OEM Cat converter for '02 Impreza?

I would clear the code and then have the car smogged before dropping $800
on a repair that may not be needed. If the car fails the test, now you
know for sure you need a new converter. Passes then the original problem
was just an O2 sensor failure.

--
Message posted using http://www.talkaboutautos.com/group/alt.autos.subaru/
More information at http://www.talkaboutautos.com/faq.html
 >> Stay informed about: OEM Cat converter for '02 Impreza? 

On Jul 2, 2:11 am, "johninKY" wrote:
> I would clear the code and then have the car smogged before dropping $800
> on a repair that may not be needed. If the car fails the test, now you
> know for sure you need a new converter. Passes then the original problem
> was just an O2 sensor failure.
>

Thanks! It's interesting that there is no way of telling is it's the
detector problem or the cat problem.
 >> Stay informed about: OEM Cat converter for '02 Impreza? 

wrote:

> On Jul 2, 2:11 am, "johninKY" wrote:
>
>>I would clear the code and then have the car smogged before dropping $800
>>on a repair that may not be needed. If the car fails the test, now you
>>know for sure you need a new converter. Passes then the original problem
>>was just an O2 sensor failure.
>>
>
>
> Thanks! It's interesting that there is no way of telling is it's the
> detector problem or the cat problem.
>

I think the sensors can be scoped to see if the switching is fast enough
and in the proper range. DO NOT try an ohmmeter reading. Some ohmemeters
will burn out sensors. Thsi may be less of a concern with wideband
sensors - I dunno. I wouldn't risk that.

Carl


--
to reply, change ( .not) to ( .net)
 >> Stay informed about: OEM Cat converter for '02 Impreza? 

Carl 1 Lucky Texan wrote:
> wrote:
>
>> On Jul 2, 2:11 am, "johninKY" wrote:
>>
>>> I would clear the code and then have the car smogged before dropping
>>> $800
>>> on a repair that may not be needed. If the car fails the test, now you
>>> know for sure you need a new converter. Passes then the original
>>> problem
>>> was just an O2 sensor failure.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks! It's interesting that there is no way of telling is it's the
>> detector problem or the cat problem.
>>
>
> I think the sensors can be scoped to see if the switching is fast enough
> and in the proper range. DO NOT try an ohmmeter reading. Some ohmemeters
> will burn out sensors. Thsi may be less of a concern with wideband
> sensors - I dunno. I wouldn't risk that.
>
> Carl
>
>

Try googling some O2 and cat con info. here's coupla sites I found quickly;
http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/ecmsensors/O2sensors.html
http://www.autohausaz.com/html/emissions-oxygen_sensors.html

carl


--
to reply, change ( .not) to ( .net)
 >> Stay informed about: OEM Cat converter for '02 Impreza? 

Carl 1 Lucky Texan wrote:

> Carl 1 Lucky Texan wrote:
>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Jul 2, 2:11 am, "johninKY" wrote:
>>>
>>>> I would clear the code and then have the car smogged before dropping
>>>> $800
>>>> on a repair that may not be needed. If the car fails the test, now you
>>>> know for sure you need a new converter. Passes then the original
>>>> problem
>>>> was just an O2 sensor failure.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks! It's interesting that there is no way of telling is it's the
>>> detector problem or the cat problem.
>>>
>>
>> I think the sensors can be scoped to see if the switching is fast
>> enough and in the proper range. DO NOT try an ohmmeter reading. Some
>> ohmemeters will burn out sensors. Thsi may be less of a concern with
>> wideband sensors - I dunno. I wouldn't risk that.
>>
>> Carl
>>
>>
>
> Try googling some O2 and cat con info. here's coupla sites I found quickly;
> http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/ecmsensors/O2sensors.html
> http://www.autohausaz.com/html/emissions-oxygen_sensors.html
>
> carl
>
>

check this article too;
http://www.troublecodes.net/articles/catfailure/

--
to reply, change ( .not) to ( .net)
 >> Stay informed about: OEM Cat converter for '02 Impreza? 

> > Try googling some O2 and cat con info. here's coupla sites I found quickly;
> >http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/ecmsensors/O2sensors.html
> >http://www.autohausaz.com/html/emissions-oxygen_sensors.html
>
> > carl
>
> check this article too;http://www.troublecodes.net/articles/catfailure/

The latter was a great source, thank you, Carl!
 >> Stay informed about: OEM Cat converter for '02 Impreza? 

