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Next: Dealer says OEM part Doesn't exists! WTF!?
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Since: Jun 09, 2004 Posts: 46
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:51 pm
Post subject: Help, please--non-Toyota auto--no response on alt.autos.gm Archived from groups: alt>autos>toyota (more info?)
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I posted this on alt.autos.gm more than a day ago and have not received a
response yet. I am hoping that I am overlooking something easy or obvious.
I know there are some folks on this board with great minds and excellent
troubleshooting techniques (not to mention knowledge) so I was thinking
maybe someone here would have my miracle tip...
I have a 94 Geo Metro that had a bad switch for the interior (ventilation)
fan
last year. The switch had broken the clasps that held it on and come apart.
I glued it, and it worked well for a year, when the glue I used (wrong kind)
dissolved, probably from the grease and leftover WD-40 I had used to clean
the old
switch.
This time I decided to replace the "lever assembly 8.849" (M part #
30007398 (which includes the blower switch and the receptacle for it
including new clasps so I don't have to glue it in again) and it went in
easily. The fan now works, but somehow in all the digging around to get to
it, I hosed a cable or something somewhere, because the A/C no longer comes
on.
I checked the fuses (There wasn't one for AC, but there was one labeled ACC,
which I thought was accessory, so I checked all of them.) They are all fine.
Even the ones under the hood. There is a little light inside the pushbutton
that turns the AC on or off, that stays dark too.
One BIG clue is that the little bulb which lights up the lever control panel
when the headlights are turned on is also not coming on, and its cable joins
the one from the AC switch. Apparently the circuit those two things are on
is open. I did find a couple plastic connector plugs along the cable, but
they seemed to be very tightly connected. I could not get them apart, so I
tried pushing them together (connected) firmly, they didn't budge either way
so I more or less doubt it was a case of accidentally unplugging the cable
when I was removing the lever assembly.
I thought a relay might be bad, but that shouldn't stop the control panel
light from coming on, it wouldn't be on a relay as it comes on with the
headlights.
I am at a loss as to what to check next. I can't follow that cable very far
back towards the firewall without disassembling the whole dash, and I'm not
sure I want to do that, it's beyond my experience and I don't want to risk
breaking something else.
Any ideas on what I should check next? >> Stay informed about: Help, please--non-Toyota auto--no response on alt.autos.gm |
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Since: Jun 02, 2006 Posts: 4627
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Help, please--non-Toyota auto--no response on alt.autos.gm [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Ernie Sty" <fake_email.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:s_ednZRmZqGpJwzZnZ2dnUVZ_v2dnZ2d@giganews.com...
>I posted this on alt.autos.gm more than a day ago and have not received a
>response yet. I am hoping that I am overlooking something easy or obvious.
>I know there are some folks on this board with great minds and excellent
>troubleshooting techniques (not to mention knowledge) so I was thinking
>maybe someone here would have my miracle tip...
>
> I have a 94 Geo Metro that had a bad switch for the interior (ventilation)
> fan
> last year. The switch had broken the clasps that held it on and come
> apart.
> I glued it, and it worked well for a year, when the glue I used (wrong
> kind)
> dissolved, probably from the grease and leftover WD-40 I had used to clean
> the old
> switch.
>
> This time I decided to replace the "lever assembly 8.849" (M part #
> 30007398 (which includes the blower switch and the receptacle for it
> including new clasps so I don't have to glue it in again) and it went in
> easily. The fan now works, but somehow in all the digging around to get
> to
> it, I hosed a cable or something somewhere, because the A/C no longer
> comes
> on.
>
> I checked the fuses (There wasn't one for AC, but there was one labeled
> ACC,
> which I thought was accessory, so I checked all of them.) They are all
> fine.
> Even the ones under the hood. There is a little light inside the
> pushbutton
> that turns the AC on or off, that stays dark too.
>
> One BIG clue is that the little bulb which lights up the lever control
> panel
> when the headlights are turned on is also not coming on, and its cable
> joins
> the one from the AC switch. Apparently the circuit those two things are
> on
> is open. I did find a couple plastic connector plugs along the cable, but
> they seemed to be very tightly connected. I could not get them apart, so
> I
> tried pushing them together (connected) firmly, they didn't budge either
> way
> so I more or less doubt it was a case of accidentally unplugging the cable
> when I was removing the lever assembly.
>
> I thought a relay might be bad, but that shouldn't stop the control panel
> light from coming on, it wouldn't be on a relay as it comes on with the
> headlights.
>
> I am at a loss as to what to check next. I can't follow that cable very
> far
> back towards the firewall without disassembling the whole dash, and I'm
> not
> sure I want to do that, it's beyond my experience and I don't want to risk
> breaking something else.
>
> Any ideas on what I should check next?
