cause money to be spent. feh. What was sooo WRONG with a lever 'n
>> cable anyway?!?
>
> 116 has both

Overkill. Redundant to requirement. harumpf.
>>
>>
>> Stuck in th' '60's. And quite happy, thankewverrymuch.
>
> Really? You don't look a day under 70

You're enjoying this.

I can tell.


--
Dr E--
mhm 17x1
SGM #3
smeeter #13
FWAC:"Old No.-7"
Surgeon General-Relativity
Commodore/Upper-Half/1st Virginia Volunteers/CEsium Brigade
NF & TCIB. ATFFFIQ
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The flames kindled on the fourth of July, seventeen hundred and
seventy six, have spread over too much of the globe to be extinguished
by the feeble engines of despotism." -- Thomas Jefferson
 >> Stay informed about: S4 heater not working 

On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 17:56:54 +0000, PeterMcC blather'd thus:

> Dr Entropy wrote in
>
>
>>> PeterMcC wrote:
>>>> And a word on Alfaholics - less than 24 hours between diagnosis and
>>>> driving around with the new thermostat fitted - main dealers take
>>>> note.
>>>>
>>>>
>
>> Main dealers?!?!
>>
>> ...I wish...
>
> I wouldn't if I were you - wherever you are, I wouldn't wish main
> dealers upon you or your fellow countrymen.

CONUS. Not a dealer to be seen. I used to work for one "Back in th' Day".
Some good apres-market outfits still. But all geographically
"inconvenient" for me.
>
>> As for the "governed" matrix thingie: just one more widget to go off
>> and cause money to be spent. feh. What was sooo WRONG with a lever 'n
>> cable anyway?!?
>
> Erm...
>
> ...the heater does have a lever 'n cable (and a switch and a fan) -
> unfortunately, it was the heat that was missing.
>
Musta been that entropy thingie. It got hold of yer heat.

>> Stuck in th' '60's. And quite happy, thankewverrymuch.
>
> <waves to the '60s>

<waves back ~ahead~>

--
Dr E--
mhm 17x1
SGM #3
smeeter #13
FWAC:"Old No.-7"
Surgeon General-Relativity
Commodore/Upper-Half/1st Virginia Volunteers/CEsium Brigade
NF & TCIB. ATFFFIQ
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The flames kindled on the fourth of July, seventeen hundred and
seventy six, have spread over too much of the globe to be extinguished
by the feeble engines of despotism." -- Thomas Jefferson
 >> Stay informed about: S4 heater not working 

Dr Entropy wrote:
> On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 16:37:38 +0000, Catman blather'd thus:
>
>> Dr Entropy wrote:
>>> On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 11:59:01 +0000, Catman blather'd thus:
>>>
>>>> PeterMcC wrote:
>>>>> Catman wrote in
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> PeterMcC wrote:
>>>>>>> Spot on!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The thermostat is integral to the thermostat housing so it can't be
>>>>>>> removed to check by running the car without it. To test it, I'd put
>>>>>>> it in a jug of hot then cold water: it opens, it closes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In extremis, I put a collar on to the axial rod to hold the
>>>>>>> thermostat
>>>>>>> open - hey presto! The heater works.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Quite what the problem is, I guess I'll never know - but many
>>>>>>> thanks for the prod to go back and look at the thermostat again.
>>>>>>> And now - off to Alfaholics.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's a pleasure.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <aside to audience>: Should I tell him I meant the thermostat in the
>>>>>> matrix?
>>>>> Thermostat in the matrix? Luxury!
>>>>>
>>>>> It's all this talk of Maseratis that's turned your head - the heater
>>>>> matrix on an S4 is managed via the discomfort of the person behind
>>>>> the wheel and is activated by their sliding of the lever - though
>>>>> there is a two speed heater fan as well! ISTR that its 1990
>>>>> contemporary, the 164, had more than 15 buttons to perform the same
>>>>> function.
>>>> Even my 116 had a wax thermostat in the matrix.....
>>>>> And a word on Alfaholics - less than 24 hours between diagnosis and
>>>>> driving around with the new thermostat fitted - main dealers take
>>>>> note.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Indeed.
>>> Main dealers?!?!
>>>
>>> ...I wish...
>>>
>>> As for the "governed" matrix thingie: just one more widget to go off
>>> and cause money to be spent. feh. What was sooo WRONG with a lever 'n
>>> cable anyway?!?
>> 116 has both
>
> Overkill. Redundant to requirement. harumpf.
>>>
>>> Stuck in th' '60's. And quite happy, thankewverrymuch.
>> Really? You don't look a day under 70
>
> You're enjoying this.
>
> I can tell.
>
>
It's been too long

--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
116 Giulietta 3.0l Sprint 1.7 156 TS 145 2.0 Cloverleaf 156 V6 2.5 S2
Triumph Sprint ST 1050: It's blue, see.
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
 >> Stay informed about: S4 heater not working