Prius seldom runs on batteries alone?

On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 22:20:58 -0700, Mark A wrote:

> "Gordon McGrew" <RgEmMcOgVrEew DeleteThis @mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:n5q7t2dpf42gmp0vu71qipj66k6p4tbt0i@4ax.com...
>>
>> I rode in a friend's Prius and he showed me that the engine started up
>> before he hit 5 mph even under mild acceleration. I thought the
>> difference between the "full" hybrids like Prius and "mild" hybrids like
>> the Civic was the ability of the former to operate as a pure electric
>> over a modest range of conditions. It would seem that the Prius' all
>> electric performance is very modest indeed. Is this correct?
>
> I believe that the Prius could theoretically start up and mildly
> accelerate with the battery powered electric motor alone (assuming it was
> charged) but there would not be enough horsepower in the electric motor
> alone to satisfy people (and it might not be safe to accelerate so slowly
> in high traffic situations). If not accelerating, then the electric motor
> can sometimes do it alone.


The electric motor has plenty of juice to run the car. There are a LOT of
other factors here...was the heat on? Air Conditioning? lights? Also, the
US models are set up differently from the models used in the rest of the
world...they run on gas more often in North America. This can be changed
by hacking the ECU (and voiding the warranty...)

Also, was the car fully charged? If not, the engine turn on to run the
generator, while the electric motor provides the locomotion. The display
will show you what's happening...
 >> Stay informed about: Prius seldom runs on batteries alone? 

"Gordon McGrew" <RgEmMcOgVrEew RemoveThis @mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:n5q7t2dpf42gmp0vu71qipj66k6p4tbt0i@4ax.com...
>
> I rode in a friend's Prius and he showed me that the engine started up
> before he hit 5 mph even under mild acceleration. I thought the
> difference between the "full" hybrids like Prius and "mild" hybrids
> like the Civic was the ability of the former to operate as a pure
> electric over a modest range of conditions. It would seem that the
> Prius' all electric performance is very modest indeed. Is this
> correct?

You can find more expertise at alt.autos.toyota.prius. They will also want
to know what year, since there are significant differences between the
Classic (2001-2003) and the second generation (2004+). Ours are both
Classics (2002), so I'll go from that perspective.

As the others indicate, there are a lot of variables. Cold weather makes it
much more prone to run the engine in order to produce heat, which passengers
seem to enjoy The state of hybrid battery charge will affect it, too,
including the entirely counter-intuitive behavior of restarting the engine
periodically to bleed off extra charge if the state of charge is high.

Cold weather, particularly as the temperature drops below freezing, will
take the edge off fuel efficiency. I'm barely managing 30 mpg with mainly 3
mile trips in subfreezing weather right now, but when the weather warms up
it will go back into the mid-40s. OTOH, what other car would provide 30 mpg
under those conditions?

Mostly, the hybrid system knows what to do. There have been reports of
misbehavior - especially shuddering when the engine shuts down - that have
been corrected by disconnecting the 12 volt "aux" battery for a few minutes.
Maybe the car should have ctrl-alt-del keys

Mike
 >> Stay informed about: Prius seldom runs on batteries alone? 

"Hachiroku wrote
> On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 22:20:58 -0700, Mark A wrote:
>> "Gordon McGrew" wrote
>>>
>>> I rode in a friend's Prius and he showed me that the engine started up
>>> before he hit 5 mph even under mild acceleration. I thought the
>>> difference between the "full" hybrids like Prius and "mild" hybrids
>>> like
>>> the Civic was the ability of the former to operate as a pure electric
>>> over a modest range of conditions. It would seem that the Prius' all
>>> electric performance is very modest indeed. Is this correct?
>>
>> I believe that the Prius could theoretically start up and mildly
>> accelerate with the battery powered electric motor alone (assuming it
>> was
>> charged) but there would not be enough horsepower in the electric motor
>> alone to satisfy people (and it might not be safe to accelerate so
>> slowly
>> in high traffic situations). If not accelerating, then the electric
>> motor
>> can sometimes do it alone.
>
> The electric motor has plenty of juice to run the car. There are a LOT
> of
> other factors here...was the heat on? Air Conditioning? lights? Also,
> the
> US models are set up differently from the models used in the rest of the
> world...they run on gas more often in North America. This can be changed
> by hacking the ECU (and voiding the warranty...)
>
> Also, was the car fully charged? If not, the engine turn on to run the
> generator, while the electric motor provides the locomotion. The display
> will show you what's happening...
>
I have and drive a Prius. It is just how it is set up. My Prius will
start up in electric when the battery is charged enough and accelerate up
to maybe 40 or so on electric alone - but it is painstakingly slow. One
cannot do this in traffic, thus the need to press down a bit harder and
engage the gas engine. I too would very much like for this car to rely on
the electric much more than it does now.
Tomes
 >> Stay informed about: Prius seldom runs on batteries alone? 

