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How are these Japanese luxury brands doing these days?

 
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DaveW

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Since: Apr 26, 2004
Posts: 11



(Msg. 31) Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 6:55 pm
Post subject: Re: How are these Japanese luxury brands doing these days? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>autos>infiniti>q45, others (more info?)

On 2 May 2007 05:04:53 -0700, ACAR <dimndsonmywndshld.DeleteThis@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>While I generally agree with this assessment lets not forget that for
>the VAST majority of drivers the speed difference between a Lexus and
>BMW (with similar HP to weight ratio) being hustled down a public road
>won't amount to anything significant. And if you live where winter
>ravages the roads, a softer sprung car is sometimes faster.
>
>The RWD Infiniti cars prove BMW and MB don't have a lock on "drivers
>car" territory. To be fair, any owner of a RWD sports car (lots of
>Miata owners out there) already knows this better than any sedan
>driver. I'll go out on a limb and predict that once GM's new RWD
>sporty cars hit the market and more folks get exposed to RWD dynamics
>that BMW/MB mystique is gonna fade.

And Lexus doesn't make RWD cars.... except, of course, the IS, the GS
and the LS.

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kitzler

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Since: Dec 03, 2007
Posts: 7



(Msg. 32) Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 4:54 am
Post subject: Re: How are these Japanese luxury brands doing these days? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

>
> What kind of an idiot keeps a car that makes him so unhappy?

You guys and gals forget that a kar, no matter what brand it may be, a
car will not perform unless the driver knows how to drive...my AWD
Lexus corneres better than any German or US rear or front wheel drive
I have ever owned or rented....

Sure every brand of car has its inherent roadworthiness, and sure you
can't put a car through its paces any more without getting a ticket
from John Law, so we are left with really two choices, styling appeal/
comfort and, no hidden surprises, ergo reliability.......

in the first case, it is very judgemental, the Audi grille is about
as ugly as they come with their pseudo Olympic logo etched in Kapital
Letters, and the Japanese designs are not very innovative either
(witness the Nissan taillights), but in the case for not leaving you
stranded or with a hefty repair bill, the Japanese outshine all
others, US, European and other Asian brands combined, except perhaps
for the Koreans, but there I am still on the learning curve.......

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David13

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Since: Feb 11, 2004
Posts: 14



(Msg. 33) Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 11:18 am
Post subject: Re: How are these Japanese luxury brands doing these days? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"DaveW" <yzfr1ny.DeleteThis@yahooooo.com> wrote in message
news:fc2i335pdfji25nbf2p9bhn6vs9tb72nih@4ax.com...
> On 2 May 2007 05:04:53 -0700, ACAR <dimndsonmywndshld.DeleteThis@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>>While I generally agree with this assessment lets not forget that for
>>the VAST majority of drivers the speed difference between a Lexus and
>>BMW (with similar HP to weight ratio) being hustled down a public road
>>won't amount to anything significant. And if you live where winter
>>ravages the roads, a softer sprung car is sometimes faster.
>>
>>The RWD Infiniti cars prove BMW and MB don't have a lock on "drivers
>>car" territory. To be fair, any owner of a RWD sports car (lots of
>>Miata owners out there) already knows this better than any sedan
>>driver. I'll go out on a limb and predict that once GM's new RWD
>>sporty cars hit the market and more folks get exposed to RWD dynamics
>>that BMW/MB mystique is gonna fade.
>
> And Lexus doesn't make RWD cars.... except, of course, the IS, the GS
> and the LS.

Don't forget the SC!
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DaveW

External


Since: Apr 26, 2004
Posts: 11



(Msg. 34) Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 5:55 pm
Post subject: Re: How are these Japanese luxury brands doing these days? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Thu, 3 May 2007 11:18:57 -0500, "David" <drnall DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote:

>
>"DaveW" <yzfr1ny DeleteThis @yahooooo.com> wrote in message
>news:fc2i335pdfji25nbf2p9bhn6vs9tb72nih@4ax.com...
>> On 2 May 2007 05:04:53 -0700, ACAR <dimndsonmywndshld DeleteThis @yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>While I generally agree with this assessment lets not forget that for
>>>the VAST majority of drivers the speed difference between a Lexus and
>>>BMW (with similar HP to weight ratio) being hustled down a public road
>>>won't amount to anything significant. And if you live where winter
>>>ravages the roads, a softer sprung car is sometimes faster.
>>>
>>>The RWD Infiniti cars prove BMW and MB don't have a lock on "drivers
>>>car" territory. To be fair, any owner of a RWD sports car (lots of
>>>Miata owners out there) already knows this better than any sedan
>>>driver. I'll go out on a limb and predict that once GM's new RWD
>>>sporty cars hit the market and more folks get exposed to RWD dynamics
>>>that BMW/MB mystique is gonna fade.
>>
>> And Lexus doesn't make RWD cars.... except, of course, the IS, the GS
>> and the LS.
>
>Don't forget the SC!