>
First see if there is power coming to the switch. If there is no power to
the switch, then you have to check further back in the circuit. Check the
relays, fusible links, and circuit breakers under the hood.
--
Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply) >> Stay informed about: Help, please--non-Toyota auto--no response on alt.autos.gm |
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Since: Jun 09, 2004 Posts: 46
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 8:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Help, please--non-Toyota auto--no response on alt.autos.gm [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message
news:53b21$4491c7d9$44a4a10d$5896@msgid.meganewsservers.com...
>
> "Ernie Sty" <fake_email.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:s_ednZRmZqGpJwzZnZ2dnUVZ_v2dnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>I posted this on alt.autos.gm more than a day ago and have not received a
>>response yet. I am hoping that I am overlooking something easy or
>>obvious. I know there are some folks on this board with great minds and
>>excellent troubleshooting techniques (not to mention knowledge) so I was
>>thinking maybe someone here would have my miracle tip...
>>
>> I have a 94 Geo Metro that had a bad switch for the interior
>> (ventilation) fan
>> last year. The switch had broken the clasps that held it on and come
>> apart.
>> I glued it, and it worked well for a year, when the glue I used (wrong
>> kind)
>> dissolved, probably from the grease and leftover WD-40 I had used to
>> clean the old
>> switch.
>>
>> This time I decided to replace the "lever assembly 8.849" (M part #
>> 30007398 (which includes the blower switch and the receptacle for it
>> including new clasps so I don't have to glue it in again) and it went in
>> easily. The fan now works, but somehow in all the digging around to get
>> to
>> it, I hosed a cable or something somewhere, because the A/C no longer
>> comes
>> on.
>>
>> I checked the fuses (There wasn't one for AC, but there was one labeled
>> ACC,
>> which I thought was accessory, so I checked all of them.) They are all
>> fine.
>> Even the ones under the hood. There is a little light inside the
>> pushbutton
>> that turns the AC on or off, that stays dark too.
>>
>> One BIG clue is that the little bulb which lights up the lever control
>> panel
>> when the headlights are turned on is also not coming on, and its cable
>> joins
>> the one from the AC switch. Apparently the circuit those two things are
>> on
>> is open. I did find a couple plastic connector plugs along the cable,
>> but
>> they seemed to be very tightly connected. I could not get them apart, so
>> I
>> tried pushing them together (connected) firmly, they didn't budge either
>> way
>> so I more or less doubt it was a case of accidentally unplugging the
>> cable
>> when I was removing the lever assembly.
>>
>> I thought a relay might be bad, but that shouldn't stop the control panel
>> light from coming on, it wouldn't be on a relay as it comes on with the
>> headlights.
>>
>> I am at a loss as to what to check next. I can't follow that cable very
>> far
>> back towards the firewall without disassembling the whole dash, and I'm
>> not
>> sure I want to do that, it's beyond my experience and I don't want to
>> risk
>> breaking something else.
>>
>> Any ideas on what I should check next?
>>
>
> First see if there is power coming to the switch. If there is no power to
> the switch, then you have to check further back in the circuit. Check the
> relays, fusible links, and circuit breakers under the hood.
Thanks! >> Stay informed about: Help, please--non-Toyota auto--no response on alt.autos.gm |
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Since: Sep 07, 2005 Posts: 56
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:08 am
Post subject: Re: Help, please--non-Toyota auto--no response on alt.autos.gm [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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By chance is this related to the blower fan motor control?
My AC only operates if you first start the fan. When the fan is off, the AC
button will not light.
It occurred to me that perhaps you had somehow disconnected the fan power,
or some inter-lock system.
Good luck with this difficult electrical issue, and please advise on your
progress (that way we all learn).
- Jack >> Stay informed about: Help, please--non-Toyota auto--no response on alt.autos.gm |
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Since: Jun 09, 2004 Posts: 46
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 3:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Help, please--non-Toyota auto--no response on alt.autos.gm [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Ralph" <nospam.RemoveThis@thanks.com> wrote in message
news:44922ea5$1_1@news.cybersurf.net...
> By chance is this related to the blower fan motor control?
>
> My AC only operates if you first start the fan. When the fan is off, the
> AC button will not light.
>
> It occurred to me that perhaps you had somehow disconnected the fan power,
> or some inter-lock system.
>
> Good luck with this difficult electrical issue, and please advise on your
> progress (that way we all learn).
>
> - Jack
See my reply to Ray O. O don't think there's much to learn though. >> Stay informed about: Help, please--non-Toyota auto--no response on alt.autos.gm |
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Since: Jun 09, 2004 Posts: 46
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 3:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Help, please--non-Toyota auto--no response on alt.autos.gm [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message
news:53b21$4491c7d9$44a4a10d$5896@msgid.meganewsservers.com...