"Gordon McGrew" <RgEmMcOgVrEew DeleteThis @mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:n5q7t2dpf42gmp0vu71qipj66k6p4tbt0i@4ax.com...
>
> I rode in a friend's Prius and he showed me that the engine started up
> before he hit 5 mph even under mild acceleration. I thought the
> difference between the "full" hybrids like Prius and "mild" hybrids
> like the Civic was the ability of the former to operate as a pure
> electric over a modest range of conditions. It would seem that the
> Prius' all electric performance is very modest indeed. Is this
> correct?
---
Incorrect.
The earlier hybrid Civics were mild hybrids meaning the electric motor could
only assist the gasoline engine but could not perform independently. Today's
hybrid Civics are now *full* hybrids.
 >> Stay informed about: Prius seldom runs on batteries alone? 

In article <n5q7t2dpf42gmp0vu71qipj66k6p4tbt0i RemoveThis @4ax.com>
RgEmMcOgVrEew RemoveThis @mindspring.com "Gordon McGrew" writes:

> I rode in a friend's Prius and he showed me that the engine started up
> before he hit 5 mph even under mild acceleration. I thought the
> difference between the "full" hybrids like Prius and "mild" hybrids
> like the Civic was the ability of the former to operate as a pure
> electric over a modest range of conditions.

The point where the petrol engine fires up depends on a mixture
of road speed and load being imposed. "Racing starts" are sure
to get it going at low speeds, in the Mk2 UK "T4" at least. If
just moving away gently from traffic lights (not a common thing
in the US has been my impression <g>), here in the UK I tend to
hit 10mph or so before the petrol engine joins the party.

> It would seem that the Prius' all electric performance is very
> modest indeed. Is this correct?

Google for recent (Jan 2007) posts by me under the Subject 'More
on Prius "EV" mode'. Being all-electric is not the point of the
Prius. Being efficient in its use of fuel is. Huge difference.
--
Andrew Stephenson
 >> Stay informed about: Prius seldom runs on batteries alone? 

In alt.autos.toyota Gordon McGrew <RgEmMcOgVrEew.DeleteThis@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> I rode in a friend's Prius and he showed me that the engine started up
> before he hit 5 mph even under mild acceleration. I thought the
> difference between the "full" hybrids like Prius and "mild" hybrids
> like the Civic was the ability of the former to operate as a pure
> electric over a modest range of conditions. It would seem that the
> Prius' all electric performance is very modest indeed. Is this
> correct?

Yes, except Honda update as another poster noted.

An after-market switch is available to make the current Prius operate
entirely on electric motors, like a Euro model. After Andrew's test
I thought it would not be worthwhile, but I'm having second thoughts.
Steven Scharf (SMS) posted this URL describing how:

http://www.calcars.org/prius-evbutton-install.pdf
 >> Stay informed about: Prius seldom runs on batteries alone? 

"Tomes" <askme.TakeThisOut@here.net> wrote in
news:jWYAh.2397$tD2.642@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net:

> "Hachiroku wrote
>> On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 22:20:58 -0700, Mark A wrote:
>>> "Gordon McGrew" wrote
>>>>
>>>> I rode in a friend's Prius and he showed me that the engine started
>>>> up before he hit 5 mph even under mild acceleration. I thought the
>>>> difference between the "full" hybrids like Prius and "mild" hybrids
>>>> like
>>>> the Civic was the ability of the former to operate as a pure
>>>> electric over a modest range of conditions. It would seem that the
>>>> Prius' all electric performance is very modest indeed. Is this
>>>> correct?
>>>
>>> I believe that the Prius could theoretically start up and mildly
>>> accelerate with the battery powered electric motor alone (assuming
>>> it was
>>> charged) but there would not be enough horsepower in the electric
>>> motor alone to satisfy people (and it might not be safe to
>>> accelerate so slowly
>>> in high traffic situations). If not accelerating, then the electric
>>> motor
>>> can sometimes do it alone.
>>
>> The electric motor has plenty of juice to run the car. There are a
>> LOT of
>> other factors here...was the heat on? Air Conditioning? lights? Also,
>> the
>> US models are set up differently from the models used in the rest of
>> the world...they run on gas more often in North America. This can be
>> changed by hacking the ECU (and voiding the warranty...)
>>
>> Also, was the car fully charged? If not, the engine turn on to run
>> the generator, while the electric motor provides the locomotion. The
>> display will show you what's happening...
>>
> I have and drive a Prius. It is just how it is set up. My Prius will
> start up in electric when the battery is charged enough and accelerate
> up to maybe 40 or so on electric alone - but it is painstakingly slow.
> One cannot do this in traffic, thus the need to press down a bit
> harder and engage the gas engine. I too would very much like for this
> car to rely on the electric much more than it does now.
> Tomes
>
>
>