Oops, and to think I've owned two of them (first generation).
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Kikune Mikutamo

External


Since: Apr 28, 2007
Posts: 4



(Msg. 35) Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 3:55 am
Post subject: Re: How are these Japanese luxury brands doing these days? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"kitzler" <njanus.DeleteThis@optonline.net> wrote:
> > What kind of an idiot keeps a car that makes him so unhappy?
>
> You guys and gals forget that a kar, no matter what brand it may be, a
> car will not perform unless the driver knows how to drive...my AWD
> Lexus corneres better than any German or US rear or front wheel drive
> I have ever owned or rented....

So, you owned a VW Beetle and rented a Ford Tempo?
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e2vincent

External


Since: May 06, 2007
Posts: 1



(Msg. 36) Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 7:41 am
Post subject: Re: How are these Japanese luxury brands doing these days? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

I have the same thought too. McBrue comments to me is always 'blah-
blah-blah", doesn't make sense at all.

It seems like he spent $70K on a car just to bitch about it.

Don't you know how to 'test drive' before purchasing car ?

V.

On Apr 28, 6:25 am, DaveW <yzfr....DeleteThis@yahoooo.com> wrote:
> On 27 Apr 2007 22:40:56 -0700, mcbrue <mcb....DeleteThis@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >It would take me several pages, perhaps a short book, to list all the
> >ways that my 06 LS430 premium whatsit version comes up short in
> >comparison to any german kar.
>
> What kind of an idiot keeps a car that makes him so unhappy?
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norak

External


Since: May 06, 2007
Posts: 3



(Msg. 37) Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 10:16 am
Post subject: Re: How are these Japanese luxury brands doing these days? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Apr 3, 8:57 am, "mcbrue" <mcb... DeleteThis @aol.com> wrote:
> Lexus is a great disappointment if you have ever driven a Mercedes. It
> is a noisy, rough, small car engineered for show, not go. It is not
> even civilized.

Many of these reliability problems you cite may just be individual
variation. You can have a look at the reliability surveys, which take
into account many people's experiences with cars, and this gives
better results because it doesn't overstate the experience of a few
people.

With regards to the noise, the Lexus LS460's interior has sound rating
of about 20 decibels. On an average car it's about 40 decibels. Which
Mercedes were you referring to when you said the Mercedes is quiete?.
You need to specify the model, not just the brand because different
models are different even if they share the same brand.
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norak

External


Since: May 06, 2007
Posts: 3



(Msg. 38) Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 10:28 am
Post subject: Re: How are these Japanese luxury brands doing these days? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Apr 29, 11:37 am, "Kikune Mikutamo" <mun... DeleteThis @doesntexist.org> wrote:
> "Ice" <iceplan... DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote:
> I doubt the typical BMW owner ranks "reliability" tops. They sure as
> hell wouldn't rank "isolation" high either. Their electronics, in terms
> of I-Drive, are almost universally reviled. But performance?
> Got a Lexus you'd like to line up against an M3?
>

Not yet, but I hear performance Lexuses are coming in the future in
the F series. But your observation seems accurate. Many people do like
being isolated from the road. I myself would like to get from A to B
in as much comfort as possible.
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Max

External


Since: Jan 19, 2007
Posts: 61



(Msg. 39) Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 11:59 am
Post subject: Re: How are these Japanese luxury brands doing these days? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On 6 May 2007 07:41:55 -0700, e2vincent.DeleteThis@gmail.com graced this
newsgroup with:

>I have the same thought too. McBrue comments to me is always 'blah-
>blah-blah", doesn't make sense at all.
>
>It seems like he spent $70K on a car just to bitch about it.
>
>Don't you know how to 'test drive' before purchasing car ?
>
>V.
>
>On Apr 28, 6:25 am, DaveW <yzfr....DeleteThis@yahoooo.com> wrote:
>> On 27 Apr 2007 22:40:56 -0700, mcbrue <mcb....DeleteThis@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>> >It would take me several pages, perhaps a short book, to list all the
>> >ways that my 06 LS430 premium whatsit version comes up short in
>> >comparison to any german kar.
>>
>> What kind of an idiot keeps a car that makes him so unhappy?
>


you're making the dangerous assumption that he even owns one.
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DaveW

External


Since: Apr 26, 2004
Posts: 11



(Msg. 40) Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 4:55 pm
Post subject: Re: How are these Japanese luxury brands doing these days? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 19:37:11 -0600, "Kikune Mikutamo"
<munged.TakeThisOut@doesntexist.org> wrote:

>I doubt the typical BMW owner ranks "reliability" tops. They sure as
>hell wouldn't rank "isolation" high either. Their electronics, in terms
>of I-Drive, are almost universally reviled. But performance?
>Got a Lexus you'd like to line up against an M3?

