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Next: TT Gotchas?
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External
Since: Feb 15, 2004
Posts: 1073
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(Msg. 16) Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Maintenance Reminders redux [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Imported from groups: alt>autos>honda (more info?)
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External
Since: Jul 26, 2004
Posts: 72
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(Msg. 17) Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Maintenance Reminders redux [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 14:41:58 -0700, Eric <say.no.RemoveThis@spam.now> wrote:
>So, you asked for service mileage recommendations
I did not ask for recommendations. You supplied some, I assume, in the
interest of continuing the conversation. I replied with some
alternative viewpoints, also in the interest of continuing the
conversation.
Do with them as you wish.
Elliot Richmond
Itinerant astronomy teacher
Freelance science writer |
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External
Since: Dec 15, 2003
Posts: 297
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(Msg. 18) Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Maintenance Reminders redux [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
<tt>Elliot Richmond wrote:</tt>
<br><tt>></tt>
<br><tt>> On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 14:41:58 -0700, Eric <say.no RemoveThis @spam.now>
wrote:</tt>
<br><tt>></tt>
<br><tt>> >So, you asked for service mileage recommendations</tt>
<br><tt>></tt>
<br><tt>> I did not ask for recommendations.</tt><tt></tt>
<p><tt>Your original message...</tt><tt></tt>
<p><tt>> Well, I dug out the owners manual, and looked for a schedule.</tt>
<br><tt>> Instead, it told me that the computer would tell me when the</tt>
<br><tt>> car needed service. No mileage schedule. I remembered the</tt>
<br><tt>> collective wisdom of this group and that this subject was</tt>
<br><tt>> discussed, so <b>I dug through the archives. No mileage schedule.</b></tt>
<br><tt>> <b>I searched the internet. No mileage schedule.</b></tt>
<br><tt>></tt>
<br><tt>> So, I replied to the email from the service facility,</tt>
<br><tt>> explaining that all of the information I had was that the car</tt>
<br><tt>> would tell me when it needed service and if the service manager</tt>
<br><tt>> knew something I did not know, then he should share it with me.</tt>
<br><tt>> Particularly, <b>I wanted to know if there really was a mileage</b></tt>
<br><tt><b>> schedule</b> that supplemented the maintenance minders.</tt>
<br><tt></tt>
<br><tt></tt> </html> >> Stay informed about: Maintenance Reminders redux |
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External
Since: Nov 17, 2006
Posts: 190
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(Msg. 19) Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 2:19 am
Post subject: Re: Maintenance Reminders redux [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 14:41:58 -0700
Eric <say.no RemoveThis @spam.now> wrote:
> So, you asked for service mileage recommendations and I gave you a
> link for a well researched list based on roughly 25 years of empirical
> evidence (one of the owners of that shop is not just a "salesman" but
> also has a degree in mechanical engineering). However, all you appear
He asked for Honda's recommendation. You did not provide that in the
least. Any recommendation of 3000 Miles on today's engines is not well
researched. Not a single auto manufacturer recommends 3000 miles
anymore, and there is a reason.
It is silly to suggest that they give longer recommendations in order
to compete with other manufacturers. Especially for Hondas and Toyotas,
which sell (largely) on a history of longevity. It is not in their best
interest to give a service recommendation that will decrease said
lifespan. That reputation took decades to develop, and can be destroyed
in just a few short years. It would likely be the death of the products
future sales.
--
Joe - Registered Linux User #449481
"Hate is baggage, life is too short to go around pissed off all the
time..."
- Danny, American History X >> Stay informed about: Maintenance Reminders redux |
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External
Since: Feb 15, 2004
Posts: 1073
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(Msg. 20) Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:08 am
Post subject: Re: Maintenance Reminders redux [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Imported from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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External
Since: Feb 15, 2004
Posts: 1073
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(Msg. 21) Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:10 am
Post subject: Re: Maintenance Reminders redux [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Imported from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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External
Since: Jul 26, 2004
Posts: 72
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(Msg. 22) Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Maintenance Reminders redux [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 02:19:53 -0400, Joe LaVigne
<jlavigne.DeleteThis@hits-buffalo.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 14:41:58 -0700
>Eric <say.no.DeleteThis@spam.now> wrote:
>
>> So, you asked for service mileage recommendations <snip>
>He asked for Honda's recommendation. <snip>
Thanks, but actually, I did not ask even for that. I told a tale,
which included a report of my lack of success in finding a recommended
service interval, but that is not the same as asking for one. It may
be a fine point, but recounting an anecdote is not the same as
requesting information.
I am sorry that Eric was offended. Sometimes these things just happen.
I noticed he did reply to the list, but the reply showed up in my
Agent as a graphics file which I did not open. So I do not know what
Eric's reply was.