I've heard of Prius people adding another battery pack(in addition to the
stock one) and 120VAC charger to get better use on the electric side,and
reduce gas usage.Then you can plug it in at night or when you have access
to an outlet.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
 >> Stay informed about: Prius seldom runs on batteries alone? 

A good example of all electric performance that goes well beyond *very
modest* is when a Prius is *instructed* to back up an incline such as a
steep driveway. Mine has yet to revert back to engine power when the
accelerator is *pedal to the metal*.

"Bill Tuthill" <ccreekin RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:45d4c58c@news.meer.net...
> In alt.autos.toyota Gordon McGrew <RgEmMcOgVrEew RemoveThis @mindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>> I rode in a friend's Prius and he showed me that the engine started up
>> before he hit 5 mph even under mild acceleration. I thought the
>> difference between the "full" hybrids like Prius and "mild" hybrids
>> like the Civic was the ability of the former to operate as a pure
>> electric over a modest range of conditions. It would seem that the
>> Prius' all electric performance is very modest indeed. Is this
>> correct?
>
> Yes, except Honda update as another poster noted.
>
> An after-market switch is available to make the current Prius operate
> entirely on electric motors, like a Euro model. After Andrew's test
> I thought it would not be worthwhile, but I'm having second thoughts.
> Steven Scharf (SMS) posted this URL describing how:
>
> http://www.calcars.org/prius-evbutton-install.pdf
>
 >> Stay informed about: Prius seldom runs on batteries alone? 

On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 13:07:27 GMT, "Tomes" <askme.DeleteThis@here.net> wrote:

>"Hachiroku wrote
>> On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 22:20:58 -0700, Mark A wrote:
>>> "Gordon McGrew" wrote
>>>>
>>>> I rode in a friend's Prius and he showed me that the engine started up
>>>> before he hit 5 mph even under mild acceleration. I thought the
>>>> difference between the "full" hybrids like Prius and "mild" hybrids
>>>> like
>>>> the Civic was the ability of the former to operate as a pure electric
>>>> over a modest range of conditions. It would seem that the Prius' all
>>>> electric performance is very modest indeed. Is this correct?
>>>
>>> I believe that the Prius could theoretically start up and mildly
>>> accelerate with the battery powered electric motor alone (assuming it
>>> was
>>> charged) but there would not be enough horsepower in the electric motor
>>> alone to satisfy people (and it might not be safe to accelerate so
>>> slowly
>>> in high traffic situations). If not accelerating, then the electric
>>> motor
>>> can sometimes do it alone.
>>
>> The electric motor has plenty of juice to run the car. There are a LOT
>> of
>> other factors here...was the heat on? Air Conditioning? lights? Also,
>> the
>> US models are set up differently from the models used in the rest of the
>> world...they run on gas more often in North America. This can be changed
>> by hacking the ECU (and voiding the warranty...)
>>
>> Also, was the car fully charged? If not, the engine turn on to run the
>> generator, while the electric motor provides the locomotion. The display
>> will show you what's happening...
>>
>I have and drive a Prius. It is just how it is set up. My Prius will
>start up in electric when the battery is charged enough and accelerate up
>to maybe 40 or so on electric alone - but it is painstakingly slow. One
>cannot do this in traffic, thus the need to press down a bit harder and
>engage the gas engine. I too would very much like for this car to rely on
>the electric much more than it does now.
>Tomes
>

Thanks for the thoughtful comments. I am really just curious about
the state of the technology. Not really interested in purchasing any
current hybrid but I would consider it if the right one existed.
Electric performance is not an issue in this regard - like I said, I
am just curious.

