Another Idiot Subaru Problem

Hi Al.

On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 13:30:24 GMT, Al <no.spam.DeleteThis@wanted.com> wrote:

>It's been in the 20's for quite a while in the NE. On Sunday mornings, I
>go out to get the Sunday newspaper. When it's that cold, I drive;
>normally I walk the three blocks. So, after I buy the paper and get back
>into the Subbie ('03 Outback 3.0 engine) to drive home, it won't start
>easily. I have to crank and get a lot of gasoline smell around the car
>and then it slowly coughs to life. I fixed the problem by driving the
>car long enough to get the temp gauge moving after I leave the hose;
>then it starts OK. BTW, I don't have this problem with the '91 Jeep.

Probably cold-start related. Coolant still cold, so cold-start
injector fires, causing a "flooded" condition. My old Legacy Turbo
does this sometimes.
Try holding the accelerator down while cranking; I think the ECU will
interpret this as a "CLEAR FLOOD" (or something like that) signal, and
stop injecting fuel until it fires up. See if there isn't some mention
of this in your owners manual.
Hope this proves helpful.

ByeBye! S.

Steve Jernigan KG0MB
Laboratory Manager
Microelectronics Research
University of Colorado
(719) 262-3101
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In article <twaMh.18849$Hb2.1915@trndny02>, "bgd" <bgd73.RemoveThis@verizon.net>
wrote:

> Get it fixed if your an idiot.

Learn some English...."your" should be "you're"

> I hope they raise the gas guzzling tax on your jeep. Idiot.

For the 16 years I've had it, it's more than paid for itself. They can
double the gas tax and it will still cost me a lot less than just the
sales tax on a new vehicle.

Idiots buy a new vehicle every few years because they're "tired of it."

> I tell you about the time my grandma in her nieve retirement went through
> three brand new jeep fires in 1991?

Again..."nieve" should be "naive." Are you a native speaker?

> 80 grand in jeeps before dear old dad whipped out a can of holy
> whoopass....
> I thought folks who knew vehicles had to keep an eye on elderly only...
> But no. Theres folks like you declaring a mechanical problem "idiot."
> Find a mechanic who isn't one, idiot. And pay the big bill like the rest of
> us idiots.

Again..."Theres" should be "There are."



Al
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Al wrote:
> It's been in the 20's for quite a while in the NE. On Sunday mornings, I
> go out to get the Sunday newspaper. When it's that cold, I drive;
> normally I walk the three blocks. So, after I buy the paper and get back
> into the Subbie ('03 Outback 3.0 engine) to drive home, it won't start
> easily. I have to crank and get a lot of gasoline smell around the car
> and then it slowly coughs to life. I fixed the problem by driving the
> car long enough to get the temp gauge moving after I leave the hose;
> then it starts OK. BTW, I don't have this problem with the '91 Jeep.

I have read of other folks having hard 'second start' problems, as in
after moving a car out of the garage for a short time then trying to
start it to park back in the original spot. Your complaint seems
similar. It may be a 'problem' or just the nature of the beast.
And truthfully, comparing to an older non-OBDII vehicle may not be fair.

Carl


--
to reply, change ( .not) to ( .net)
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On Wed, 21 Mar 2007 13:30:24 GMT, Al <no.spam.TakeThisOut@wanted.com> wrote:

>It's been in the 20's for quite a while in the NE. On Sunday mornings, I
>go out to get the Sunday newspaper. When it's that cold, I drive;
>normally I walk the three blocks. So, after I buy the paper and get back
>into the Subbie ('03 Outback 3.0 engine) to drive home, it won't start
>easily. I have to crank and get a lot of gasoline smell around the car
>and then it slowly coughs to life. I fixed the problem by driving the
>car long enough to get the temp gauge moving after I leave the hose;
>then it starts OK. BTW, I don't have this problem with the '91 Jeep.

**Go to google groups and alt.autos.subaru and search "gas fumes in
cabin in cold weather," there's a thread on it that might be of some
help.

kaboomie
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In article <QxhMh.15219$uo3.14006@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net>,
Carl 1 Lucky Texan <alckytxn.DeleteThis@swbell.not> wrote:

> Al wrote:
> > It's been in the 20's for quite a while in the NE. On Sunday mornings, I
> > go out to get the Sunday newspaper. When it's that cold, I drive;
> > normally I walk the three blocks. So, after I buy the paper and get back
> > into the Subbie ('03 Outback 3.0 engine) to drive home, it won't start
> > easily. I have to crank and get a lot of gasoline smell around the car
> > and then it slowly coughs to life. I fixed the problem by driving the
> > car long enough to get the temp gauge moving after I leave the hose;
> > then it starts OK. BTW, I don't have this problem with the '91 Jeep.
>
> I have read of other folks having hard 'second start' problems, as in
> after moving a car out of the garage for a short time then trying to
> start it to park back in the original spot. Your complaint seems
> similar. It may be a 'problem' or just the nature of the beast.
> And truthfully, comparing to an older non-OBDII vehicle may not be fair.
>
> Carl

So OBDII is not an improvement in usability? It seems to me that the
more electronic gadgets we get in our lives, the more trouble we have
dealing with them. Yes, the Jeep has fuel injection too, so what's the
backwark step?

Al
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Al wrote:
>
> So OBDII is not an improvement in usability? It seems to me that the
> more electronic gadgets we get in our lives, the more trouble we have
> dealing with them.

I see OBDII as an awesome troubleshooting tool.

_If_ you understand the limitations and aren't afraid of technology...
 >> Stay informed about: Another Idiot Subaru Problem 

I am surprized to see that someone as bitter as bgd even posts here. It
should be illegal,

As for your problem: It seems that you are having a leaky or sticky
injector and that the engine is flooding. To prove this, next time it
happens, floor the gas pedal and start the engine. Keeping the gas
pedal to the bottom, cuts the fuel fed to the engine. If the engine
starts like that, now you have a clue as where to start looking.