The IS-F, in dealerships in early '08, will cost about the same as an
M3, be about the same size, and have about 70 more horsepower.
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norak

External


Since: May 06, 2007
Posts: 3



(Msg. 41) Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 10:43 pm
Post subject: Re: How are these Japanese luxury brands doing these days? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On May 8, 5:25 am, DaveW <yzfr....TakeThisOut@yahooooo.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 19:37:11 -0600, "Kikune Mikutamo"
>
> <mun....TakeThisOut@doesntexist.org> wrote:
> >I doubt the typical BMW owner ranks "reliability" tops. They sure as
> >hell wouldn't rank "isolation" high either. Their electronics, in terms
> >of I-Drive, are almost universally reviled. But performance?
> >Got a Lexus you'd like to line up against an M3?
>
> The IS-F, in dealerships in early '08, will cost about the same as an
> M3, be about the same size, and have about 70 more horsepower.

The BMW M3 has 420 hp. That would mean the IS-F would have 490 hp. I
heard Lexus say power would be over 400 but I haven't heard anyone say
whether it would be 490.
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DaveW

External


Since: Apr 28, 2007
Posts: 17



(Msg. 42) Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 7:55 am
Post subject: Re: How are these Japanese luxury brands doing these days? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On 7 May 2007 22:43:10 -0700, norak <k.norak RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:

>On May 8, 5:25 am, DaveW <yzfr... RemoveThis @yahooooo.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 19:37:11 -0600, "Kikune Mikutamo"
>>
>> <mun... RemoveThis @doesntexist.org> wrote:
>> >I doubt the typical BMW owner ranks "reliability" tops. They sure as
>> >hell wouldn't rank "isolation" high either. Their electronics, in terms
>> >of I-Drive, are almost universally reviled. But performance?
>> >Got a Lexus you'd like to line up against an M3?
>>
>> The IS-F, in dealerships in early '08, will cost about the same as an
>> M3, be about the same size, and have about 70 more horsepower.
>
>The BMW M3 has 420 hp. That would mean the IS-F would have 490 hp. I
>heard Lexus say power would be over 400 but I haven't heard anyone say
>whether it would be 490.

An M3 has 333 hp.
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Ray O

External


Since: Jun 02, 2006
Posts: 4627



(Msg. 43) Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 10:34 am
Post subject: Re: How are these Japanese luxury brands doing these days? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"DaveW" <yzfr1ny.DeleteThis@yahoooo.com> wrote in message
news:p7p043h51u7fs68q1jct0shel38rt4hicl@4ax.com...
> On 7 May 2007 22:43:10 -0700, norak <k.norak.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On May 8, 5:25 am, DaveW <yzfr....DeleteThis@yahooooo.com> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 19:37:11 -0600, "Kikune Mikutamo"
>>>
>>> <mun....DeleteThis@doesntexist.org> wrote:
>>> >I doubt the typical BMW owner ranks "reliability" tops. They sure as
>>> >hell wouldn't rank "isolation" high either. Their electronics, in
>>> >terms
>>> >of I-Drive, are almost universally reviled. But performance?
>>> >Got a Lexus you'd like to line up against an M3?
>>>
>>> The IS-F, in dealerships in early '08, will cost about the same as an
>>> M3, be about the same size, and have about 70 more horsepower.
>>
>>The BMW M3 has 420 hp. That would mean the IS-F would have 490 hp. I
>>heard Lexus say power would be over 400 but I haven't heard anyone say
>>whether it would be 490.
>
> An M3 has 333 hp.

In the "future vehicles" section at bmwusa.com, BMW says that the new M3
will have 420 HP.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)
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ACAR

External


Since: May 09, 2007
Posts: 10



(Msg. 44) Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 9:08 pm
Post subject: Re: How are these Japanese luxury brands doing these days? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On May 8, 11:34 am, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:
>
> In the "future vehicles" section at bmwusa.com, BMW says that the new M3
> will have 420 HP.
> --
>
> Ray O

2008 Corvette will have a 430 HP engine standard. Weighs a bit less
than those sedans, too. Corvette's not a luxury car? Well, if Dave can
tell me the Lexus LS is a driver's car, I can call the 'Vette a luxury
car, OK?
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DaveW

External


Since: Apr 28, 2007
Posts: 17



(Msg. 45) Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 8:00 am
Post subject: Re: How are these Japanese luxury brands doing these days? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On 10 May 2007 21:08:24 -0700, ACAR <getoutanpush.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On May 8, 11:34 am, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:
>>
>> In the "future vehicles" section at bmwusa.com, BMW says that the new M3
>> will have 420 HP.
>> --
>>
>> Ray O
>
>2008 Corvette will have a 430 HP engine standard. Weighs a bit less
>than those sedans, too. Corvette's not a luxury car? Well, if Dave can
>tell me the Lexus LS is a driver's car, I can call the 'Vette a luxury
>car, OK?

First, I never said that.

Second, you can call a head of lettuce a kumquat for all I care, that
won't mean the rest of the world will have to abide by your rules.
Whatever arbitrary standards you've decided make a car a "driver's
car", they're yours, not mine.
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