More info on the experience I opened the thread with:

The OAT was about 30F/0C. The engine should have been up to temp at
this point. Lights were on and there were three people in the car. I
don't know the state of the battery but he generally drives like an
old man. Also, the car is a new model, about 2 years old with 7000(!)
miles on it. He mostly drives it to the train station and back. He
indicated that it almost never ran on electric alone and showed me
this by gently accelerating from an electric creep. As best I could
tell, the schematic showed power coming from the engine the moment his
foot hit the gas.
 >> Stay informed about: Prius seldom runs on batteries alone? 

In article <45d4c58c DeleteThis @news.meer.net> ccreekin DeleteThis @yahoo.com "Bill Tuthill" writes:

> An after-market switch is available to make the current Prius operate
> entirely on electric motors, like a Euro model. After Andrew's test
> I thought it would not be worthwhile, but I'm having second thoughts.
> Steven Scharf (SMS) posted this URL describing how:
>
> http://www.calcars.org/prius-evbutton-install.pdf

ISTR more perspectives on this can be had by browsing around the
website priuschat.com -- mostly by folks who wanted to do it and
are mentioning odd details. In a UK Euro-Prius, the "EV" button
occupies the right-hand position of two switch holes to the left
of the steering column. If similar spaces exist in USian models
that would seem a good place to put the control. OTOH, a couple
of postings mentioned re-using controls on the steering wheel.
--
Andrew Stephenson
 >> Stay informed about: Prius seldom runs on batteries alone? 

On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 05:50:19 -0700, "Michael Pardee"
<michaeltnull DeleteThis @cybertrails.com> wrote:

>"Gordon McGrew" <RgEmMcOgVrEew DeleteThis @mindspring.com> wrote in message
>news:n5q7t2dpf42gmp0vu71qipj66k6p4tbt0i@4ax.com...
>>
>> I rode in a friend's Prius and he showed me that the engine started up
>> before he hit 5 mph even under mild acceleration. I thought the
>> difference between the "full" hybrids like Prius and "mild" hybrids
>> like the Civic was the ability of the former to operate as a pure
>> electric over a modest range of conditions. It would seem that the
>> Prius' all electric performance is very modest indeed. Is this
>> correct?
>
>You can find more expertise at alt.autos.toyota.prius. They will also want
>to know what year, since there are significant differences between the
>Classic (2001-2003) and the second generation (2004+). Ours are both
>Classics (2002), so I'll go from that perspective.
>
>As the others indicate, there are a lot of variables. Cold weather makes it
>much more prone to run the engine in order to produce heat, which passengers
>seem to enjoy The state of hybrid battery charge will affect it, too,
>including the entirely counter-intuitive behavior of restarting the engine
>periodically to bleed off extra charge if the state of charge is high.
>
>Cold weather, particularly as the temperature drops below freezing, will
>take the edge off fuel efficiency. I'm barely managing 30 mpg with mainly 3
>mile trips in subfreezing weather right now, but when the weather warms up
>it will go back into the mid-40s. OTOH, what other car would provide 30 mpg
>under those conditions?

In cold weather get 30mpg ? uh, the corolla will easily do that.

>
>Mostly, the hybrid system knows what to do. There have been reports of
>misbehavior - especially shuddering when the engine shuts down - that have
>been corrected by disconnecting the 12 volt "aux" battery for a few minutes.
>Maybe the car should have ctrl-alt-del keys
>
>Mike
>
 >> Stay informed about: Prius seldom runs on batteries alone? 

On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 13:07:27 +0000, Tomes wrote:

