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LS400 r12 / r134a

 
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ib

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Since: Jun 15, 2005
Posts: 15



(Msg. 1) Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 12:37 pm
Post subject: LS400 r12 / r134a
Archived from groups: alt>autos>lexus (more info?)

Anyone know what's involved in upgrading an R12 LS400 to R134a? Or is there
a better way (substitute gas, etc)

Thanks

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kegler

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Since: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 79



(Msg. 2) Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 5:14 pm
Post subject: Re: LS400 r12 / r134a [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

You could hear a pin drop when the almighty "ib" <ib.DeleteThis@o2.co.uk>
addressed his adoring fans with these immortal words:

>Anyone know what's involved in upgrading an R12 LS400 to R134a? Or is there
>a better way (substitute gas, etc)
>
>Thanks
>


have a local A/C repair shop check their MACS (I believe it's called).
It lists every vehicle that has R12 refrigerant and what it takes to
convert to R134A.

Some only require seal changes and a complete flush of the cooling
system. Other cars require replacement of the evaporator tank,
compressor, etc. Consequently, it can be as cheap as a $100 or as
expensive as a thousand dollars (or more). But at a minimum, the
seals must be replaced because the molecules for R134A are half the
size of R12 and even the smallest (existing) leak will lead R134A
twice as fast.

Whatever you do, you MUST *completely* flush out the R12 refrigerant
(not just drain), as the two gasses are not compatible and will
permanently destroy your a/c if they're mixed together AT ALL.

Which begs the question, why do you want to convert? R12, although
expensive, is much more efficient at cooling than R134A. If you have
an efficient system with no leaks, I'd stick with the R12.

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ib

External


Since: Jun 15, 2005
Posts: 15



(Msg. 3) Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 7:18 pm
Post subject: Re: LS400 r12 / r134a [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

<kegler.DeleteThis@bowling.net> wrote in message
news:rhjo82hkdnabjqihff4t12t6kc4v5maovf@4ax.com...
> You could hear a pin drop when the almighty "ib" <ib.DeleteThis@o2.co.uk>
> addressed his adoring fans with these immortal words:
>
>>Anyone know what's involved in upgrading an R12 LS400 to R134a? Or is
>>there
>>a better way (substitute gas, etc)
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>
>
> have a local A/C repair shop check their MACS (I believe it's called).
> It lists every vehicle that has R12 refrigerant and what it takes to
> convert to R134A.
>
> Some only require seal changes and a complete flush of the cooling
> system. Other cars require replacement of the evaporator tank,
> compressor, etc. Consequently, it can be as cheap as a $100 or as
> expensive as a thousand dollars (or more). But at a minimum, the
> seals must be replaced because the molecules for R134A are half the
> size of R12 and even the smallest (existing) leak will lead R134A
> twice as fast.
>
> Whatever you do, you MUST *completely* flush out the R12 refrigerant
> (not just drain), as the two gasses are not compatible and will
> permanently destroy your a/c if they're mixed together AT ALL.
>
> Which begs the question, why do you want to convert? R12, although
> expensive, is much more efficient at cooling than R134A. If you have
> an efficient system with no leaks, I'd stick with the R12.
>
>
R12 is illegal, isn't it, and discontinued many years ago?
 >> Stay informed about: LS400 r12 / r134a 
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kegler

External


Since: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 79



(Msg. 4) Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 7:53 pm
Post subject: Re: LS400 r12 / r134a [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

You could hear a pin drop when the almighty "ib" <ib.RemoveThis@o2.co.uk>
addressed his adoring fans with these immortal words:

>
><kegler.RemoveThis@bowling.net> wrote in message
>news:rhjo82hkdnabjqihff4t12t6kc4v5maovf@4ax.com...
>> You could hear a pin drop when the almighty "ib" <ib.RemoveThis@o2.co.uk>
>> addressed his adoring fans with these immortal words:
>>
>>>Anyone know what's involved in upgrading an R12 LS400 to R134a? Or is
>>>there
>>>a better way (substitute gas, etc)
>>>
>>>Thanks
>>>
>>
>>
>> have a local A/C repair shop check their MACS (I believe it's called).
>> It lists every vehicle that has R12 refrigerant and what it takes to
>> convert to R134A.
>>
>> Some only require seal changes and a complete flush of the cooling
>> system. Other cars require replacement of the evaporator tank,
>> compressor, etc. Consequently, it can be as cheap as a $100 or as
>> expensive as a thousand dollars (or more). But at a minimum, the
>> seals must be replaced because the molecules for R134A are half the
>> size of R12 and even the smallest (existing) leak will lead R134A
>> twice as fast.
>>
>> Whatever you do, you MUST *completely* flush out the R12 refrigerant
>> (not just drain), as the two gasses are not compatible and will
>> permanently destroy your a/c if they're mixed together AT ALL.
>>
>> Which begs the question, why do you want to convert? R12, although
>> expensive, is much more efficient at cooling than R134A. If you have
>> an efficient system with no leaks, I'd stick with the R12.
>>
>>
>R12 is illegal, isn't it, and discontinued many years ago?
>
>

No it's still available for cars that use it. However, it's very
expensive. It's legal to fill cars requiring R12 but it's not
legal to retrofit a modern a/c system, (if it's even possible), for
R12.

The R12 that's available today is actually reclaimed "dirty" R12
that's been cleaned and recycled. The actual (legal) production of
R12 ceased in Jan 1996, hence the reason that R12 is about 3 or 4
times more expensive per pound than modern refrigerants.

For example a 30lb cylinder of R134A is approximately $200, where
a 30lb cylinder of R12 (CFC12) is almost $500. That's wholesale to a
licensed a/c technician. Expect about a 40-50% markup from there for
consumers. To completely flush/refill an R12 system can easily run
$500 and up.
 >> Stay informed about: LS400 r12 / r134a 
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Jerohm

External


Since: Feb 07, 2005
Posts: 51



(Msg. 5) Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:08 pm
Post subject: Re: LS400 r12 / r134a [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"ib" <ib.TakeThisOut@o2.co.uk> wrote in message
news:80_ig.18617$x53.10464@newsfe1-win.ntli.net...
>
>

> R12 is illegal, isn't it, and discontinued many years ago?
>
True, sort of... it is just no longer manufactured (legally), and can't be
used in new applications... at least in the US. Shops are required to
collect (and save) it during conversions, but it CAN be reused. They must
NOT refill it into a system with a leak. The leak must FIRST be identified
and fixed. And if you are at a shop with a unit that is not getting cold,
it is ASSUMED there MUST be a leak. They insert a UV dye into the existing
system and look for leaks. Many times it is just due to seepage at the
component joints over time. It is NOT cheap however; I believe about $50/lb
a couple of years ago.. only to get even more expensive. If an obvious leak
can't be identified, it is pretty much a toss up on the cost of a conversion
or refill (boost). As stated before, a conversion requires no major part
replacements other than some seals. I had it done a few years ago for <
$200, and it is still working just fine.
 >> Stay informed about: LS400 r12 / r134a 
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