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External
Since: Jul 31, 2005
Posts: 23
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:33 pm
Post subject: How are these Japanese luxury brands doing these days?
Archived from groups: alt>autos>infiniti>q45, others (more info?)
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I am trying to gauge on how well are these three Japanese luxury car
makers doing at the present. It is my impression that the market seems
to cool down for them. Either they do not offer some appealing
products, the american cars are getting better and offer better
values, their Japanese siblings (Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mazda) are
more appealing and cheaper to the people, or they do not meet with the
high end luxury car's expectation. Is it any of the above?
Are they doing well in comparison to other car makers, particularly
the german car manufacturers? The Japanese luxury cars do not seem to
give a "shock and awe" products at the moment. Despite of the problems
and dissatisfaction toward quality of German luxury cars, Audis, Benz
and Bimmer seem to offer lots of exciting, new products. Am I correct
on this? Do young professionals, business type people prefer to get a
Bimmer than a GS or TL or a G35? Does Audi offer better products in
their S4, S6 and S8? Strangely, those products seem to have low long
term satisfaction from their owners. Do these people look for quality,
style, or sheer performance? Could Japanese car makers ever match the
performance of German luxury cars?
I noticed that Benz has a variety of products that they offer. The
Japanese counterparts only offer one type for each categories (Lexus
IS, GS, ES, RX, LS or Acura RSX,CSX,TL,EL, RDX and MDX, or Infiniti
G35, and M35?). Should these Japanese Luxury car makers try to go into
more product varieries?
Or... is it really that BMW engine is the ultimate driving machine?
I have not heard people raving about a Honda TL or EL. There are not
too many GS430 or 450h on the street. Infiniti G or M35 looks nice,
and solid, but they do not stand out in the crowd. They seem to be
too quiet these days... or run out of steam?
Just curious! |
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External
Since: Mar 23, 2007
Posts: 1
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:03 am
Post subject: Re: How are these Japanese luxury brands doing these days? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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External
Since: May 08, 2005
Posts: 721
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 9:55 pm
Post subject: Re: How are these Japanese luxury brands doing these days? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Lexus is the top selling luxury brand in the US and continues to gain
market share. Acura's TSX has the highest resale value in it's class.
Those who are seeking the hottest/trendiest/flashiest vehicle and plan
to get ride of it by the time the warranty is over are still fawning
over European brands, but other than that bunch the market continues to
trend heavily towards the Japanese brands. Infiniti seems to be the one
Japanese brand which is chasing the trendy crowd.
John >> Stay informed about: How are these Japanese luxury brands doing these days? |
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External
Since: Mar 30, 2007
Posts: 1
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 8:42 pm
Post subject: Re: How are these Japanese luxury brands doing these days? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Lexus has the highest sales in the US, higher than any other luxury
car maker, but in Europe people don't tend to like Lexus. It's hard to
know why, but in Europe automotive tastes seem to differ
significantly. E.g. virtually everyone in Continental Europe drives
with manual transmission and if you don't people look down on you. In
America most drive automatics. Lexuses tend to be more reliable and
refined than other luxury cars, so perhaps the difference in sales
reflect American consumers' utilitarianism and individualism versus
the European consumers' snobbery.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexus >> Stay informed about: How are these Japanese luxury brands doing these days? |
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External
Since: Apr 15, 2006
Posts: 27
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:53 am
Post subject: Re: How are these Japanese luxury brands doing these days? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>autos>acura (more info?)
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On Mar 23, 1:33 am, anira....RemoveThis@yahoo.com wrote:
> I am trying to gauge on how well are these three Japanese luxury car
> makers doing at the present. It is my impression that the market seems
> to cool down for them.
snip
IMHO, in the USA, the only one having a significant cool-down is
Acura. Honda decided to invest more in light trucks than in cars so
all Acura has to offer are warmed-over, FWD Accords (Acura TL and
TSX), an over-priced RL and SUVs. Their SUVs may be good all weather
highway vehicles but they're too late to market. On the other hand,
you can make quite a good deal on a TL.
Lexus (Toyota's luxo-brand) is doing very well with new products in
the pipeline. Infiniti (Nissan) is attempting to meet BMW's
performance standards with their G35/G37 sedan/coupe and M35/M45. As
another poster explained, those who lease a car for the life the
warranty are probably still buying BMW but those who hold onto a car
longer are probably going to buy from either of the more reliable
Infiniti or Lexus brands. MB and Audi both are attempting to address
significant quality control issues.
YMMV >> Stay informed about: How are these Japanese luxury brands doing these days? |
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External
Since: Jul 05, 2003
Posts: 196
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:55 pm
Post subject: Re: How are these Japanese luxury brands doing these days? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>autos>infiniti>q45, others (more info?)
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On 22 Mar 2007 22:33:49 -0700, aniramca.RemoveThis@yahoo.com wrote:
> The Japanese luxury cars do not seem to
>give a "shock and awe" products at the moment.
I saw an article that says Lexus is going to introduce some super-lux
models so yes, they seem to agree with your basic observation.