You can try installing a spacer on your rear o2 sensor. I have a catless
exhaust on my 03 WRX. The spacer pulls the o2 sensor out of the direct flow
of the exhaust , no CEL and gets threw emissions. Costs about $2. You get 2
spark plug spacers available at any autoparts store. I can dig up the part
number if you need it. You will need to drill out the opening some on the
spacers too.


wrote in message

> My '02 Impreza Outback got 121,000 miles, and my local subaru dealer
> has got a Cat converter check engine code reading.t. They quoted me
> $850 to replace the Cat ($650 part + $200 labor).
>
> All I need is to pass the California smogs. I am not driving the car
> much anymore anyway (gas prices), just keep it in the driveway for an
> occasional camping trip (still cheaper than renting... provided no
> major repair costs) so giving out $800 just to register the thing just
> does not sound right.
>
> Goggling produced a $150 (???) "Catco" converter. Does anyone have
> experience with this beast? Can I bolt it on myself to keep the
> smoggers happy?
>
> Also, I am not sure if the sensor in the car gives a yes/no kind of
> answer, or actually produces a real number. Meaning that if I knew
> that the reading was on the borderline, can I make the car barely pass
> somehow (heard some urban legends on driving on a highway before the
> test).
 >> Stay informed about: OEM Cat converter for '02 Impreza? 

On Jul 3, 8:32 am, "Michael Prosek" wrote:
> You can try installing a spacer on your rear o2 sensor. I have a catless
> exhaust on my 03 WRX. The spacer pulls the o2 sensor out of the direct flow
> of the exhaust , no CEL and gets threw emissions. Costs about $2. You get 2
> spark plug spacers available at any autoparts store. I can dig up the part
> number if you need it. You will need to drill out the opening some on the
> spacers too.

I can see how that can clear the check engine light but how would that
affect the smog check readings?


> wrote in message
>
>
>
> > My '02 Impreza Outback got 121,000 miles, and my local subaru dealer
> > has got a Cat converter check engine code reading.t. They quoted me
> > $850 to replace the Cat ($650 part + $200 labor).
>
> > All I need is to pass the California smogs. I am not driving the car
> > much anymore anyway (gas prices), just keep it in the driveway for an
> > occasional camping trip (still cheaper than renting... provided no
> > major repair costs) so giving out $800 just to register the thing just
> > does not sound right.
>
> > Goggling produced a $150 (???) "Catco" converter. Does anyone have
> > experience with this beast? Can I bolt it on myself to keep the
> > smoggers happy?
>
> > Also, I am not sure if the sensor in the car gives a yes/no kind of
> > answer, or actually produces a real number. Meaning that if I knew
> > that the reading was on the borderline, can I make the car barely pass
> > somehow (heard some urban legends on driving on a highway before the
> > test).
 >> Stay informed about: OEM Cat converter for '02 Impreza? 

Well it wouldnt. They dont do those here, depends on the year car i think.
They just hook mine up and look for codes and do a gas cap pressure test.



wrote in message

> On Jul 3, 8:32 am, "Michael Prosek" wrote:
>> You can try installing a spacer on your rear o2 sensor. I have a catless
>> exhaust on my 03 WRX. The spacer pulls the o2 sensor out of the direct
>> flow
>> of the exhaust , no CEL and gets threw emissions. Costs about $2. You get
>> 2
>> spark plug spacers available at any autoparts store. I can dig up the
>> part
>> number if you need it. You will need to drill out the opening some on the
>> spacers too.
>
> I can see how that can clear the check engine light but how would that
> affect the smog check readings?
>
>
>> wrote in message
>>
>>
>>
>> > My '02 Impreza Outback got 121,000 miles, and my local subaru dealer
>> > has got a Cat converter check engine code reading.t. They quoted me
>> > $850 to replace the Cat ($650 part + $200 labor).
>>
>> > All I need is to pass the California smogs. I am not driving the car
>> > much anymore anyway (gas prices), just keep it in the driveway for an
>> > occasional camping trip (still cheaper than renting... provided no
>> > major repair costs) so giving out $800 just to register the thing just
>> > does not sound right.
>>
>> > Goggling produced a $150 (???) "Catco" converter. Does anyone have
>> > experience with this beast? Can I bolt it on myself to keep the
>> > smoggers happy?
>>
>> > Also, I am not sure if the sensor in the car gives a yes/no kind of
>> > answer, or actually produces a real number. Meaning that if I knew
>> > that the reading was on the borderline, can I make the car barely pass
>> > somehow (heard some urban legends on driving on a highway before the
>> > test).
>
 >> Stay informed about: OEM Cat converter for '02 Impreza? 

