HELP: 93 Toyota Corolla vibration problem!

<jonb55198.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a49f4576-d8a5-46b9-a40f-f8cb247627ba@p25g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 19, 7:51 am, " krp" <krp24....TakeThisOut@verizon.net> wrote:
>> Here is what strikes me. He just got 4 new tires. It is hitting only
>> ONE
>> side of the car. (Right front). It was something that a worker hot to MAKE
>> sales would likely not see. Suggest that obvious BRAKE things hanging pads
>> and blued rotors weren't present. So it is a process of elimination. If I
>> assume even marginal competence of the tire store folks - something they'd
>> NOT necessarily pick up on would be a suspension part or CV joint.
>
> Good point. But wouldn't the bad CV likely make a clicking sound
> during turns and cause vibration nearly always on the highway?
>

Bad point. A bad CV joint WOULD NOT cause the brakes to lock up.
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<jonb55198 RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
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> On Apr 8, 12:21 pm, jonb55... RemoveThis @yahoo.com wrote:
>> I have a 1993ToyotaCorollawith 265k miles on it. There is a
>> vibration that has the following symptoms:
> <snip>
>
> Well, I did replace the calipers 3k ago. Could it be that the
> passenger-front one is bad? They were rebuilds after all... and that
> is the side that is heating up...


Lets start from the begining. If I understand correctly you replaced the
front calipers first. Why ? Were the brakes acting up before you replaced the
calipers. You then replaced the brake hoses and this did not correct the
problem. The right front brake is the one getting hot, correct ? Are you
doing the work or are you taking it to a shop ?
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"Jeff Strickland" <crwlr.RemoveThis@verizon.net> wrote in message
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>
> "N8N" <njnagel.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:d0676d9d-a646-4780-8820-6c2c55c0fbb7@p39g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 21, 10:29 am, jonb55....RemoveThis@yahoo.com wrote:
>> On Apr 19, 7:52 am, " krp" <krp24....RemoveThis@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>> > And so the rotor will be a pretty MIDNIGHT BLUE. Do you think the guys in
>> > the tire store would likely miss that?
>>
>> Well, the rotor was bluing, which is why i replaced them about 1000
>> miles ago. But, I think that is the symptom and not the disease.
>> What can be causing the dragging? could a bad booster cause it?
>
> If it's only one wheel, I'd strongly suspect the hose.

Whcih was already replaced and had no affect on the problem.


Second choice
> would be frozen up mounting hardware causing a single piston caliper
> not to float freely.

Or two problems combined. It is possible that the left front caliper is
seized up AND the master cylinder pushrod misadjusted. This would put all the
pressure on the right front caliper.


A booster, master cylinder, or pushrod
> adjustment issue would show up on at least two if not all four wheels.
>
> nate
>
> <JS>
> I agree with N8. Since the claim is that only one corner is affected, I'd go
> with a failure that is local to only that corner, not a failure that leads
> to all four corners.

Both fronts should apply together so it is possible that one front brake IS
NOT applying.

>
> Having said that, the rear brakes are drum type, and if they were
> maladjusted (too loose), then they could be held partially activated and you
> would never know. This would tend to suggest the master cylinder. The linked
> rear brake would be the diagonal corner, by the way.

I don't believe Toyota uses a diagonal braking system.


>
> I'd be looking at the local problems though before I looked at systemic
> problems.
>
>
> </JS>
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"Mike" <mik RemoveThis @localnet.com> wrote in message
news:0E3Pj.1924$Cn4.1883@news02.roc.ny...

>>
>> <JS>
>> I agree with N8. Since the claim is that only one corner is affected, I'd
>> go with a failure that is local to only that corner, not a failure that
>> leads to all four corners.
>
> Both fronts should apply together so it is possible that one front brake
> IS NOT applying.
>

That would create a pull to the side that is applying when the brakes were
applied. If the brakes were being applied unevenly, then a pull would occur.
If the brakes were applied evenly but released unevenly, then the result
would be rapid wear and high heat on the side that was dragging.




>>
>> Having said that, the rear brakes are drum type, and if they were
>> maladjusted (too loose), then they could be held partially activated and
>> you would never know. This would tend to suggest the master cylinder. The
>> linked rear brake would be the diagonal corner, by the way.
>
> I don't believe Toyota uses a diagonal braking system.
>
>

I don't know that they do or not. I suspect they do. Diagonal braking is a
safety thing. The question is not if Toyota uses it, but rather if anybody
uses it.

Either way, I'd be looking at local issues relative to the one corner before
I'd be looking to systemic issues.
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<jonb55198 RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
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>> Replace both front brake hoses, replace the brake fluid, and bleed the
>> brakes.
>
> Ray, I had them do this. The problem still persists. Could it be a
> brake booster problem?