Acura, just doesn't seem to care, they make money on what they have
even without an NSX for image, but really what did the NSX ever do for
TL sales?
I still wish Honda/Acura would put out some V8 vehicles, but the RL
body is probably just a little tight for it, and the cost of building
on a new body is too high. They'd probably sell some in SUV bodies,
but high powered FWD utilities vehicles wouldn't shock or awe anybody.
But hey, an S4000 (or Acura badge whatever) to go against the X8 ...
.... would harsh their fleet mileage, too.
J. >> Stay informed about: How are these Japanese luxury brands doing these days? |
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External
Since: Dec 05, 2006
Posts: 21
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:05 am
Post subject: Re: How are these Japanese luxury brands doing these days? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Mar 23, 1:33 am, anira....TakeThisOut@yahoo.com wrote:
> I am trying to gauge on how well are these three Japanese luxury car
> makers doing at the present.
Don't know your age group, but when I was a kid in the fifties, an
Oldsmobile super 88 was the supercar, way before the Pontiac
Bonneville appeared on the scene. Why? Because it performed close to
a muscle car of the sixties, otherwise the drive train was identical
to a Chevy's.... would I buy a supercar today, yes, I would opt for a
Mercedes, had two in fact before my Lexus GS300.... why did I pick
Lexus or rather Japanese over the Germans, because (1) Everything was
included essentially in one package, no funky long list of options
especially like on a GM or BMW product, also (2) Going back to the
dealer is expensive, and Japanese cars essentially are change the oil
and rotate the tires... if you need a (3) Higher resale value, which
may be moot when talking about the Germans, but certainly a propos
when thinking of a domestic product...
/N. >> Stay informed about: How are these Japanese luxury brands doing these days? |
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External
Since: Jul 05, 2003
Posts: 196
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:55 pm
Post subject: Re: How are these Japanese luxury brands doing these days? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 00:54:57 GMT, John Horner <jthorner.DeleteThis@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>Lexus is the top selling luxury brand in the US and continues to gain
>market share. Acura's TSX has the highest resale value in it's class.
Maybe that's why the lease pricing has gotten better since
introduction, a good record is probably worth $10/20 per month.
J. >> Stay informed about: How are these Japanese luxury brands doing these days? |
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External
Since: May 08, 2005
Posts: 721
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:57 am
Post subject: Re: How are these Japanese luxury brands doing these days? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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JXStern wrote:
>
> I still wish Honda/Acura would put out some V8 vehicles, but the RL
> body is probably just a little tight for it, and the cost of building
> on a new body is too high.
I doubt we will ever see V-8 powered Hondas. Honda's view seems to be
that the V-6 is all the motor any street car ever will need. Remember
that Honda is led first and foremost by engineers, everyone else is
supporting cast. The engineers see a future where more fuel efficiency
is needed and don't see any reason to make bigger more fuel thirst
engines. They really don't care that this means ignoring certain market
segments. Toyota and Honda obviously have different operating
principles. Toyota is focused on the mission to provide a vehicle for
every purse and purpose, as Alfred Sloan of GM's great years famously
said. Honda is a rifle shot competitor which takes as it's prime
directive "being a company society wants to have exist". Honda thus
puts it's speculative money and effort into small jet airplane
development and robot development while Honda's products are rifle shots
at particular market segments. It is interesting that in Japan Honda is
now the #2 automaker behind Toyota after unseating Nissan from that
spot. Considering that when Honda first moved up from motorcycles to
automobiles the Japanese government tried to stop them this is a very
interesting development. Also, Honda has far fewer base designs and
models than does Toyota. Basically Honda has the Civic platform, the
Accord platform, the Odyssey platform, the Fit platform. It is truly
stunning how many successful products they spin out of those. >> Stay informed about: How are these Japanese luxury brands doing these days? |
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External
Since: Jul 05, 2003
Posts: 196
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:44 am
Post subject: Re: How are these Japanese luxury brands doing these days? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 03:57:13 GMT, John Horner <jthorner.DeleteThis@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>JXStern wrote:
>
>> I still wish Honda/Acura would put out some V8 vehicles, but the RL
>> body is probably just a little tight for it, and the cost of building
>> on a new body is too high.
>
>I doubt we will ever see V-8 powered Hondas. Honda's view seems to be
>that the V-6 is all the motor any street car ever will need.
Well I know, and that's probably true, now that they're finally
getting into turbos, too, if only with the 4 so far here in the US,
.... but I can still wish!
> Remember
>that Honda is led first and foremost by engineers, everyone else is
>supporting cast.
Yeah, I grok marketing, at least a little. I admit, from an
engineering point of view, there's little need.
> The engineers see a future where more fuel efficiency
>is needed and don't see any reason to make bigger more fuel thirst
>engines. They really don't care that this means ignoring certain market
>segments.
Yah.
>Toyota and Honda obviously have different operating
>principles. Toyota is focused on the mission to provide a vehicle for
>every purse and purpose, as Alfred Sloan of GM's great years famously
>said. Honda is a rifle shot competitor which takes as it's prime
>directive "being a company society wants to have exist".