On Jul 2, 1:53 am, wrote:
> My '02 Impreza Outback got 121,000 miles, and my local subaru dealer
> has got a Cat converter check engine code reading.t. They quoted me
> $850 to replace the Cat ($650 part + $200 labor).
>
> All I need is to pass the California smogs. I am not driving the car
> much anymore anyway (gas prices), just keep it in the driveway for an
> occasional camping trip (still cheaper than renting... provided no
> major repair costs) so giving out $800 just to register the thing just
> does not sound right.
>
> Goggling produced a $150 (???) "Catco" converter. Does anyone have
> experience with this beast? Can I bolt it on myself to keep the
> smoggers happy?
>
> Also, I am not sure if the sensor in the car gives a yes/no kind of
> answer, or actually produces a real number. Meaning that if I knew
> that the reading was on the borderline, can I make the car barely pass
> somehow (heard some urban legends on driving on a highway before the
> test).

Hey there,

I had a similar problem with my 2001 Impreza Outback and I subscribed
to ALLDATAdiy.com and it has been very useful. I am handy and like to
do things myself and this subscription gives me diagnosis, repair,
TBSs, recalls and labor times.

Check it out - I copied the link below for you.

http://traffic.alldatadiy.com/cgi-bin/redir?pd_link=i1-a44690-o4010-c66365

Andy Deil
 >> Stay informed about: OEM Cat converter for '02 Impreza? 

On Jul 2, 1:53 am, wrote:
> My '02 Impreza Outback got 121,000 miles, and my local subaru dealer
> has got a Cat converter check engine code reading.t. They quoted me
> $850 to replace the Cat ($650 part + $200 labor).
>
> All I need is to pass the California smogs. I am not driving the car
> much anymore anyway (gas prices), just keep it in the driveway for an
> occasional camping trip (still cheaper than renting... provided no
> major repair costs) so giving out $800 just to register the thing just
> does not sound right.
>
> Goggling produced a $150 (???) "Catco" converter. Does anyone have
> experience with this beast? Can I bolt it on myself to keep the
> smoggers happy?
>
> Also, I am not sure if the sensor in the car gives a yes/no kind of
> answer, or actually produces a real number. Meaning that if I knew
> that the reading was on the borderline, can I make the car barely pass
> somehow (heard some urban legends on driving on a highway before the
> test).

Hi all,

I bugged you guys ~2 months ago about a cat converter error code on a
'02 Impreza, and I got some very good suggestions from you.

The problem was an check engine light on (code P0420 - "cat converter
below thershold efficiency"), and my dealer was trying to convince me
to spend $800 on a new CAT. I can't pass the CA smog test with the
test engine light on.

Well, my registration is due in 2 weeks and I just took the car for a
smog test (the dealer protested, saying why bother - well, since the
retests are free, why not).

It passed the smog test ***easily***. At idle the numbers were:
14.6% CO2, 0.1% O2, 17 ppm HC, 0.03% CO, not anywhere close to the max
allowed numbers.

So I runs back to the dealer and ask them just to replace the front O2
sensor. But they *insist* on replacing the cat converter, saying that
if the system says it fails, it fails.

So the question is - how can the cat converter be faulty if the
emissions are fine? Or do the emission people and the cat converter
sensor measure different things?

I can insist on replacing just the O2 sensor ($250 as opposed to $800)
though, but at this point I don't know if I can trust them at all -
unless I misunderstand something.
 >> Stay informed about: OEM Cat converter for '02 Impreza? 

On Aug 25, 5:57 pm, Carl 1 Lucky Texan wrote:
> wrote:
> > On Jul 2, 1:53 am, wrote:
>
> >>My '02 Impreza Outback got 121,000 miles, and my local subaru dealer
> >>has got a Cat converter check engine code reading.t. They quoted me
> >>$850 to replace the Cat ($650 part + $200 labor).
>
> >>All I need is to pass the California smogs. I am not driving the car
> >>much anymore anyway (gas prices), just keep it in the driveway for an
> >>occasional camping trip (still cheaper than renting... provided no
> >>major repair costs) so giving out $800 just to register the thing just
> >>does not sound right.
>
> >>Goggling produced a $150 (???) "Catco" converter. Does anyone have
> >>experience with this beast? Can I bolt it on myself to keep the
> >>smoggers happy?
>
> >>Also, I am not sure if the sensor in the car gives a yes/no kind of
> >>answer, or actually produces a real number. Meaning that if I knew
> >>that the reading was on the borderline, can I make the car barely pass
> >>somehow (heard some urban legends on driving on a highway before the
> >>test).
>
> > Hi all,
>
> > I bugged you guys ~2 months ago about a cat converter error code on a
> > '02 Impreza, and I got some very good suggestions from you.
>
> > The problem was an check engine light on (code P0420 - "cat converter
> > below thershold efficiency"), and my dealer was trying to convince me
> > to spend $800 on a new CAT. I can't pass the CA smog test with the
> > test engine light on.
>
> > Well, my registration is due in 2 weeks and I just took the car for a
> > smog test (the dealer protested, saying why bother - well, since the
> > retests are free, why not).
>
> > It passed the smog test ***easily***. At idle the numbers were:
> > 14.6% CO2, 0.1% O2, 17 ppm HC, 0.03% CO, not anywhere close to the max
> > allowed numbers.
>
> > So I runs back to the dealer and ask them just to replace the front O2
> > sensor. But they *insist* on replacing the cat converter, saying that
> > if the system says it fails, it fails.
>
> > So the question is - how can the cat converter be faulty if the
> > emissions are fine? Or do the emission people and the cat converter
> > sensor measure different things?
>
> > I can insist on replacing just the O2 sensor ($250 as opposed to $800)
> > though, but at this point I don't know if I can trust them at all -
> > unless I misunderstand something.
>
> There is no direct way for the OBDII to measure cat performance other
> than comparing the upstream and downstream sensor values with ideal
> numbers in memory.(basically) So, for most cars, it would be like trying
> to measure one old component using 2 other old components. But a GOOD
> shop should be able to perform tests on the sensors that would show slow
> switching or a failed heater circuit, etc. They should also be able to
> do a tailpipe emissions test. Basically, your dealer is either corrupt
> or incompetent (hard to see a 3rd option here).
>
> This not say its impossible to have more than one bad component. Or,
> indeed, replace one now, and need a second component replaced in a few
> days/weeks w'ever.
>
> try reading a couple of articles here;http://www.troublecodes.net/articles/
>
> OBDII..simply explained
> Cat. Eff. Failures
>
> Carl
>