I read through most of the posts before responding.

It is very unlikely that a master cylinder is causing the problem, and it is
unlikely that a misadjusted push rod is causing the problem unless someone
messed with the master cylinder or pushrod.

It is possible, but not likely that a bad wheel bearing is causing the
problem. Wheel bearings generally make a lot of noise before getting bad
enough to actually cause a problem.

A wheel or tire that is out of round either laterally or radially will cause
a vibration, but not likely that the vibration will come and go and it will
not make the wheel hot to the touch or bind the brakes so that is not high
on my list.

A bad CV joint will make noise, cause pulling, or fling grease all over the
undercarriage before it causes an intermittent vibration and will not make
the wheel hot to the touch or bind the brakes.

If replacing the calipers did not change the problem, I would have guessed a
bad brake hose.

I read that you are replacing the front calipers, make sure that the slides
are free and coated with disc brake grease or anti-seize.

Where are you located?
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)
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<jonb55198.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
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>> Replace both front brake hoses, replace the brake fluid, and bleed the
>> brakes.

> Ray, I had them do this. The problem still persists. Could it be a
> brake booster problem?

Our resident Toyota resident lashed out at me for saying that was the
LEAST likely culprit. Because this is coming in snippets as opposed to a
full story, I have to work with SOME assumptions. Among them being that with
new tires that the rotors did NOT appear discolored or gouged, there was
nothing apparent about the pads. Perhaps giving credit where it isn't due -
that a competent dynamic balance was done. Next stage would be to have the
rotors MIC'd just to be sure they are round in both planes. Look at the
spindle closely. If the spindle is clean, have somebody check out the CV
joint and shaft.
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<jonb55198.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
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>> 1. Bent wheel.
> The tire shop showed me how the wheels turn on a machine. There is a
> small bit of run-out. But it was slight. Also, wouldn't run out
> cause a constant vibration?

No not necessarily. What size wheels are on it? The smaller the more
even a slight out of round can act up. Usually consistant at certain speeds.
A 14" rim is more sensitive than a 16.

>> 2. Bad wheel balance.
> The rebalanced when they put new tires on under waranty. The
> vibration still intermitently.

I'd look at the CV and suspension parts.

>> 3. Bad bearing.
> My mechanic says that when a bearing is shot, you can wobble the wheel
> when it is on the lift by pulling on it. The wheel didn't exhibit
> this behavior.

Yep that's mostly true.

>> 4. Bad rotor or worn spindle.

> Rotors are 3k old. Never turned before.

Okay - we're getting back to the CV again.

>> 5. Suspension parts. (there are several high failure parts on thecorolla)

> Mechanic says he checked thoroughly through all of them...

Did he check the CV?
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<jonb55198.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:7c60f0bb-002b-4ef2-998d-a3fea47ec225@c19g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 19, 7:52 am, " krp" <krp24....DeleteThis@verizon.net> wrote:
>> And so the rotor will be a pretty MIDNIGHT BLUE. Do you think the guys
>> in
>> the tire store would likely miss that?
>
> Well, the rotor was bluing, which is why i replaced them about 1000
> miles ago. But, I think that is the symptom and not the disease.
> What can be causing the dragging? could a bad booster cause it?

Did you replace the calipers? Check the pistons for pitting? Sometimes
an improperly installed o-ring on the caliper pistons can cause intermittent
problems.
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"N8N" <njnagel.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d0676d9d-a646-4780-8820-6c2c55c0fbb7@p39g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 21, 10:29 am, jonb55....DeleteThis@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Apr 19, 7:52 am, " krp" <krp24....DeleteThis@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > And so the rotor will be a pretty MIDNIGHT BLUE. Do you think the guys
> > in
> > the tire store would likely miss that?
>
> Well, the rotor was bluing, which is why i replaced them about 1000
> miles ago. But, I think that is the symptom and not the disease.
> What can be causing the dragging? could a bad booster cause it?

If it's only one wheel, I'd strongly suspect the hose. Second choice
would be frozen up mounting hardware causing a single piston caliper
not to float freely. A booster, master cylinder, or pushrod
adjustment issue would show up on at least two if not all four wheels.