Yes, well, I support and admire Honda for their vision, but even so,
as a skeptic or cynic or something, and this is a marketing and
finance perspective, they simply target the highest-return segments.
But note there have been and are exceptions, the NSX being the
biggest, but I wonder if the S2000 turns a profit, either. Doubt it.
A V8 would come in under the same heading, only it would probably cost
much more.
If Honda ever decides to open a product branch of $100k++ automobiles,
that would justify the V8. No straight 5's or V10's, please, it just
ain't natural! And not having a straight six, I can't see them jumping
to a V12. Just as well. Unless they want to get into $200k++.
Y'know, something for Paris Hilton to drive to the store to pick up
some cookies, and run out of gas in on the way home.
J. >> Stay informed about: How are these Japanese luxury brands doing these days? |
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External
Since: Jul 26, 2003
Posts: 26
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:28 am
Post subject: Re: How are these Japanese luxury brands doing these days? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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I think the lack of Lexus cars in Europe is due to the fact that European
drivers are interested in the driving and not the gadgets as we Americans
are. Lexus is built for the American market that wants comfort and
reliability at the expense of driving fun.
"norak" <k.norak.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1175312530.944638.171540@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> Lexus has the highest sales in the US, higher than any other luxury
> car maker, but in Europe people don't tend to like Lexus. It's hard to
> know why, but in Europe automotive tastes seem to differ
> significantly. E.g. virtually everyone in Continental Europe drives
> with manual transmission and if you don't people look down on you. In
> America most drive automatics. Lexuses tend to be more reliable and
> refined than other luxury cars, so perhaps the difference in sales
> reflect American consumers' utilitarianism and individualism versus
> the European consumers' snobbery.
>
> See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexus
> >> Stay informed about: How are these Japanese luxury brands doing these days? |
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External
Since: Feb 13, 2005
Posts: 157
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 10:08 am
Post subject: Re: How are these Japanese luxury brands doing these days? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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External
Since: Jan 11, 2006
Posts: 23
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 12:20 am
Post subject: Re: How are these Japanese luxury brands doing these days? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On 7 Apr 2007 10:08:29 -0700, "mcbrue" <mcbrue DeleteThis @aol.com> wrote:
>Really the European cars have gadgets that work and do right. The
>Japanese gadgets are just not the same - they just don't do right!
>Engineering for show, not go is the Japanese moto from Mr Moto.
I've heard BMW's i-Drive is very popular. >> Stay informed about: How are these Japanese luxury brands doing these days? |
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External
Since: Jul 31, 2005
Posts: 23
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 6:38 pm
Post subject: Re: How are these Japanese luxury brands doing these days? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Apr 8, 12:20 am, Gordon McGrew <gmcg....TakeThisOut@mindspring.com> wrote:
> On 7 Apr 2007 10:08:29 -0700, "mcbrue" <mcb....TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >Really the European cars have gadgets that work and do right. The
> >Japanese gadgets are just not the same - they just don't do right!
> >Engineering for show, not go is the Japanese moto from Mr Moto.
>
> I've heard BMW's i-Drive is very popular.
If I compare Lexus (with IS,ES,RX,GS,LS,SC,LX and GX series), Acura
(EL,TL,RL,TSX,MDX,RDX), or Infiniti (M, G, FX and Qx series) with
Mercedes Benz (MB), MB has much more products to offer.
There are A,B,C,E,S,SLK,SL,CLK,CL,SLR,CLS,ML and G series car that MB
offers, in comparison to the Japanese luxury brands. >> Stay informed about: How are these Japanese luxury brands doing these days? |
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External
Since: Jan 19, 2007
Posts: 61
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 12:04 am
Post subject: Re: How are these Japanese luxury brands doing these days? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On 14 Apr 2007 18:38:57 -0700, aniramca DeleteThis @yahoo.com graced this
newsgroup with:
>On Apr 8, 12:20 am, Gordon McGrew <gmcg... DeleteThis @mindspring.com> wrote:
>> On 7 Apr 2007 10:08:29 -0700, "mcbrue" <mcb... DeleteThis @aol.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Really the European cars have gadgets that work and do right. The
>> >Japanese gadgets are just not the same - they just don't do right!
>> >Engineering for show, not go is the Japanese moto from Mr Moto.
>>
>> I've heard BMW's i-Drive is very popular.
>
>If I compare Lexus (with IS,ES,RX,GS,LS,SC,LX and GX series), Acura
>(EL,TL,RL,TSX,MDX,RDX), or Infiniti (M, G, FX and Qx series) with
>Mercedes Benz (MB), MB has much more products to offer.
>There are A,B,C,E,S,SLK,SL,CLK,CL,SLR,CLS,ML and G series car that MB
>offers, in comparison to the Japanese luxury brands.
you're so right. Run out a buy one. >> Stay informed about: How are these Japanese luxury brands doing these days? |
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