>
> "Ernie Sty" <fake_email.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:s_ednZRmZqGpJwzZnZ2dnUVZ_v2dnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>
>> Any ideas on what I should check next?
>>
>
> First see if there is power coming to the switch.
Geesh. I took Electronics I and II in my junior and senior year in high
school. If I learned anything in that class, it was what the teacher (Joe
Baker, a really cool instructor, I hope he's doing well) drilled into our
heads: 90% of the time in an electronic or electrical device, the problem is
the switch. It's a great rule of thumb, if one follows it!
What threw me off was the little light that lights up the control panel when
the headlights come on. It should always come on with the headlights
whether or not the AC is on, and it was the only thing on the same cable as
the AC switch but would not come on with the headlights.
After reading your suggestion, I disconnected the plug in order to remove
the AC on/off button and tested the contacts on the end coming from the
firewall. I measured 13.something volts on the two outside wires. It must
be the switch. But why doesn't the little control panel light come on? I
can see the filament is good. I wiggled it. It came on.
So the switch is bad. I could see where a solder blob had come unstuck from
the tiny circuit board in the switch. I'm trying to re-solder it but it's
damned difficult because it's so tiny. If I can get it to work for a while
that's good because it's getting really hot and muggy here, and my wife, who
drives the car, is starting to want a new one. I've ordered a new switch
anyway because even if my repair works I don't trust it to hold for long. >> Stay informed about: Help, please--non-Toyota auto--no response on alt.autos.gm |
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Since: Jun 02, 2006 Posts: 4627
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 3:44 pm
Post subject: Re: Help, please--non-Toyota auto--no response on alt.autos.gm [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Ernie Sty" <fake_email.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6MednQguTbB8jg7ZnZ2dnUVZ_qednZ2d@giganews.com...
>
> "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message
> news:53b21$4491c7d9$44a4a10d$5896@msgid.meganewsservers.com...
>>
>> "Ernie Sty" <fake_email.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:s_ednZRmZqGpJwzZnZ2dnUVZ_v2dnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
>>>
>>> Any ideas on what I should check next?
>>>
>>
>> First see if there is power coming to the switch.
>
> Geesh. I took Electronics I and II in my junior and senior year in high
> school. If I learned anything in that class, it was what the teacher (Joe
> Baker, a really cool instructor, I hope he's doing well) drilled into our
> heads: 90% of the time in an electronic or electrical device, the problem
> is the switch. It's a great rule of thumb, if one follows it!
>
> What threw me off was the little light that lights up the control panel
> when the headlights come on. It should always come on with the headlights
> whether or not the AC is on, and it was the only thing on the same cable
> as the AC switch but would not come on with the headlights.
>
> After reading your suggestion, I disconnected the plug in order to remove
> the AC on/off button and tested the contacts on the end coming from the
> firewall. I measured 13.something volts on the two outside wires. It
> must be the switch. But why doesn't the little control panel light come
> on? I can see the filament is good. I wiggled it. It came on.
>
> So the switch is bad. I could see where a solder blob had come unstuck
> from the tiny circuit board in the switch. I'm trying to re-solder it but
> it's damned difficult because it's so tiny. If I can get it to work for a
> while that's good because it's getting really hot and muggy here, and my
> wife, who drives the car, is starting to want a new one. I've ordered a
> new switch anyway because even if my repair works I don't trust it to hold
> for long.
It's good to hear you have it worked out.
The things that messes a lot of people up with automotive switches is that
they have lights in them so it is easy to assume that if the switch lights
up, then the switch is good. That assumption may not be valid, depending on
how the light get its power.
--
Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply) >> Stay informed about: Help, please--non-Toyota auto--no response on alt.autos.gm |
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Since: Sep 07, 2005 Posts: 56
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 11:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Help, please--non-Toyota auto--no response on alt.autos.gm [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Thanks for the results - glad you've tracked it down.
It is good that your high school teacher's advice still helps you.
By the way, if you buy a new switch, will it have the same defective
soldering?
I have found that if I need to 'remanufacture' a part that wasn't built
right, it's risky to buy a new
one - it might be just like the old one!
- Jack
>>>"So the switch is bad. I could see where a solder blob had come unstuck
>>>from
the tiny circuit board in the switch. I'm trying to re-solder it but it's
damned difficult because it's so tiny. If I can get it to work for a while
that's good because it's getting really hot and muggy here, and my wife, who
drives the car, is starting to want a new one. I've ordered a new switch
anyway because even if my repair works I don't trust it to hold for long.
"<<< >> Stay informed about: Help, please--non-Toyota auto--no response on alt.autos.gm |
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Since: Jun 09, 2004 Posts: 46
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 8:05 am
Post subject: Re: Help, please--non-Toyota auto--no response on alt.autos.gm [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message
news:d80a2$44931868$44a4a10d$16071@msgid.meganewsservers.com...