He checked the hose. That's not it.
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"Jeff Strickland" <crwlr.DeleteThis@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:WL2Pj.6319$pH4.2470@trnddc06...
>
> "N8N" <njnagel.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:d0676d9d-a646-4780-8820-6c2c55c0fbb7@p39g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 21, 10:29 am, jonb55....DeleteThis@yahoo.com wrote:
>> On Apr 19, 7:52 am, " krp" <krp24....DeleteThis@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>> > And so the rotor will be a pretty MIDNIGHT BLUE. Do you think the guys
>> > in
>> > the tire store would likely miss that?
>>
>> Well, the rotor was bluing, which is why i replaced them about 1000
>> miles ago. But, I think that is the symptom and not the disease.
>> What can be causing the dragging? could a bad booster cause it?
>
> If it's only one wheel, I'd strongly suspect the hose. Second choice
> would be frozen up mounting hardware causing a single piston caliper
> not to float freely. A booster, master cylinder, or pushrod
> adjustment issue would show up on at least two if not all four wheels.
>
> nate
>
> <JS>
> I agree with N8. Since the claim is that only one corner is affected, I'd
> go with a failure that is local to only that corner, not a failure that
> leads to all four corners.

Did you note he checked that?
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"N8N" <njnagel RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3bb1b9e4-88a0-4239-9749-6bb6f5183358@b5g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > And so the rotor will be a pretty MIDNIGHT BLUE. Do you think the guys
> > > in
> > > the tire store would likely miss that?
>
> > Well, the rotor was bluing, which is why i replaced them about 1000
> > miles ago. But, I think that is the symptom and not the disease.
> > What can be causing the dragging? could a bad booster cause it?
>
> If it's only one wheel, I'd strongly suspect the hose. Second choice
> would be frozen up mounting hardware causing a single piston caliper
> not to float freely. A booster, master cylinder, or pushrod
> adjustment issue would show up on at least two if not all four wheels.
>
> nate
>
> <JS>
> I agree with N8. Since the claim is that only one corner is affected, I'd
> go
> with a failure that is local to only that corner, not a failure that leads
> to all four corners.
>
> Having said that, the rear brakes are drum type, and if they were
> maladjusted (too loose), then they could be held partially activated and
> you
> would never know. This would tend to suggest the master cylinder. The
> linked
> rear brake would be the diagonal corner, by the way.
>
> I'd be looking at the local problems though before I looked at systemic
> problems.
>
> </JS>


Good point, but that would also imply that the self-adjusting hardware
was frozen up on at least one rear wheel. Not impossible, but would
imply two simultaneous problems. That said, it might not be a bad
idea to check anyway, since the OP has apparently tried all the
obvious stuff.
======

Did you see the part where he said he REPLACED the hoses?
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"jim" <"sjedgingN0sp"@m@mwt.net> wrote in message
news:1208787825_340@isp.n...
>> > Replace both front brake hoses, replace the brake fluid, and bleed the
>> > brakes.
>>
>> Ray, I had them do this. The problem still persists. Could it be a
>> brake booster problem?
>
> Yes it could if the problem is on both sides. If I recall you said one
> wheel is getting hot the other isn't. that seems to make it pretty clear
> that the brakes are dragging on that one side. It is unlikely that the
> wheel bearing is the cause of the hot wheel after 5k miles a bearing
> getting hot would be seized by now. So something is wrong with the brakes
> on that side. Maybe time to have another mechanic look at it.


From the description it COULD be the caliper, BUT I would look at the CV
joint. A bad CV could cause the wheel to build heat. Again it is what is
most likely. At this point I'd pull the caliper apart first. Look for
contaminants especially by the pistons. You may wish to put kits in both
calipers. Make sure it is BALANCED. There is also - I THINK - not being a
Toyota expert - a proportioning valve somewhere right/left. If the left
side is not doing its job - the right works double time.
So you can't ignore the other side. Could be that the left caliper isn't
working at all or poorly.
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<jonb55198.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3d3a77e7-3946-4eac-aacf-932f058ec6c2@h1g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 19, 7:43 am, " krp" <krp24....DeleteThis@verizon.net> wrote:
>> some stuff...
>
> Well, at one point like the rotors were bluing like 1000 miles ago and
> I replaced them. The hoses were replaced 3 days ago, this did not fix
> it either. The calipers are 3k old. Could it be the brake booster
> since the problem is intermitten and only shows up once in a while?
>
> Also, could the vibration be caused by the hot wheel overheating the
> tire? How warped would a wheel have to be to cause this? There is
> only vibration when the brakes are dragging. The other day i drove to
> the airport (60 miles with no traffic at 3AM) and it only did it once
> for 10 miles. I did not have to use my brakes at all for the entire
> highway portion of the trip, but it still started to drag and then
> vibrate half way into the trip. Please notice that i said it drags
> THEN vibrates. You can feel that you need more gas pedal effort to
> move the car and then the vibration starts gradually shortly
> thereafter and builds up in intensity. Does this extra info help you?

It could be the proportioning valve it could be the master cylinder, and it
still can be a CV joint. It is also possible that the new caliper was
rebuilt wrong.
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