Elliot Richmond
Itinerant astronomy teacher
Freelance science writer >> Stay informed about: Maintenance Reminders redux |
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External
Since: Dec 15, 2003
Posts: 297
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(Msg. 23) Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 4:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Maintenance Reminders redux [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Elliot Richmond wrote:
>
> On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 02:19:53 -0400, Joe LaVigne
> <jlavigne.RemoveThis@hits-buffalo.com> wrote:
>
> >On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 14:41:58 -0700
> >Eric <say.no.RemoveThis@spam.now> wrote:
> >
> >> So, you asked for service mileage recommendations <snip>
> >He asked for Honda's recommendation. <snip>
>
> Thanks, but actually, I did not ask even for that. I told a tale,
> which included a report of my lack of success in finding a recommended
> service interval, but that is not the same as asking for one. It may
> be a fine point, but recounting an anecdote is not the same as
> requesting information.
>
> I am sorry that Eric was offended. Sometimes these things just happen.
> I noticed he did reply to the list, but the reply showed up in my
> Agent as a graphics file which I did not open. So I do not know what
> Eric's reply was.
>
The reply was html formatted to highlight the following quotes from your
original message.
· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·
Well, I dug out the owners manual, and looked for a schedule.
Instead, it told me that the computer would tell me when the
car needed service. No mileage schedule. I remembered the
collective wisdom of this group and that this subject was
*discussed, so I dug through the archives. No mileage schedule.*
*I searched the internet. No mileage schedule.*
So, I replied to the email from the service facility,
explaining that all of the information I had was that the car
would tell me when it needed service and if the service manager
knew something I did not know, then he should share it with me.
*Particularly, I wanted to know if there really was a mileage*
*schedule that supplemented the maintenance minders.* >> Stay informed about: Maintenance Reminders redux |
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External
Since: Feb 15, 2004
Posts: 1073
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(Msg. 24) Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 5:18 pm
Post subject: Re: Maintenance Reminders redux [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Imported from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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External
Since: Jul 26, 2004
Posts: 72
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(Msg. 25) Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Maintenance Reminders redux [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 16:38:13 -0700, Eric <say.no.TakeThisOut@spam.now> wrote:
>The reply was html formatted to highlight the following quotes from your
>original message.
Okay, if you think I was asking for somebody on the list to supply a
maintenance schedule and you thought you were doing a favor for me by
supplying such a list, then I can see how you might have been
offended.
I have already apologized. Thanks for your help.
Elliot Richmond
Itinerant astronomy teacher
Freelance science writer >> Stay informed about: Maintenance Reminders redux |
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External
Since: Feb 15, 2004
Posts: 1073
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(Msg. 26) Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 6:39 am
Post subject: Re: Maintenance Reminders redux [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Imported from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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External
Since: Jul 26, 2004
Posts: 72
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(Msg. 27) Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:41 am
Post subject: Re: Maintenance Reminders redux [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 06:39:21 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<elmop.RemoveThis@nastydesigns.com> wrote:
>Well, let's see. What are we supposed to take from what you originally
>said:
>
>In article <auc6c3h58i85rchcamapffi1t4iirpijt6.RemoveThis@4ax.com>,
> Elliot Richmond <xmrichmond.RemoveThis@xaustin.xrr.xcom> wrote:
>
>> Particularly, I wanted to know
>> if there really was a mileage schedule that supplemented the
>> maintenance minders.
>
>When you come to the newsgroup and say something like that, the
>implication (remember "conversational implicature"?) is that you're
>asking the readers if THEY know of a mileage schedule.
The only implication I can construct is that the statement was
directed to the service manager at the facility that had sent the
message to me.
Here is the original paragraph in question:
>So, I replied to the email from the service facility, explaining that
>all of the information I had was that the car would tell me when it
>needed service and if the service manager knew something I did not
>know, then he should share it with me. Particularly, I wanted to know
>if there really was a mileage schedule that supplemented the
>maintenance minders.
You did not quote that part about "replied to the service facility."
The question of whether I thought there really was a mileage schedule
had, I thought, already been settled. Here is the previous paragraph:
>Well, I dug out the owners manual, and looked for a schedule. Instead,
>it told me that the computer would tell me when the car needed
>service. No mileage schedule. I remembered the collective wisdom of
>this group and that this subject was discussed, so I dug through the
>archives. No mileage schedule. I searched the internet. No mileage
>schedule.
Notice the repetition for emphasis: "No mileage schedule." It was not
a question; it was a statement.
Eric, and possibly others, were misled by my message and interpreted
it as a request for information, in spite of the fact that I began
the message with.