>
> "Ernie Sty" <fake_email DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:6MednQguTbB8jg7ZnZ2dnUVZ_qednZ2d@giganews.com...
>>
>> "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message
>> news:53b21$4491c7d9$44a4a10d$5896@msgid.meganewsservers.com...
>>>
>>> "Ernie Sty" <fake_email DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:s_ednZRmZqGpJwzZnZ2dnUVZ_v2dnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>
>>>>
>>>> Any ideas on what I should check next?
>>>>
>>>
>>> First see if there is power coming to the switch.
>>
>> Geesh. I took Electronics I and II in my junior and senior year in high
>> school. If I learned anything in that class, it was what the teacher
>> (Joe Baker, a really cool instructor, I hope he's doing well) drilled
>> into our heads: 90% of the time in an electronic or electrical device,
>> the problem is the switch. It's a great rule of thumb, if one follows
>> it!
>>
>> What threw me off was the little light that lights up the control panel
>> when the headlights come on. It should always come on with the
>> headlights whether or not the AC is on, and it was the only thing on the
>> same cable as the AC switch but would not come on with the headlights.
>>
>> After reading your suggestion, I disconnected the plug in order to remove
>> the AC on/off button and tested the contacts on the end coming from the
>> firewall. I measured 13.something volts on the two outside wires. It
>> must be the switch. But why doesn't the little control panel light come
>> on? I can see the filament is good. I wiggled it. It came on.
>>
>> So the switch is bad. I could see where a solder blob had come unstuck
>> from the tiny circuit board in the switch. I'm trying to re-solder it
>> but it's damned difficult because it's so tiny. If I can get it to work
>> for a while that's good because it's getting really hot and muggy here,
>> and my wife, who drives the car, is starting to want a new one. I've
>> ordered a new switch anyway because even if my repair works I don't trust
>> it to hold for long.
>
> It's good to hear you have it worked out.
>
> The things that messes a lot of people up with automotive switches is that
> they have lights in them so it is easy to assume that if the switch lights
> up, then the switch is good. That assumption may not be valid, depending
> on how the light get its power.
> --
>
> Ray O
> (correct punctuation to reply)
> >> Stay informed about: Help, please--non-Toyota auto--no response on alt.autos.gm |
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Since: Jun 09, 2004 Posts: 46
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 8:06 am
Post subject: Re: Help, please--non-Toyota auto--no response on alt.autos.gm [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message
news:d80a2$44931868$44a4a10d$16071@msgid.meganewsservers.com...
>
> It's good to hear you have it worked out.
>
> The things that messes a lot of people up with automotive switches is that
> they have lights in them so it is easy to assume that if the switch lights
> up, then the switch is good. That assumption may not be valid, depending
> on how the light get its power.
> --
>
> Ray O
> (correct punctuation to reply)
Thanks! Makes good sense. >> Stay informed about: Help, please--non-Toyota auto--no response on alt.autos.gm |
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Since: Jun 09, 2004 Posts: 46
|
(Msg. 11) Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 8:13 am
Post subject: Re: Help, please--non-Toyota auto--no response on alt.autos.gm [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Ralph" <nospam.DeleteThis@thanks.com> wrote in message
news:44937df3_1@news.cybersurf.net...
>
> Thanks for the results - glad you've tracked it down.
> It is good that your high school teacher's advice still helps you.
> By the way, if you buy a new switch, will it have the same defective
> soldering?
> I have found that if I need to 'remanufacture' a part that wasn't built
> right, it's risky to buy a new
> one - it might be just like the old one!
> - Jack
>
>
>>>>"So the switch is bad. I could see where a solder blob had come unstuck
>>>>from
> the tiny circuit board in the switch. I'm trying to re-solder it but it's
> damned difficult because it's so tiny. If I can get it to work for a
> while
> that's good because it's getting really hot and muggy here, and my wife,
> who
> drives the car, is starting to want a new one. I've ordered a new switch
> anyway because even if my repair works I don't trust it to hold for long.
You may be right. I'm going to cancel the order and keep the repaired
switch (which I tested and it works fine.) IF it breaks again, then I can
try getting a new one--fifty FREAKIN' dollars for thirty-five cents worth of
switch. That's online (with shipping.)
The dealer would probably want over a hundred, though, so online is much
cheaper even with shipping. I get repairs I can't do myself done at that
dealership, because though their prices are sky-high, I've never had a
problem or any reason to suspect that they ripped me off, unlike the other
places I've been to. I think they have a good rep too, because despite
their higher prices than other dealership mechanics in the area, they're
always jammed with work. >> Stay informed about: Help, please--non-Toyota auto--no response on alt.autos.gm |
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