Good luck!

Al wrote:

> It's been in the 20's for quite a while in the NE. On Sunday mornings, I
> go out to get the Sunday newspaper. When it's that cold, I drive;
> normally I walk the three blocks. So, after I buy the paper and get back
> into the Subbie ('03 Outback 3.0 engine) to drive home, it won't start
> easily. I have to crank and get a lot of gasoline smell around the car
> and then it slowly coughs to life. I fixed the problem by driving the
> car long enough to get the temp gauge moving after I leave the hose;
> then it starts OK. BTW, I don't have this problem with the '91 Jeep.
 >> Stay informed about: Another Idiot Subaru Problem 

In article <IjxMh.16508$bb1.16363@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net>,
B A R R Y <beech23pilot RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:

> Al wrote:
> >
> > So OBDII is not an improvement in usability? It seems to me that the
> > more electronic gadgets we get in our lives, the more trouble we have
> > dealing with them.
>
> I see OBDII as an awesome troubleshooting tool.
>
> _If_ you understand the limitations and aren't afraid of technology...

In the late 50's there was a mechanic my father used, who could
diagnose a problem with a long screwdriver. How? He would put the tip
against whatever he thought was defective and the handle against his
ear. He could tell by the sound the gizmo made if was defective or not.
He would start out by placing the tip against the engine block and then
going to where he thought the problem was. Then again, today you can't
hear the electrons, can you? And no, he never got his ear caught in the
belt

In the 70's I worked on a gov't project which tried to do diagnostics on
military vehicles by matching the sounds they made to sound templates of
good running vehicles. Trouble is, it it worked well only when one gizmo
was defective. And that was before computers. I wonder if that could be
made to work now?

Al
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HI Al!

On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 20:18:56 GMT, Al <no.spam.TakeThisOut@wanted.com> wrote:


>In the late 50's there was a mechanic my father used, who could
>diagnose a problem with a long screwdriver. How? He would put the tip
>against whatever he thought was defective and the handle against his
>ear. He could tell by the sound the gizmo made if was defective or not.
>He would start out by placing the tip against the engine block and then
>going to where he thought the problem was. Then again, today you can't
>hear the electrons, can you? And no, he never got his ear caught in the
>belt

A mechanics stethoscope is a vital part of any savvy tech's tool kit.
And while you can't here electrons per se, you _can_ hear the results
they produce as they do their thing; injectors firing, relays
opening/closing, motors running, etc.

>In the 70's I worked on a gov't project which tried to do diagnostics on
>military vehicles by matching the sounds they made to sound templates of
>good running vehicles. Trouble is, it it worked well only when one gizmo
>was defective. And that was before computers. I wonder if that could be
>made to work now?

You bet. The technique is called acoustic signature analysis. Combined
with fast DSP (digital signal processing) processors, it is used
extensively on everything from train wheels to rocket engines. I'd
imagine auto manufacturers use it during prototype testing, but AFAIK
the technology hasn't made it into a production vehicle. Yet.

ByeBye! S.
Steve Jernigan KG0MB
Laboratory Manager
Microelectronics Research
University of Colorado
(719) 262-3101
 >> Stay informed about: Another Idiot Subaru Problem 

In article <2d1l03lloou304vfc8k8lnkd81neb92g7h.TakeThisOut@4ax.com>,
S <jernigan.TakeThisOut@chester.uccs.edu> wrote:

> HI Al!
>
> On Thu, 22 Mar 2007 20:18:56 GMT, Al <no.spam.TakeThisOut@wanted.com> wrote:
>
>
> >In the late 50's there was a mechanic my father used, who could
> >diagnose a problem with a long screwdriver. How? He would put the tip
> >against whatever he thought was defective and the handle against his
> >ear. He could tell by the sound the gizmo made if was defective or not.
> >He would start out by placing the tip against the engine block and then
> >going to where he thought the problem was. Then again, today you can't
> >hear the electrons, can you? And no, he never got his ear caught in the
> >belt
>
> A mechanics stethoscope is a vital part of any savvy tech's tool kit.
> And while you can't here electrons per se, you _can_ hear the results
> they produce as they do their thing; injectors firing, relays
> opening/closing, motors running, etc.
>
> >In the 70's I worked on a gov't project which tried to do diagnostics on
> >military vehicles by matching the sounds they made to sound templates of
> >good running vehicles. Trouble is, it it worked well only when one gizmo
> >was defective. And that was before computers. I wonder if that could be
> >made to work now?
>
> You bet. The technique is called acoustic signature analysis. Combined
> with fast DSP (digital signal processing) processors, it is used
> extensively on everything from train wheels to rocket engines. I'd
> imagine auto manufacturers use it during prototype testing, but AFAIK
> the technology hasn't made it into a production vehicle. Yet.
>
> ByeBye! S.
> Steve Jernigan KG0MB
> Laboratory Manager
> Microelectronics Research
> University of Colorado
> (719) 262-3101

I think a 6 cyl. engine, for example, has an acoustic signature that is
much more compliated that that of a train wheel. On my morning walk, I
pass by a commuter train. Even I can tell when a wheel is bad; I
wouldn't be surprised if they had a hot box sooner or later.

Al
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Hi!

I encountered your problem before with my Pontiac and so I checked on the engine, radiator and http://www.coldairintakedirect.com/makes/pontiac.html (cold air intake). I wasn't able to determine the problem so finally. I decided to bring it to a repair shop.

I suggest that you consult an expert or bring it to the nearest mechanic.

Ciao!
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