>I thought the group might appreciate this short tale.
Clearly, my "tale" was not clear to some. But, I am now done with it.
The rest of you may continue to discuss it if you wish, but I would
suggest moving on to some other subject. Such as:
Do synthetics really extend the life of an engine when coupled with an
extended oil change interval to compensate for the extra cost of
synthetics over conventional oils?
Do synthetics really reduce dependency on petroleum based products to
any significant degree considering that in the time it takes to
"consume" five quarts of oil, which can actually be recycled, the car
will consume over 300 gallons of gasoline.
Elliot Richmond
Itinerant astronomy teacher
Freelance science writer >> Stay informed about: Maintenance Reminders redux |
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External
Since: Aug 20, 2006
Posts: 1210
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(Msg. 28) Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:41 am
Post subject: Re: Maintenance Reminders redux [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Elliot Richmond wrote:
<snip pedantry>
> Do synthetics really extend the life of an engine when coupled with an
> extended oil change interval to compensate for the extra cost of
> synthetics over conventional oils?
run doubled service intervals on conventional in your own car, then
report back.
>
> Do synthetics really reduce dependency on petroleum based products to
> any significant degree considering that in the time it takes to
> "consume" five quarts of oil, which can actually be recycled, the car
> will consume over 300 gallons of gasoline.
they can, yes. true synthetics can offer better lubricity and therefore
lower gas consumption. what's the break-even? 0.3% better gas
consumption? anything better than break-even is a benefit. that's not
including lower oil burn-off rates either. >> Stay informed about: Maintenance Reminders redux |
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External
Since: Nov 24, 2006
Posts: 1587
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(Msg. 29) Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:55 am
Post subject: Re: Maintenance Reminders redux [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Elliot Richmond <xmrichmond DeleteThis @xaustin.xrr.xcom> wrote in
news:3199c35adh3k3k771htc1ehd4hkhvees0c@4ax.com:
> On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 15:07:27 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
> <elmop DeleteThis @nastydesigns.com> wrote:
>
>>Also, the car makers are building them to be obsolete.
>
> This may be true, but I see no compelling evidence.
Nor do I. I do see copious evidence of cost-cutting, especially on non-
critical components. This is not the same as building in obsolescence.
> When I was a kid
> in high school, an automobile with 50,000 miles was due for a major
> overhaul. 100,000 miles on an engine was so rare that it was a news
> worth event.
My dad had 140,000 miles on his '58 Dodge Regent (Royal) by 1970. It was
the talk of the neighborhood at the time. The engine smoked and the 2-
speed automatic leaked badly.
> Now cars go 250,000 miles with no replaced engine parts
> at all except for maybe spark plugs and timing belt. And they still
> have good power and compression.
Try over 400K these days.
--
Tegger
The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ >> Stay informed about: Maintenance Reminders redux |
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External
Since: Aug 20, 2006
Posts: 1210
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(Msg. 30) Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:55 am
Post subject: Re: Maintenance Reminders redux [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Tegger wrote:
> Elliot Richmond <xmrichmond DeleteThis @xaustin.xrr.xcom> wrote in
> news:3199c35adh3k3k771htc1ehd4hkhvees0c@4ax.com:
>
>> On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 15:07:27 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
>> <elmop DeleteThis @nastydesigns.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Also, the car makers are building them to be obsolete.
>> This may be true, but I see no compelling evidence.
>
>
>
> Nor do I. I do see copious evidence of cost-cutting, especially on non-
> critical components. This is not the same as building in obsolescence.
there /definitely/ is built-in obsolescence, but it depends on
manufacturer. honda & toyota are finally rumored to be getting into it,
but for the vintage vehicles we drive, it's not an issue.
it's quite a difficult engineering task. in terms of technology
development, it used to be detroit closely followed by the euros. did a
project on it at uni. the crazy thing is, some of it costs more to
implement, but it pays back with increased sales.
>
>
>
>> When I was a kid
>> in high school, an automobile with 50,000 miles was due for a major
>> overhaul. 100,000 miles on an engine was so rare that it was a news
>> worth event.
>
>
>
> My dad had 140,000 miles on his '58 Dodge Regent (Royal) by 1970. It was
> the talk of the neighborhood at the time. The engine smoked and the 2-
> speed automatic leaked badly.
>
>
>
>> Now cars go 250,000 miles with no replaced engine parts
>> at all except for maybe spark plugs and timing belt. And they still
>> have good power and compression.
>
>
> Try over 400K these days.
japanese, not domestic. they're better than they were, but when chevy
make a big deal out of 200k, you know that's stratospheric for them.
contrast that with the high mileage club over at toyota.com! >> Stay informed about: Maintenance Reminders redux |
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