Carl - so, would a good emission test argue against a bad converter?

My other mechanic says that the upstream sensor fails statistically
more frequently because it experiences more stress (the sensor
generates voltage, right). I kind of buy that.
 >> Stay informed about: OEM Cat converter for '02 Impreza? 

wrote:
> On Jul 2, 1:53 am, wrote:
>
>>My '02 Impreza Outback got 121,000 miles, and my local subaru dealer
>>has got a Cat converter check engine code reading.t. They quoted me
>>$850 to replace the Cat ($650 part + $200 labor).
>>
>>All I need is to pass the California smogs. I am not driving the car
>>much anymore anyway (gas prices), just keep it in the driveway for an
>>occasional camping trip (still cheaper than renting... provided no
>>major repair costs) so giving out $800 just to register the thing just
>>does not sound right.
>>
>>Goggling produced a $150 (???) "Catco" converter. Does anyone have
>>experience with this beast? Can I bolt it on myself to keep the
>>smoggers happy?
>>
>>Also, I am not sure if the sensor in the car gives a yes/no kind of
>>answer, or actually produces a real number. Meaning that if I knew
>>that the reading was on the borderline, can I make the car barely pass
>>somehow (heard some urban legends on driving on a highway before the
>>test).
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I bugged you guys ~2 months ago about a cat converter error code on a
> '02 Impreza, and I got some very good suggestions from you.
>
> The problem was an check engine light on (code P0420 - "cat converter
> below thershold efficiency"), and my dealer was trying to convince me
> to spend $800 on a new CAT. I can't pass the CA smog test with the
> test engine light on.
>
> Well, my registration is due in 2 weeks and I just took the car for a
> smog test (the dealer protested, saying why bother - well, since the
> retests are free, why not).
>
> It passed the smog test ***easily***. At idle the numbers were:
> 14.6% CO2, 0.1% O2, 17 ppm HC, 0.03% CO, not anywhere close to the max
> allowed numbers.
>
> So I runs back to the dealer and ask them just to replace the front O2
> sensor. But they *insist* on replacing the cat converter, saying that
> if the system says it fails, it fails.
>
> So the question is - how can the cat converter be faulty if the
> emissions are fine? Or do the emission people and the cat converter
> sensor measure different things?
>
> I can insist on replacing just the O2 sensor ($250 as opposed to $800)
> though, but at this point I don't know if I can trust them at all -
> unless I misunderstand something.

There is no direct way for the OBDII to measure cat performance other
than comparing the upstream and downstream sensor values with ideal
numbers in memory.(basically) So, for most cars, it would be like trying
to measure one old component using 2 other old components. But a GOOD
shop should be able to perform tests on the sensors that would show slow
switching or a failed heater circuit, etc. They should also be able to
do a tailpipe emissions test. Basically, your dealer is either corrupt
or incompetent (hard to see a 3rd option here).

This not say its impossible to have more than one bad component. Or,
indeed, replace one now, and need a second component replaced in a few
days/weeks w'ever.

try reading a couple of articles here;
http://www.troublecodes.net/articles/

OBDII..simply explained
Cat. Eff. Failures


Carl


--
to reply, change ( .not) to ( .net)
 >> Stay informed about: OEM Cat converter for '02 Impreza?