> "Hachiroku wrote
>> On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 22:20:58 -0700, Mark A wrote:
>>> "Gordon McGrew" wrote
>>>>
>>>> I rode in a friend's Prius and he showed me that the engine started up
>>>> before he hit 5 mph even under mild acceleration. I thought the
>>>> difference between the "full" hybrids like Prius and "mild" hybrids
>>>> like
>>>> the Civic was the ability of the former to operate as a pure electric
>>>> over a modest range of conditions. It would seem that the Prius' all
>>>> electric performance is very modest indeed. Is this correct?
>>>
>>> I believe that the Prius could theoretically start up and mildly
>>> accelerate with the battery powered electric motor alone (assuming it
>>> was
>>> charged) but there would not be enough horsepower in the electric motor
>>> alone to satisfy people (and it might not be safe to accelerate so
>>> slowly
>>> in high traffic situations). If not accelerating, then the electric
>>> motor
>>> can sometimes do it alone.
>>
>> The electric motor has plenty of juice to run the car. There are a LOT
>> of
>> other factors here...was the heat on? Air Conditioning? lights? Also,
>> the
>> US models are set up differently from the models used in the rest of the
>> world...they run on gas more often in North America. This can be changed
>> by hacking the ECU (and voiding the warranty...)
>>
>> Also, was the car fully charged? If not, the engine turn on to run the
>> generator, while the electric motor provides the locomotion. The display
>> will show you what's happening...
>>
> I have and drive a Prius. It is just how it is set up. My Prius will
> start up in electric when the battery is charged enough and accelerate up
> to maybe 40 or so on electric alone - but it is painstakingly slow. One
> cannot do this in traffic, thus the need to press down a bit harder and
> engage the gas engine. I too would very much like for this car to rely on
> the electric much more than it does now. Tomes


There was a Web site a couple years ago where a guy who is an Electrical
Engineer hacked into the ECU via the ODBII connector, changed the mode,
and then wrote a program in order to control the ECU from the interior
Real Time with a Toshiba Libretto.
 >> Stay informed about: Prius seldom runs on batteries alone? 

On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 18:34:51 -0600, Gordon McGrew wrote:

> On Thu, 15 Feb 2007 13:07:27 GMT, "Tomes" <askme.DeleteThis@here.net> wrote:
>
>>"Hachiroku wrote
>>> On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 22:20:58 -0700, Mark A wrote:
>>>> "Gordon McGrew" wrote
>>>>>
>>>>> I rode in a friend's Prius and he showed me that the engine started
>>>>> up before he hit 5 mph even under mild acceleration. I thought the
>>>>> difference between the "full" hybrids like Prius and "mild" hybrids
>>>>> like
>>>>> the Civic was the ability of the former to operate as a pure electric
>>>>> over a modest range of conditions. It would seem that the Prius' all
>>>>> electric performance is very modest indeed. Is this correct?
>>>>
>>>> I believe that the Prius could theoretically start up and mildly
>>>> accelerate with the battery powered electric motor alone (assuming it
>>>> was
>>>> charged) but there would not be enough horsepower in the electric
>>>> motor alone to satisfy people (and it might not be safe to accelerate
>>>> so slowly
>>>> in high traffic situations). If not accelerating, then the electric
>>>> motor
>>>> can sometimes do it alone.
>>>
>>> The electric motor has plenty of juice to run the car. There are a LOT
>>> of
>>> other factors here...was the heat on? Air Conditioning? lights? Also,
>>> the
>>> US models are set up differently from the models used in the rest of
>>> the world...they run on gas more often in North America. This can be
>>> changed by hacking the ECU (and voiding the warranty...)
>>>
>>> Also, was the car fully charged? If not, the engine turn on to run the
>>> generator, while the electric motor provides the locomotion. The
>>> display will show you what's happening...
>>>
>>I have and drive a Prius. It is just how it is set up. My Prius will
>>start up in electric when the battery is charged enough and accelerate up
>>to maybe 40 or so on electric alone - but it is painstakingly slow. One
>>cannot do this in traffic, thus the need to press down a bit harder and
>>engage the gas engine. I too would very much like for this car to rely
>>on the electric much more than it does now. Tomes
>>
>>
> Thanks for the thoughtful comments. I am really just curious about the
> state of the technology. Not really interested in purchasing any current
> hybrid but I would consider it if the right one existed. Electric
> performance is not an issue in this regard - like I said, I am just
> curious.
>
> More info on the experience I opened the thread with:
>
> The OAT was about 30F/0C. The engine should have been up to temp at this
> point. Lights were on and there were three people in the car. I don't
> know the state of the battery but he generally drives like an old man.
> Also, the car is a new model, about 2 years old with 7000(!) miles on it.
> He mostly drives it to the train station and back. He indicated that it
> almost never ran on electric alone and showed me this by gently
> accelerating from an electric creep. As best I could tell, the schematic
> showed power coming from the engine the moment his foot hit the gas.


Hmmm...I drove a 'classic' for about a week (1999...hey, how'd he do that
when the 'first' year was 2000?) and got to where I could control the gas
engine with my left foot.

Sad thing was, I got better economy for my type of driving with my '95
Tercel Automatic!
 >> Stay informed about: Prius seldom runs on batteries alone?